jinma 224, gages dead.

[TSMART]

The symptoms were there for quite a while. Gages come to life and then die, then they come back.. feels like a loose connection somewhere,,,.but for the most part they worked. Now they are not coming back. Amp meter works, and the dash lights up, but all other gages, fuel, tach, temp, oil do not work.

The tractor always starts right up. (FYI)

I pulled all the fuses, which had been replaced with new ones not so long ago. No bad fuses found. Plenty of friction on both sides of each fuse.

I have pulled the fuse assembly from its mounting bar, will disconnect that from its pigtails, clean it, tweak the fuse female connections, and re-plug.

I have pulled the cluster one-piece instrument panel. I manipulated all switches on the dash.......That's where I am RIGHT NOW..., and the gages still dont work.

Tomorrow morning I will clean all connections on the rear of the gages themselves, then disconnect and clean all pigtails with CRC.

OK. If that does not work, what's my next move? Battery just replaced a few months ago.

If I end up replacing the fuse bar, my fuse recepticle also has two multi-pronged modules just to the right side of them. Don't know what they are about, though.

Guidance, please! Cause I really don't know!

 

[mark1]

Sounds like the panel or gages themselfs are loosing a GOOD ground connection.Take a wire and find a good clean metal ground spot and touch the gage case.see if it comes to life?
If the cluster assy.has a printed circuit (Not sure about it) but if it does. check the solder joinds on the board.sometimes you nedd to use a magnifying glass.to find bad joints.then resolder them. I've found bad joints on things like sears garage door openers etc.

 

[Diamondpilot]

I agree with the bad ground. I would just try a jumper from the negative battery terminal to the ground on the gauge cluster to trouble shoot. If thats it trace the ground back and clean it good removing any rust or paint and give it a try.

Chris

 

[TSMART]

My gage cluster has 2 main wires which power it, one red, one black. They go from the back of the cluster to a pigtail connector.

May I assume that black is ground, and (after cleaning and re tightening that nut) run a wire from that nut directly to the neg terminal of the bat (or clean metal elsewhere) Just want to be sure.

 

[quicksandfarmer]

It could be anywhere.

The way to find circuit faults is to do what's called a binary search. You start in the middle, and with each test eliminate one half of the circuit. Keep repeating until you isolate the problem.

What should you use for a tester? Since the problem is intermittent I would recommend some sort of buzzer or noise maker, you can tell without looking when the voltage drops because the sound will change or stop.

First, put the buzzer on the main power wires of the gauge cluster. Observe for a while. If the gauges drop but the buzzer stays on, the problem is internal to your instrument cluster. Otherwise, it's somewhere in your wiring.

Leave one wire attached to red on the panel, and attach the other to the negative post of the battery. If the gauges drop but the buzzer stays on you have a ground problem. Otherwise you have a supply voltage problem.

If it's a ground problem, your problem is somewhere between the black wire and the negative battery terminal. Keep repeating the test along that path until you find the spot.

If it's a supply problem, it's somewhere between the red wire and the positive terminal of the battery. Keep repeating the test along that path -- battery, fuse box, key switch -- until you find the spot.

Most likely it's a bad connection somewhere. There is some chance that all the moving around under the hood jiggles it around enough that it goes away for a while. Intermittent problems can be frustrating that way.

 

[Sumpter]

My gage cluster has 2 main wires which power it, one red, one black. They go from the back of the cluster to a pigtail connector.

May I assume that black is ground, and (after cleaning and re tightening that nut) run a wire from that nut directly to the neg terminal of the bat (or clean metal elsewhere) Just want to be sure.

Yes black is ground. red is hot. And yes run a wire from that nut to neg terminal to see if you have a ground issue.

 

[greg_g]

My gage cluster has 2 main wires which power it, one red, one black. They go from the back of the cluster to a pigtail connector.

If those two wires are fatter than the others, they're probably just the ammeter leads. The cluster should have 1 or 2 other connectors (mine has a total of 3). The smaller gauge wires are for instruments (less ammeter), idiot lights, and associated ground(s).

//greg//

 

[TSMART]

Yes, the red and the black wire are MUCH fatter than any of the other wires on the back of the cluster.

 

[greg_g]

I wasn't sure, there are some differences between/among Chinese cluster gauges. But the fat wires are a give-away, they're dedicated to the ammeter. Since the ammeter works, it's not that black wire. I re-read your opening post, which now strongly suggests you have the type with 3 pig-tail connectors; ammeter, lighting, instrumentation. Ammeter and lighting work, so that pretty much leaves either ground wire in the instrumentation pigtail. It might not be in the actual connector. So identify the ground wire, and follow it to the physical ground point. Short of that, you're looking at a defect in the printed circuit board. Fixing a wire isn't a big deal. It's a little more challenging, but printed circuits can be repaired with an appropriate soldering technique.

