beenthere
Super Star Member
- Joined
- Aug 16, 2001
- Messages
- 18,513
- Location
- Southern Wisconsin, USA
- Tractor
- JD_4x2_Gator, JD_4300, JD_425, JD_455 AWS, added JD_455, JD_110, JD_X485(sold)
Funny. Life is so unfair to you.. glad you are up and running.
John Deere 430 Overheats
- Thread starter Suburban Plowboy
- Start date
- Views: 14710
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- john deere 430
OP
Suburban Plowboy
Platinum Member
It gets even better. I dropped a bolt on the deck, and I could not find it with a magnetic tool, my hands, or the leaf blower. I had to remove the deck to find it. When the deck came out, a big black object was lying on top of it. Turned out it was the muffler.
There was no clamp. I can't figure out what had been holding it on. I couldn't jam it back in place. I have no idea how it was originally shoved in that space. I think I may have been trying to shove it in backward. My hands were filthy, and I was getting ready to quit, so I didn't check the parts site while trying to orient it in the tractor. It's standing on the floor in my workshop.
The muffler has what looks like the remains of two broken mounts on it, but I didn't find anything inside the tractor that corresponds to them. It's like it came from a totally different tractor. I must have looked in the wrong place. There is also a rectangular hole in the muffler, and it looks like someone made it with a Dremel. It's maybe 2.5" x .75". Why on earth would you cut a hole in a tractor muffler? Why not save time and remove the muffler entirely?
The places that looked broken looked like they had been that way for years.
I checked the web for new mufflers, mainly to find out how they were mounted. They don't look quite like my failed muffler.
I ran the tractor with no muffler to get it indoors. It sounds exactly the same way it always has. Either the muffler has been hanging loose for a long time, or that crazy hole makes it sound like a straight pipe.
I have to figure out what to do now. The factory muffler costs $256, and people on the web don't seem impressed by it. Apparently, muffler failures are a weak point with this tractor. I would rather put something on there that won't break.
I've always worn hearing protection when using this tractor. I figured it was loud because that's how they made them in '92. Looks like I was listening to exhaust straight from the engine.
I have read that the lack of back pressure will not hurt this engine, so I guess I have all the time in the world to come up with a solution.
Taking the deck off is a major chore. Deere made it so it doesn't clear the frame unless you jack the tractor up or take a wheel off the deck. The interference is less than half an inch. You would think a trained engineer could have made a tiny adjustment and saved consumers a lot of grief. Of course, John Deere's engineers were not smart enough to specify a linked belt for this tractor, and random Internet people were, so I should not be shocked. They didn't provide any way for rain to drain off the deck, either.
While the deck was off, I took the opportunity to grind metal off the deck's pivot shaft. The flanges were made incorrectly, so there is tremendous friction between them and the tractor frame. The first time I took the deck off, I nearly had to use a breaker bar. Today I took a brutal Walter flap wheel to it. I hate to beat up a part like that, but this thing is a piece of junk, and I'm afraid that if I replace it, the new pivot shaft will be just as poorly made. For all I know, the tractor frame itself could be the problem, so if I buy a new shaft, and the new shaft was made correctly, it might not help.
Obviously, someone at Deere and also the dealership let this deck go through, knowing it was screwed up. Someone had to install it, and when they did, they had to apply a great deal of force. They just kicked it down the road to the guy I bought it from, and now it's my problem. Nice quality control.
I'll keep grinding steel away until I get an acceptable fit. Maybe I can go teach a class for John Deere's engineers.
I'm afraid to take this thing to the local dealer. My understanding is that they maintained it before I got it, and there are bubba tracks all over it. I assume they cut the mystery hole in the muffler. Still trying to figure out why someone beat on the inner PTO shaft and left dings on it, making it harder to slide in and out. Maybe someone at the dealership used it as a hammer.
If I seem crabby, try to imagine the experience I just had. It was 96 here today with about 200% humidity, and it took me over a day to replace a simple v-belt when I needed to be doing other things. I really hate bad engineering.
