John Deere 2040 with Open Center valve on FEL

[Zebrafive]

Serial number is 317012 L. Just got this thing back today. I bought it from a local fellow that has been buying and selling tractors for years and actually has a pretty good reputation locally. Unfortunately, he has not been all that helpful to me... FEL works fairly well, but, since getting it back I’ve noticed that, in addition to them pulling the rear remotes off, they left an open line that used to tie into the rear remote, and the 3 point hydraulics will not even let the box blade go all the way down (in addition to only lifting when the loader controls are used at the same time). Starting to feel like this guy saw me coming and just took my money.

When you say "just got it back today" did you return it for any changes?
Like change the loader valve to CC (closed center)?
Did you agree to buy it without rear remotes? Did they remove the SCV and quick couplers?
More info on the line they left open. If it is coming from the PCV and unplugged it will be flowing!

 

[Jimmy_G]

Your tractor has closed center hyd's. I think FEL control valve is open center OR if FEL valve has a relief valve it's not holding 2250 psi. Don't give up on tractor at this time. Can you please post photo of FEL control valve & photos of how hoses are attached to tractor hyd system?

These are the only pictures I have at the moment. I’ll get better ones tomorrow evening when I am back out there. It sprung a leak from one of the hoses yesterday so it’s going to be down until I get that replaced anyhow.

 

[CADplans]

I'm not understanding this as it sounds like you're describing a leak in the suction line not allowing sufficient fluid into the pump causing cavitation. That would be true with either type of valve, no? (I may be misinterpreting.)

The CC pump has a huge volume capacity compared to the same size tractor with an open center system

 

[CADplans]

The CC pump has a huge volume capacity compared to the same size tractor with an open center system

and the CC pump ONLY has to supply that huge volume capacity when the controls are set to supply the oil for some use.
Otherwise, the CC pump is not pumping hardly any oil.

So, installing an OC valve in a CC system causes the tractor to pump huge volumes of oil,, which is wasted effort demanded of the tractor.

If the oil does not get back to the sump (usually the transmission) fast enough,, the pump starts to suck air.
The CC system is not designed to pump 100% of the flow capacity constantly.

If the CC system was designed for 100% function, the transmission would hold 3 or 4 times as much oil.

 

[Jimmy_G]

and the CC pump ONLY has to supply that huge volume capacity when the controls are set to supply the oil for some use.
Otherwise, the CC pump is not pumping hardly any oil.

So, installing an OC valve in a CC system causes the tractor to pump huge volumes of oil,, which is wasted effort demanded of the tractor.

If the oil does not get back to the sump (usually the transmission) fast enough,, the pump starts to suck air.
The CC system is not designed to pump 100% of the flow capacity constantly.

If the CC system was designed for 100% function, the transmission would hold 3 or 4 times as much oil.

I’m assuming that’s why it sounds almost like it has cavitation (tapping sound) in the lines when you operate the loader?

 

[Tx Jim]

I can't determine for sure from photos but the hyd valve in photo I think is a closed-center valve. A better photo of valve & knowing how valve is connected to tractor hyd system is important.

Simple test: disconnect FEL hyd valve return hose from tractor, cap that fitting on tractor. With FEL control lever in neutral start engine, aim open hose in open hyd filler hole behind seat & no oil should escape open FEL control valve return hose. I think CC valve in photo is what you have.

 

[Jimmy_G]

When you say "just got it back today" did you return it for any changes?
Like change the loader valve to CC (closed center)?
Did you agree to buy it without rear remotes? Did they remove the SCV and quick couplers?
More info on the line they left open. If it is coming from the PCV and unplugged it will be flowing!