I'm lookin' at the backside of one right now, but it's not necessarily the same as yours. On this one, the ground wire on the left pig tail would seem to be the black one. The next pigtail to the right is the ammeter. It appears there's no ground wire in the far right pig-tail. My ohm-meter says the black one on the left connector is connected via printed circuit to both sides of the cluster. Since you have illumination but no instruments (again assuming yours is similar to mine), that then suggests
1. a break somewhere on the printed circuit board ground path, or
2. no voltage through the far right pig-tail (red wire).

//greg//

 

[Bob Rooks]

Don't run ANY ammeter wires to ground. Please.

 

[dcyrilc]

I would also lean toward looking for a grounding issue.

 

[TSMART]

Headlights and tail lights work. Here is a pic of the back of the cluster. On the right side (as shown) you have fuel gage (top) water temp (bottom)....on left side as shown, oil pressure top and ammeter bottom.

Looks like the 2 fat red and black wire go to ammeter. Can I use that BLACK post as my ground point, then connect a wire from that to my neg terminal. I will get two alligator clips and a piece of wire for the jump, OK? If not, can I use the screw posts which mount the cluster to the cowl?

The other pic from front side of cluster shows that the lights are on, and that pic was taken with engine running.

 

[Bob Rooks]

Looks like the 2 fat red and black wire go to ammeter. Can I use that BLACK post as my ground point, then connect a wire from that to my neg terminal.

NO! You will start a fire! Both of those ammeter wires will be hot when you turn on the key switch. Neither one of them is a ground wire. The ammeter is internally shunted and allows full current flow through it. The color coding in this case depicts correct direction of current flow so the meter doesn't read backwards.

 

[TSMART]

OK so what am I grounding to on the back of the cluster?

 

[Bob Rooks]

OK so what am I grounding to on the back of the cluster?

I agree with K7LN's suggestions.
It's hard to tell from the pic but it appears that the long mounting stud at the top left has a connection within the pc board and that would be a safe place to start with the alligator clip test.

 

[greg_g]

OK so what am I grounding to on the back of the cluster?

Like I said; black wire, left side pig-tail. That's the same cluster described in my last post.

//greg//

 

[Bob Rooks]

Like I said; black wire, left side pig-tail. That's the same cluster described in my last post.

//greg//

But NOT the ammeter black wire.

 

[dcyrilc]

Headlights and tail lights work. Here is a pic of the back of the cluster. On the right side (as shown) you have fuel gage (top) water temp (bottom)....on left side as shown, oil pressure top and ammeter bottom.

Looks like the 2 fat red and black wire go to ammeter. Can I use that BLACK post as my ground point, then connect a wire from that to my neg terminal. I will get two alligator clips and a piece of wire for the jump, OK? If not, can I use the screw posts which mount the cluster to the cowl?

The other pic from front side of cluster shows that the lights are on, and that pic was taken with engine running.

Looking at the back of the cluster, the two larger red and black wires are the amp meter and can be eliminated from being your issue. On each side there are five wires; blue, green?, yellow, orange, and brown. These are the returns for the indicator lamps on each side. The red on the right appears to provide the power for the lamps and maybe the two guages as well through the resistor. Hard to see in this photo though. I would expect a red for indicator power on the left also, but can't see it in this pic. You should be able to eliminate all of those wires as well. What does that leave left to examine? Shouldn't be that much. I can see a gray and white on the right, but hard to tell what else. Might be worth unplugging the connector on the right, opposite side from the amp meter and check the condition of the terminals in the connector. It looks pretty dirty on the outside. Could be just dirt and crud in the connectors.

Still looking at the back of the cluster on the right. The two guages appear to get power to the right side terminal through the resistors. The top center terminal appears to connect to both guages and should be the ground terminal. The left terminal I cannot see what it connects to, but I expect it to connect to a signal wire to control the guage. Follow the circuit which connects to the top center terminal on the two guages and see if it connects to a black wire. I would look to connect a grounded test lead to one of those terminals and see if they respond to a good ground connection.

 

[TSMART]

IT'S FIXED!

I pulled the cluster completely, cleaned both pigtail connectors with CRC, blew them out, then re attatched. That did not get it.

Then I went behind the fuse box, found one big multi pronged pigtail adapter, cleaned that out, hit with air, reattatched....that did't get it either.

Then I took another look behind the fuse box, there was one more smaller three-pronged adaptor. I pulled that, cleaned it the same way, pluggged it back in, and got the gages back.

So another valuable lesson learned on this forum with the help of all of you. Can't really call myself an electrical expert. Not close!

It is amazing that I haven't yet had a problem with my 224 (an '05 with 450 hours now, had her since new) that I could not fix WITH THE HELP of this form. Cant say that about my car!

Thanks a lot!

 

[dcyrilc]

Glad to hear that she's working again. That was one of the reasons I mentioned that those connectors looked so dirty. As K7LN said, a little dirt and corrosion on the connectors can really play havoc.