There was no clamp. I can't figure out what had been holding it on. I couldn't jam it back in place. I have no idea how it was originally shoved in that space. I think I may have been trying to shove it in backward. My hands were filthy, and I was getting ready to quit, so I didn't check the parts site while trying to orient it in the tractor. It's standing on the floor in my workshop.
The muffler has what looks like the remains of two broken mounts on it, but I didn't find anything inside the tractor that corresponds to them. It's like it came from a totally different tractor. I must have looked in the wrong place. There is also a rectangular hole in the muffler, and it looks like someone made it with a Dremel. It's maybe 2.5" x .75". Why on earth would you cut a hole in a tractor muffler? Why not save time and remove the muffler entirely?
The places that looked broken looked like they had been that way for years.
I checked the web for new mufflers, mainly to find out how they were mounted. They don't look quite like my failed muffler.
I ran the tractor with no muffler to get it indoors. It sounds exactly the same way it always has. Either the muffler has been hanging loose for a long time, or that crazy hole makes it sound like a straight pipe.
I have to figure out what to do now. The factory muffler costs $256, and people on the web don't seem impressed by it. Apparently, muffler failures are a weak point with this tractor. I would rather put something on there that won't break.
I've always worn hearing protection when using this tractor. I figured it was loud because that's how they made them in '92. Looks like I was listening to exhaust straight from the engine.
I have read that the lack of back pressure will not hurt this engine, so I guess I have all the time in the world to come up with a solution.
Taking the deck off is a major chore. Deere made it so it doesn't clear the frame unless you jack the tractor up or take a wheel off the deck. The interference is less than half an inch. You would think a trained engineer could have made a tiny adjustment and saved consumers a lot of grief. Of course, John Deere's engineers were not smart enough to specify a linked belt for this tractor, and random Internet people were, so I should not be shocked. They didn't provide any way for rain to drain off the deck, either.
While the deck was off, I took the opportunity to grind metal off the deck's pivot shaft. The flanges were made incorrectly, so there is tremendous friction between them and the tractor frame. The first time I took the deck off, I nearly had to use a breaker bar. Today I took a brutal Walter flap wheel to it. I hate to beat up a part like that, but this thing is a piece of junk, and I'm afraid that if I replace it, the new pivot shaft will be just as poorly made. For all I know, the tractor frame itself could be the problem, so if I buy a new shaft, and the new shaft was made correctly, it might not help.
Obviously, someone at Deere and also the dealership let this deck go through, knowing it was screwed up. Someone had to install it, and when they did, they had to apply a great deal of force. They just kicked it down the road to the guy I bought it from, and now it's my problem. Nice quality control.
I'll keep grinding steel away until I get an acceptable fit. Maybe I can go teach a class for John Deere's engineers.
I'm afraid to take this thing to the local dealer. My understanding is that they maintained it before I got it, and there are bubba tracks all over it. I assume they cut the mystery hole in the muffler. Still trying to figure out why someone beat on the inner PTO shaft and left dings on it, making it harder to slide in and out. Maybe someone at the dealership used it as a hammer.
If I seem crabby, try to imagine the experience I just had. It was 96 here today with about 200% humidity, and it took me over a day to replace a simple v-belt when I needed to be doing other things. I really hate bad engineering.
OP
Suburban Plowboy
Platinum Member
How do you know who did what? Sounds like an Internet guess. Were you working for the Deere corporation or Yanmar back then?
Why do you think the muffler lasted 30 years? It has a hole in it, which someone cut for a reason. They could have done that in 1994. I don't know when the mounts gave out. Other 430 owners say the mufflers break off, so obviously, it's not designed well.
Saying a tractor is "30 years old" is not really informative. The tractor has fewer than 750 hours on it, so the muffler didn't last 750 hours.
I do blame Deere for this. Maintenance didn't create the weak muffler design problem or the necessity of working 8 hours to replace a belt. That was all Deere. It definitely wasn't me. It wasn't Kubota or Mahindra. Must have been Deere, right?
The previous owner took the tractor to the local dealership regularly. If Deere dealerships are doing a bad job, Deere isn't providing sound oversight. That would be Deere's fault.
