John Deere X585 Cracked Engine Block

[WranglerBowman]

I have a John Deere X585 that I picked up knowing it had issues but figured they wouldn't be too hard to fix (fuel sending unit, power steering, missing parts). I went to drain the oil yesterday only to discover that there wasn't a drop of oil in the engine at all which had a lot of bad thoughts running through my head. I know the engine is not seized as it turns over but never starts. I poured a little bit of oil into the oil filler inlet and noticed that oil was leaking from the bottom of engine. After careful inspection I found that there is a hairline fracture on the very bottom of the engine block. The engine is a Kawasaki 745cc twin cylinder engine. I wanted to find out what people's opinions are on repairing this crack which is about 3 inches long, I'll add some pics later so you can see where it is. I believe the block is made of aluminum and after looking at diagrams of the engine buying a new block and rebuilding the engine is not something I'm willing to do, especially considering the tractor only has 330 hours on it. Please let me know what you recommend as my initial thoughts are finding a good welder who welds aluminum. Thanks.

 

[Dutch445]

have you verified the crankshaft/connecting rods are all ok? the crack may have
come from an internal failure, in which case it's usually terminal...
do you have compression in both cylinders?

 

[WranglerBowman]

It has compression and the engine will run if I spray a little carb and choke cleaner into the air intake. I added a picture above, the crack is on the otherside of the center fin that hangs down from the bottom of the engine. The block bulges out slightly right at the point also like something internal pushed it out and cracked it, but the engine runs! Could it be heat related? or someone overtorqued the bolts on the bottom of the block and split it? I'm really scratching my head on this one on how it happened and how to fix it.

 

[orangeandgreen]

If there is a bulge near the crack, something probably "let go" inside the engine. Don't try to run it any more or you are asking for trouble. Did you check compression on both cylinders?
Remove spark plugs and use a screw driver to make sure both pistons are moving up and down as the engine is rotated by hand.

 

[buickanddeere]

Repower John Deere X585

 

[WranglerBowman]

Both pistons are moving up and down, it's got to have at least decent compression if it was running on carb and choke cleaner, I can run a compression test this weekend. I took a few more pictures of the location of the crack and a decent one of the crack itself. It's about 4 inches long. I bought some hi temp liquid steel the other night, that's made for aluminum, and plan to use that with a syringe to try and force it into the crack. I'm also going to use a space heater to warm up that area to about the engine operating temp when I do that. Let me know your thoughts.

 

[buickanddeere]

Total waste of time and money trying to glop the crack.
The engine has to come apart for an autopsy. Odds are you will find something an external patch will never solve. Who knows, maybe the oil was never changed or the level kept up since new and she blew up.
Given the bluebook price of the tractor . It's still a value with a new engine . By the time a part here, a part there, some machine work etc. there will be as much into the busted engine as a new engine costs.

 

[Gator6x4]

Total waste of time and money trying to glop the crack.
The engine has to come apart for an autopsy. Odds are you will something an external patch will never solve.
Given the bluebook price of the tractor . It's still a value with a new engine . By the time a part here, a part there, some machine work etc. there will be as much into the busted engine as a new engine costs.

Agreed. The engine has to come out and be disassembled. A welding shop could then weld the crack and prevent future expansion. Dabbing the hi temp liquid steel on the crack would probably stop the leak in the short term, but the crack will continue to expand and grow.

 

[WranglerBowman]

Really wanted to avoid removing and dissassembling the engine at all cost due to my lack of available time. This is not a weld that could be made while the engine is still in the tractor? I was also reading about HTS-2000 aluminum brazzing rods and was wondering if something like that could be done without removing the engine?

 

[Dutch445]

i agree with the other 10+ year members in getting inside that motor to see the other side of the crack.

 

[dusty3030]

What all else is missing? In your first post you said it has some other problems.
If you don't have time to take it on as a project then I'd sell it as is and move on / lesson learned.

The engine crack as has been said already is not the problem, what caused the crack is the problem.

If you aren't willing to replace or repair the engine don't throw good money after bad on anything else on it.

 

[buickanddeere]

How trashed is the rest of the tractor and how much $$$ is invested. The tractor is two generations old but probably has much in common with the current X738.
To replace it would be $12,000 plus tax. Two grand for a fresh engine with warranty maybe worth it ?

X738 Signature Series Tractor

The X738 has full-time four-wheel drive to handle rougher terrain and power thru your toughest jobs, while maintaining a tight turning radius for excellent maneuverability. Electronic fuel injection (EFI) adds power and ensures fast starts and smooth warm-ups.

Price
$12,199.00* USD 48" Edge Xtra deck
$12,599.00* USD 54" High-Capacity deck
$12,899.00* USD 60" High-Capacity deck

2002 - 2006 HDGT X Series
Garden tractor
Next model: John Deere X728
Larger: John Deere X595
Smaller: John Deere X575

Production:
Manufacturer: John Deere
Factory: Horicon, Wisconsin, USA

Variants:
X585SE: upgraded seat, tires, and brush guard

John Deere X585 Engine:
Kawasaki 745cc 2-cyl gasoline

Capacity:
Fuel: 6.5 gal [24.6 L]
Front axle: 4.5 qts [4.3 L]

3-Point Hitch:
Rear Type: 0 (optional)
1-limited (optional)

Power Take-off (PTO):
Rear RPM: 540

Dimensions & Tires:
Wheelbase: 55.7 inches [141 cm]
Weight: 955 lbs [433 kg]
Front tire: 18x8.5-10
Rear tire: 26x12-12

John Deere X585 attachments:
48" mid-mount mower deck
54" mid-mount mower deck
62" mid-mount mower deck
snowblower
blade
front-end loader

X585 Serial Numbers:
photo of X585 serial number

2002: 010001
2003: 020001
2004: 030001

John Deere X585 Power:
Engine: 25 hp [18.6 kW]

Mechanical:
Chassis: 4x4 MFWD 4WD
Steering: hydrostatic power
Brakes: wet disc
Cab: Open operator station. Optional hard or soft weather enclosures. Optional heater.

