JD vs Kubota

MikeFanelli · Mar 24, 2004

I am looking to add to my existing JD 870, 650 tractor stable. I need to mow between rows of christmas trees 5 ft apart.
I am thinking of a mmm since that allows me to turn easily without mowing down trees (A few have given their lives) with a rear mount. Any opinions on the diff between a 4010, 4110 and a Kubota or maybe a 2210. I have a loader on the 870.
So many questions but I just found this site.
Thanks

KiotiJohn · Mar 24, 2004

Sorry don't have any input on those, but my Kioti CK20HST has been perfect for me to mow between Blueberry Bushes with a 4 ft. brush hog. The ease and control of the HST is great, and they offer a MMM as well. It's a great tractor for all the many things I do with it, and I saved money over the others when I purchased. John
CK20SHOTS

mathey · Mar 24, 2004

I too have Christmas trees with rows 5' apart, about 6 acres worth. My father-in-law is a professional Christmas tree farmer, with over 100 acres of trees.

I bought a Kioti CK20 to mow the rows, the CK measures about 44" outside of tire to outside of tire and pull a 48" bush hog rotary mower. When my FIL saw my tractor he said "nice tractor, but its way too big! it'll be fine for the first few years, but when the rows start to fill in, it'll break too many branches" DOH!

He uses NH TC21's with the narrow ag tires, dished in, and pulls 42" bush hog mowers. They've also modfied them with wheel shields to push the branches out of the way to avoid them getting run over.

I guess my advice to you is not to buy what you need now, but what you'll need in the future when the trees are mature. I'm not sure JD has anything that is narrow enough to do the job...i'm sure some JD guys can speak more to that as well as to other brands that offer some smaller narrower units.

In regards to the MMM, IMHO you really need to keep up with the mowing to use a MMM...let it get out of hand one time, and you really need to slow down to get it mowed. With the rotary, you can pretty much just roll through the field, no matter how tall the grass is (within reason). Hopefully, you have enough room at the ends to turn around with a 3ph rotary mower.

I'm guessing that in the next 2 years, i'll need to buy a smaller tractor to do the tree field mowing, i'm leaning towards either the NH TC18 or 21 in 2wd form or perhaps a commercial ZTR type mower.

KiotiJohn · Mar 24, 2004

Good points Mathey, I hadn't thought of the future growth as I don't do Christmas Trees, but it sure makes sense. Maybe a power trac would do the job you both need to do? John

MessickFarmEqu · Mar 24, 2004

I would consider a steiner with a front mount christmas tree mower. Its made specificly for that job, I know one farm that has 8 of them.

Kubota also makes a few specific narrow models if thats an issue for you.

rockyridgefarm · Mar 24, 2004

Here's a little input:

<font color="green"> Any opinions on the diff between a 4010, 4110 and a Kubota or maybe a 2210. </font>

A difference between the CUTs (4010, 4110, etc) and the sub CUTs (2210_ is that it seems like you are getting more Hp for your money with the sub, but it is more of a marketing trick.

A good dealer makes all the difference, if you are happy with the current one, you might want to start there...

Even though you aren't needing a loader, I'd at least make sure that the machine would be capable of one that I liked. Things could change down the road and having a Quick Attach loader might be real handy.

mathey · Mar 24, 2004

the JD webpage doesn't list rear tread width...neither does the NH page for that matter, but i'm more familiar with NH.

the Steiner looks perfect, but dang aren't they expensive little guys! I had no idea...but it's ideal, wide at the bottom and narrow up top.

rockyridgefarm · Mar 24, 2004

FWIW the Deere site has the Owners manuals online. You can check any detail such as wheel spacing, tread width, etc.

rockyridgefarm · Mar 24, 2004

BTW good informative posts, Neil. Always good to get good info from a dealer's angle.

Bob_Skurka · Mar 24, 2004

<font color="red"> I need to mow between rows of christmas trees 5 ft apart.
color]

Venture Products, makers of the Ventrac line of tractors makes a Christmas tree mower specifically designed to mow between & under conifers. It has diverters that lift the branches over the mower deck so they are not cut off. The wheels are also partially covered so they do not damage the trees.