I know some people get upset when anyone criticizes John Deere, but Internet forums like this were created to help consumers, not to defend manufacturers who screw up. No company is perfect. Nothing wrong with discussing their failings. It's very helpful to other end users.
A guy on another forum solved the muffler problem by buying a cheap resonator and running it through the left cover plate of his 430. Brilliant. Probably cost him less than $40. I'm looking into that solution now. He called the OEM muffler a monstrosity, which gave me a laugh.
Meanwhile, I'm looking into newer machines which are easier to use and maintain.
OP
Suburban Plowboy
Platinum Member
I didn't post any theories, except my guess as to why dealers use too much torque on fasteners. There has to be a reason. It's very common. People complain about it all the time. If it's not their way of discouraging us from working on things, then it's incompetence, which, I admit, is a highly likely explanation.
OP
Suburban Plowboy
Platinum Member
Here is a link to the forum thread where the guy who replaced his 430 muffler with a resonator posted photos. He says the resonator is light and doesn't stress the pipe. Might be helpful to someone.
https://www.mytractorforum.com/3191881-post5.html
https://www.mytractorforum.com/3191881-post5.html
OP
Suburban Plowboy
Platinum Member
I think now you're just looking for a way to save face. Sorry if I upset you, but for me, the rabbit trail has already ended.
beenthere
Super Star Member
- Joined
- Aug 16, 2001
- Messages
- 18,513
- Location
- Southern Wisconsin, USA
- Tractor
- JD_4x2_Gator, JD_4300, JD_425, JD_455 AWS, added JD_455, JD_110, JD_X485(sold)
What Pogo said... "you have met the enemy and he are us" or something like that.
For the Plowboy, looking for someone else to blame. Don't think Deere is it.. just sayin....
For the Plowboy, looking for someone else to blame. Don't think Deere is it.. just sayin....
OP
Suburban Plowboy
Platinum Member
I encountered some more John Deere genius this week. It takes about an hour and a half to remove and reinstall the deck, and guess what you have to do in order to drain the oil?
A 20-minute job is now a 2-hour job. Another John Deere engineering triumph!
Maybe I'm being too harsh. It would take a pretty brilliant engineer to realize people might want to change their oil without pouring it on the deck and into the ground.
I wonder what a dealership charges for the labor to remove the deck, change the oil, and replace the deck. It's probably free. They make enough money selling cheap stamped metal grills for over $700 and mufflers for over $250.
At least I don't have to remove the driveshaft this time. GO JOHN DEERE!
The operator's manual doesn't have directions for changing the oil. Smart. Saved some valuable paper there.
I like the way they put the oil plug as far back as possible, so you can't reach it from the front of the tractor. One more chance to lie in the dirt and be thankful for great engineering.
A grill for my big tractor, which is a much more substantial part, costs $260. I assume the JD grill is three times as good.
A 20-minute job is now a 2-hour job. Another John Deere engineering triumph!
Maybe I'm being too harsh. It would take a pretty brilliant engineer to realize people might want to change their oil without pouring it on the deck and into the ground.
I wonder what a dealership charges for the labor to remove the deck, change the oil, and replace the deck. It's probably free. They make enough money selling cheap stamped metal grills for over $700 and mufflers for over $250.
At least I don't have to remove the driveshaft this time. GO JOHN DEERE!
The operator's manual doesn't have directions for changing the oil. Smart. Saved some valuable paper there.
I like the way they put the oil plug as far back as possible, so you can't reach it from the front of the tractor. One more chance to lie in the dirt and be thankful for great engineering.
A grill for my big tractor, which is a much more substantial part, costs $260. I assume the JD grill is three times as good.
beenthere
Super Star Member
- Joined
- Aug 16, 2001
- Messages
- 18,513
- Location
- Southern Wisconsin, USA
- Tractor
- JD_4x2_Gator, JD_4300, JD_425, JD_455 AWS, added JD_455, JD_110, JD_X485(sold)
You keep harping on the JD engineers... maybe the real trouble or problem is you!! Think on that.. as I don't think others have such problems. just sayin...