Hydraulics:
Pressure: 1000 psi [69.0 bar]
Valves: 2
Total flow: 6.2 gpm [23.5 lpm]

Electrical:
Ground: negative
Charging system: alternator
Charging amps: 20

Battery:
Number: 1
Volts: 12

 

[WranglerBowman]

What all else is missing? In your first post you said it has some other problems.
If you don't have time to take it on as a project then I'd sell it as is and move on / lesson learned.

The engine crack as has been said already is not the problem, what caused the crack is the problem.

If you aren't willing to replace or repair the engine don't throw good money after bad on anything else on it.

I believe I've replaced most of the parts that were missing, ie throttle lever, fuel sender, light knob, side panels and all screws (both sides) light plug, bulbs, rear light lense. I'm sure there's a couple other things. I'm in it about $650 or so right now in parts and if I can salvage the engine block as is I think that should be all. I poured some oil into the cylinders and started it up and let it run for about 20 seconds or so and it runs well, didn't hear any issues, but then again I didn't let it heat up or run long enough to really know that everything is ok. I think someone may have run over something which cracked the engine block since the engine seems to run fine. Any idea's on what could cause a crack like this without it being an internal issue? The crack is right along the fin on the bottom of the block and the slight bulge/depression actually looks like it could be the way the block is molded. Any other X585 owners want to chime in on this?

I ordered some HTS 2000 brazzing rods this morning and am going to try that route first as they seem to have had some really good reviews for similar repairs. I'll drill out the ends of the crack and then use the brazing rods to fill. I plan to use the tractor in a month to grind up the leaves in my yard which are just starting to fall, so that should be a good test to see if the weld works (fingers crossed).

 

[paulfun9]

Its always best to remove and clean the part of any oil or gunk before welding. I have had many friends go threw the quick way trying yet an other miracle welding rod on things like this threw out the years. What I find amusing is how they keep trying over and over with the same results: Even their successes seem to be short lived and they end up spending more time and money doing it right the next time.
My vote is to disassemble and fix it right or not at all.

 

[Dutch445]

at least if you tore the motor apart, you can verify internal components,
clean the block properly, and seal from the inside with your weld and only
be out your time. chances are if there was no internal damage, you could
make the aluminum repair and reassemble, with new seals and gaskets, and might as well
do a new water pump while you are there as they are a common repair.

 

[ruffdog]

Sometimes the fast and cheap way, instead, ends up to be the slow and expensive way. :fortuneteller:

 

[buickanddeere]

I believe I've replaced most of the parts that were missing, ie throttle lever, fuel sender, light knob, side panels and all screws (both sides) light plug, bulbs, rear light lense. I'm sure there's a couple other things. I'm in it about $650 or so right now in parts and if I can salvage the engine block as is I think that should be all. I poured some oil into the cylinders and started it up and let it run for about 20 seconds or so and it runs well, didn't hear any issues, but then again I didn't let it heat up or run long enough to really know that everything is ok. I think someone may have run over something which cracked the engine block since the engine seems to run fine. Any idea's on what could cause a crack like this without it being an internal issue? The crack is right along the fin on the bottom of the block and the slight bulge/depression actually looks like it could be the way the block is molded. Any other X585 owners want to chime in on this?

I ordered some HTS 2000 brazzing rods this morning and am going to try that route first as they seem to have had some really good reviews for similar repairs. I'll drill out the ends of the crack and then use the brazing rods to fill. I plan to use the tractor in a month to grind up the leaves in my yard which are just starting to fall, so that should be a good test to see if the weld works (fingers crossed).

I'm with the other guys but you are going to have pay the expense of learning this lesson for yourself. Instead of taking the advice of the others here who have already paid or have seen others pay.

 

[skyhook]

It looks like "pressure buildup" caused this, to me.
Broken ring etc, definitely internal problems, if you don't want to take this apart,
and it sounds that way, you NEED to at least do a compression test, as suggested.
That crack, (if it's the only one, but I doubt it ) can be repaired temporarily with high heat,oil resistant silicone.

 

[WranglerBowman]

Just wanted to provide an update and ask some more questions. I ended up repairing the block with JB Weld for Engine Block Repair. After grinding the crack out with a dremel and apply the JB Weld to a nice clean surface the repair appears to be holding well there after 3 hours of use and the machine is a grass monster!!! However, I now have at least 3 oil leaks at different seals around the block of the engine...this engine must have been run pretty hot which has caused most of these issues. Does anyone know what engine this is: Engine Family KAXS.745N41A, Family ID 2KAXS.74521A? I have been looking all over and am pretty sure it's either the FD750D or the FD791 but can't say with 100% certainty which one it is and using the ID's listed above does not provided definitive evidence for which engine it is. I called the local JD Dealer and they think it's a FD750D but didn't know for sure. The serial # on the tractor is 041935, which I would think was a late 2005? Anyone have the same tractor with similar model engine information and knows for sure what engine they have?