3-Point Hitch JD650 3pt hitch no control over arms. Help!

[BCinMI650]

Hello! I need some help....

I’ve got John Deere 650 that I purchased and have been bringing back to life to help maintain a new property I just bought. For the lift of me I cannot get the 3pt/rockshaft/position control lever to act right. I can either go all the way down or all the way up (very quickly I might add), there is no inbetween. It’s like I don’t have any control over the arms. I’ve replaced the spring washers on the position control lever and reset the tension, drained the hydraulics, had the valve off and cleaned it out, adjusted the rate of drop screw and the drop valve, tweaked the feedback arm and still nothing. Im just out of ideas and mowing season will be here before I know it. I noticed that when I have the position control lever down, the arm is completely off the piston in the control valve. Is that normal? Anyone out there have any ideas? Or could anyone send me a video/photos of one operations correctly. I’d hate to have to haul this thing into a repair shop.

Thanks!
BC

 

[farmeratheart]

I have a 1985 650 that I bought a couple of years back to use at our camp. The 3 point linkage does go up and down much faster than my other tractor, but does allow for stopping in between full up or full down. The tractor is 400 miles away in winter storage or I would take some pictures for you. Sorry that I can’t be more helpful. Frank

 

[Oldtink]

your feedback linkage is froze up. When all those pivot points are freed you'll be able to stop the 3 pt arms anywhere you want. Put the P-oil to them and wiggle them loose. That control arm should always be in contact with the control valve.

 

[BCinMI650]

Farmeratheart, thanks for the reference point. What implements (type and size) do you use with your 650? I'm also tryin to gauge what the tractor is capable of without finding out the hard way after I buy. so far i have the 60in mid mount mower for it, a 44in box blade (Traded for the cab that came with the tractor), a JD365 hydraulic plow w/ wing extensions (came with the tractor), a boom pole (a gift, but of no use with the 3pt in its current state), and I just picked up a bushhog 1846QT FEL that I am trying to get cleaned up and serviced before the spring. I'm curious as to what size brush hog, tiller, plow, etc folks are using on them.

Oldtink, You are correct. On another forum, I had user advise me that the arm that is connect to the spring at the top and the position control arm shaft on the bottom should pivot freely on that shaft. It was not doing that, it had been painted/rusted/jammed on so it moved in unison with the shaft, so I either had pressure on the hydraulics or I didn't, no inbetween. Took the assembly off yesterday, soaked it with some WD40, took a torch and a B.F.H to it and freed it up. going to take the time to clean it up and get it repainted and properly lubricated before reassembling. Hoping that corrects it. I'll keep you posted! thanks for the advice!

 

[farmeratheart]

I have the 650 primarily to move boats around our storage barn. I do have a Woods 50” RFM that we do some cleanup around the property with. Is yours 4WD?

 

[BCinMI650]

Ya its the 4wd model with the turf tires. I'm looking for an extra set of rims to mount some loaded ag tires onto for when times when the added traction is needed.

 

[farmeratheart]

Mine is the 2WD model- also with turfs. I had the 60” mmm but it actually got in the way when maneuvering boats around. I sold it to a guy from PA who had a 650 that he wanted to use for trail maintenance at a hunting property. Lots of these older tractors around and still in use. I won’t be near mine until May unless the ice at the lake goes out really early this year.

Frank

 

[BCinMI650]

They are good tractors from what I hear. It was too small for what the previous owner was trying to use it for (he inherited it from his father) and had what I needed to get through the winter at the right price. I’m excited to get it all working right and put it to work this spring. I may end up with something bigger one day, but I don’t think I’ll lose money on the package.

 

[BCinMI650]

Just to follow up. All fixed! And cleaned up nicely. Thanks for all the help everyone.

 

[farmeratheart]

Good deal! I hope that it’s everything you hoped for come spring.

Frank

 

[BCinMI650]

So the little tractor has come a long way. Front end loader. Roll bar. Swapped the turfs for ags (on the turf rims so these things are huge). All new filters and fluids. It is running beautifully. But I am still not happy with the 3pt control. The total range of motion is great. I can lift all my implements plenty high without hitting the relief valve now (previously i would get 6 off the ground and it would be screaming and kill the tractor). And I have way more control than I used to, but it is still not a linear relationship between rock shaft and 3pt. I get very jerky upward movement. It is much smoother when the tractor is idling around 1000 Rpm. Soon as I ramp up to 1800-2000 for actual work, it gets jerky. Does not matter if it is a 250lb rake, 450lb box blade or just the draw bar. If I move the lever, it jumps, forcefully, and catches itself. The previous owner said he was trying to lift large round hay bales with a 3pt spear and no matter what he did, he could not get it to lift high enough for what he needed, so I am wondering if he tried to adjust something and messed it up. The other thing I have noticed is the little piston that comes out from under the seat (facing the rear of the tractor) and makes contact with the feedback lever only seems to come out maybe 1/4 to 1/2 inch and there is no contact for the rest of the time while the rockshaft lever is traveling. I do not know if that is correct or not, it just seems like there should be contact throughout the motion.