It’s a long story. Basically bought the tractor on a handshake from a local guy with a good rep. I don’t believe he sold it to me maliciously, but he didn’t check it out the way he promised to either this is back in October. I used it the first day, scooped a load of sand (not even a full bucket) and blew one of the lift cylinders for the FEL - shooting white hydraulic fluid everywhere. I called him and he had me bring it back so he could put new seals in the cylinder and change the hydraulic fluid. I got it back just before Thanksgiving.
Then I hooked onto the box blade and was going to work with it, only to find that the hydraulics would not lift for the three point. I called him again, and we found that the FEL had an open center valve, and that the three point would lift if you could move the FEL controls. He couldn’t get to it right then and asked me to bring it to him after the first of the year. In the interim, we noticed that all three FEL cylinders that we had not rebuilt were leaking too, so I had him do those - now, it’s March, I’ve picked it up, and the cylinders don’t leak anymore, but he decided not to do anything about the open valve on a closed system because it’s not a simple fix. In the process of testing and diagnosing, he removed the rear remote, and cut the lines. There is a line attached to the spot where there is a plug just to the left and below the cap for the hydraulic oil that is no longer attached to anything. The three point will not go all the way down, and the hydraulic fluid is milky white again - as I noticed when one of the lines started shooting hydraulic oil several feet in the air from one of the fittings on the FEL.
All in all, a pretty frustrating experience.

 

[Jimmy_G]

I can't determine for sure from photos but the hyd valve in photo I think is a closed-center valve. A better photo of valve & knowing how valve is connected to tractor hyd system is important.

Simple test: disconnect FEL hyd valve return hose from tractor, cap that fitting on tractor. With FEL control lever in neutral start engine, aim open hose in open hyd filler hole behind seat & no oil should escape open FEL control valve return hose. I think CC valve in photo is what you have.

I will get you some better pictures tomorrow afternoon. I really appreciate you taking the time to look this over and to help. This is been a pretty frustrating experience for me but I really would like to keep this old tractor running and use it.

 

[Zebrafive]

I can't determine for sure from photos but the hyd valve in photo I think is a closed-center valve. A better photo of valve & knowing how valve is connected to tractor hyd system is important.

Simple test: disconnect FEL hyd valve return hose from tractor, cap that fitting on tractor. With FEL control lever in neutral start engine, aim open hose in open hyd filler hole behind seat & no oil should escape open FEL control valve return hose. I think CC valve in photo is what you have.

TxJim, I think it's an open center valve. Key 21 is where another hose would connect. I am not sure if that is the "tank/return" hose or PB (power beyond) hose that connects there. I am guessing it has plug in it.
I do not know if there is a special cc conversion plug for this port.

Your test of disconnecting the return hose would confirm if OC or CC.

 

[Zebrafive]

It’s a long story. Basically bought the tractor on a handshake from a local guy with a good rep. I don’t believe he sold it to me maliciously, but he didn’t check it out the way he promised to either this is back in October. I used it the first day, scooped a load of sand (not even a full bucket) and blew one of the lift cylinders for the FEL - shooting white hydraulic fluid everywhere. I called him and he had me bring it back so he could put new seals in the cylinder and change the hydraulic fluid. I got it back just before Thanksgiving.
Then I hooked onto the box blade and was going to work with it, only to find that the hydraulics would not lift for the three point. I called him again, and we found that the FEL had an open center valve, and that the three point would lift if you could move the FEL controls. He couldn’t get to it right then and asked me to bring it to him after the first of the year. In the interim, we noticed that all three FEL cylinders that we had not rebuilt were leaking too, so I had him do those - now, it’s March, I’ve picked it up, and the cylinders don’t leak anymore, but he decided not to do anything about the open valve on a closed system because it’s not a simple fix. In the process of testing and diagnosing, he removed the rear remote, and cut the lines. There is a line attached to the spot where there is a plug just to the left and below the cap for the hydraulic oil that is no longer attached to anything. The three point will not go all the way down, and the hydraulic fluid is milky white again - as I noticed when one of the lines started shooting hydraulic oil several feet in the air from one of the fittings on the FEL.
All in all, a pretty frustrating experience.

Pictures will help. The ones TxJim asked for of how/where the loader valve connects to the tractor. Also what is left of the rear remote, and the cut line.

I may have missed what transmission and type of PTO it has. If Hi/Lo or Reverser transmission, I would be very worried the white/milky hydraulic fluid (water in fluid) has ruined the clutch packs. Same for clutch pack if it has IPTO Independent PTO (operated be control between shift levers, not foot clutch). Water in fluid will also ruin the brake linings.

Was tractor stored outside? Are the shift boots cracked/torn? They are a primary entry point for water when they are damaged. Sump screen should be checked for brake/clutch lining material.

I would want a correct cc loader valve installed and rear remote(s) restored to working order. Plus some agreement how brakes and wet clutches (if equipped) will be addressed if damaged.