Ledgemere Farm · Mar 24, 2004

John Deere used to make a 4100 N or Narrow. I don not know if this has been continued with the 4110 or not. Might be worth calling a dealer to ask. Were I you, I'd by a DEERE so that you only go to one place for parts and such.

WiJC · Mar 24, 2004

kubota makes a b7510 i believe in a narrow package. if i recall correctly it is under 40" wide.

John

MikeFanelli · Mar 24, 2004

I appreciate your repsonse and I will probably go with the smaller tractor. I realize the trees will grow in in some areas that will cause a problem. The prior owner used a 5 foot rmm and when I used that initially I did break a few branches. I expect to do some trimming on the lower branches anyway. Any mower smaller than 4 ft requires several passes through each row and we have about 15 acres of trees so that becomes way too much work. There never is an easy solution that is within budget constraints.
Thanks again

MikeFanelli · Mar 24, 2004

Thanks but I have not seen a Kioti dealer around here. I am sure there is one but I am relatively new to this area.

mathey · Mar 24, 2004

well, I wasn't pushing the Kioti's as i think they will be too big anyways...

just curious, do you spray weed killer along the tree edges? on our fields for example, there is a 2 foot wide "dead" area along the trees (one foot on each side of a trunk) so the actual grass area is only about 40 or so inches wide...so each row only requires one pass, except the roadways.

MikeFanelli · Mar 24, 2004

I plan to use weed control as well now that I understand the tree growing, maintaining process a little better. I should be able to make a single pass after I finish spraying. Oops now I need a spray rig. It probably does not end although I get more equipment.

Mike

Bob_Skurka · Mar 24, 2004

Mike, a guy near me raises a fairly small patch of Christmas trees, maybe 4 or 5 acers. He uses a front mount mower deck on a Steiner and just runs one pass between the trees. I've seen him do it a couple times as I drive by. He also has some deflectors to keep the branches lifted off of the tires so they don't get damaged. The Steiners have small wheels which might be an advantage in that type of mowing? I don't know of any other tractors like it near where I live but I have been looking at Steiners and Ventracs because I want to replace one of my tractors that is primarily a mowing tractor.

In the Ventrac brochures they show a 4wd articulated Ventrac 3000 with a Christmas Tree mower and they also offer a rear mounted spray rig. Ventrac is made by the guys who originially designed & built Steiners before they sold the company. I have no interest in a tree mowing set up, but as I was doing my research I stumbled on it.

Just to let you know pricing, I have been quoted a Ventrac 3000 with a 60" mower deck is running just over $9550. I have no idea what it would be if you substituted the Christmas tree deck for the 60" finish deck, but I would think the price would be similar??? I don't know if that is in your budget, but it gives you a reference point.

Ventrac Tractors

Steiner Tractors

Bob_Skurka · Mar 24, 2004

By the way, the price on the Steiner 415 with mower deck seems to be about the same as the Ventrac 3000 with a mower deck. Ignore the prices on the Steiner web site! Steiner and Ventrac seem to be fighting each other for business and the prices quoted by dealers are significantly different than the LIST prices.

MessickFarmEqu · Mar 25, 2004

The Steiner 415 and Ventrac 3000 are smaller, almost home owner units. If your not doing huge amounts of mowing they would work fine. The larger model, 430 has a 27HP Kohler. We sell that for $9800.

The steiner and Ventrac are simular machines, as you've heard the designers are the same. Ventrac has a few pockets where they seem to sell okay, Steiner has a much broader base of dealers. Resale value for used steiners is insane. They are built so well they really hold their value. If you compare them side by side the Ventrac is usually more expensive because the design is more complex. They use more rigging to get the controls to the side of the operator instead of the front. Visibility is also worse. I am a Stiener dealer, so I am biased... I am sure a ventrac dealer would know the flaws of my machine too.