Any thoughts would be appreciated

 

[beenthere]

The other thing I have noticed is the little piston that comes out from under the seat (facing the rear of the tractor) and makes contact with the feedback lever only seems to come out maybe 1/4 to 1/2 inch and there is no contact for the rest of the time while the rockshaft lever is traveling. I do not know if that is correct or not, it just seems like there should be contact throughout the motion.

Have you looked at the parts involved to see if all are there and none missing?
Is this little piston you speak of item key#13 ?

 

[BCinMI650]

That is it yes. Lever down all the way, no contact, obviously no control when the lever is coming up until it makes contact with piston (Item#13), but once contact is made (maybe 1/2 - 2/3 of the way up the travel) its kind of a jerky motion until the lever is fully raised and the piston (Item #13) is depressed. Even when fully raised, the piston (Item#13) still sticks out about 1/8 - 1/4 inch (which I'm sure its supposed to given the design on the piece pushing on it) so it feels like the contact should be made earlier to give more precision throughout the motion.

 

[BCinMI650]

example of first contact and lever position

What is odd is that on the parts catalog, or tech manual, I can't find reference to the screw above my plug (Item #1) nor is it present on any used valves on ebay. see picture

 

[CADplans]

The only info I can offer is that my JD650 three point hitch goes up and down, and a VERY nice speed,,
and it will position respond like the 3PH on a $70,000 tractor,,

So, at least now, you know that is should work.

I do not have a loader,,
I would bet that the loader hoses could be incorrectly connected,, causing all sorts of 3PH issues.

The tractor has an open center hydraulic system,, the different hydraulic systems have to be connected in series.
If one is connected wrong,, everything else down stream will respond incorrectly,, also,,

 

[beenthere]

Good thought on the FEL system.. maybe try disconnecting the FEL and see if it has any effect on the 3 ph..

 

[BCinMI650]

CADplans, thanks for rubbing it in... could I bother you to check for or snap a picture of the rockshaft control valve to see if it has the screw above the plug like I mention above?

Would I need to remove the plumbing for it or just disconnect the quick connects? The control unit was already on it when I bought the tractor, as it controls the 4 way plow that came with the tractor (when I pulled the FEL out of a junkyard in Alabama I ended up with a spare unit)

 

[BCinMI650]

And actually if you are feeling generous, A picture of the piston when your rockshaft lever is fully depressed... so many things were out of adjustment on this tractor when I bought it (first tractor purchase, did not know what to look for, did not have a clear vision for what and how it would be used, totally on me, but I like the little bugger) that I would like to get back to square one.

 

[CADplans]

CADplans, thanks for rubbing it in... could I bother you to check for or snap a picture of the rockshaft control valve to see if it has the screw above the plug like I mention above?

Would I need to remove the plumbing for it or just disconnect the quick connects? The control unit was already on it when I bought the tractor, as it controls the 4 way plow that came with the tractor (when I pulled the FEL out of a junkyard in Alabama I ended up with a spare unit)

Nope, I do not have the screw,, that screw has to be part of the "power beyond adapter" (I have no idea what the "correct name for it is)

The "power beyond adapter" offers the needed ports to connect the loader valve to the tractor,, there has to be three hoses connected to the loader valve.


If you disconnect the loader valve correctly,, by connecting the correct hoses together, that would help to determine if the loader is at fault,,
I know nothing of the loader hydraulic connection, other than typical hydraulics.


On a side note,, I do have the little red lever on the side of the valve,,
mine is facing forward, yours appears to be rotated to point towards the rear?

I have no idea as to the function of that red lever,, Do you know what it is supposed to do?

 

[BCinMI650]

I believe that is the rate of drop lever. I have not fiddled with mine too much but I should. I do not know which way does what but I know It controls how fast your 3pt drops. My goal is to make sure I am not breaking concrete when I set down implements.

I bet you are right about the power beyond stuff. I will have to research it more. I am not 100% sure I have the stuff to plumb it without the FEL.