JD 3020/Farmhand loader question

[RickND]

Has anyone ever ran thier loader using one of the rear remotes?

Or is that a bad idea?

The tractor is a 1964 standard with two remotes

F-11 Farmhand loader

It HAD a PTO pump to run the loader.

I thought it would be nice to eliminate the pump so I would'nt have to remove the PTO pump each time I wanted to use the PTO SO ...

The farmer up the road said we could run the hoses from the loader into the remotes and it would work fine ...
but when we hooked it up it worked as follows

Normal up ...

VERY slow down, If I dont push the hanlde all the way forward it actually starts to go up ...

Tilt was slow and some chatter at times.

I know I could have bought a PTO shaft extension but I thought eliminating the pump would be great.

Thanks in advance for any thoughts

Rick

 

[RonR]

No idea why it is working that way. Do you have the hoses crossed, so that the set you ran to the rear is one for tilt and one for lift?

A lot of the JD aftermarket loaders, like GB, ran both sets of hydraulics to the rear remotes. Most guys unhooked the tilt hoses when they wanted to use a rear implement hydraulic.

Ron

 

[RickND]

Ron,

Thanks for the reply

Just looked at the set up and here is what I see ...

Two hoses from one set of the remotes runs into the loader controls

The controls are set up where up/down and tilt controls are side by side
The grapple control is the the right of those a little further away.

Ive tried swaping the hoses and also tried using the other set of remotes but still no help.

I'm also not sure where to set remote operating levers ... my book says they control the remotes and have have 6 operationg positions ...

Thanks again for any/all info

Rick

 

[Kaliburz]

Okay..... here it goes.....

From what I understand, your set up had a tank and PTO driven pump to supply hydraulic power. So you have at least two hydrualic control valves that run the loader.

Now, I'm not quite sure what you are doing..... I know you wanted to eliminate the pump and tank set up and run from the tractor hydraulics. BUT, are you wanting to use the original controls that came w/ the loader OR are you wanting to use the tractor remotes?

If you want to supply the current controls via tractor remotes from the back, it can be done. First, make sure your control valve is set up for a CLOSED CENTER hydraulic system. Odds are, if it was used w/ a PTO pump/self enclosed system, it is a OPEN CENTER valve. Connecting to the tractor will not work w/out converrting the valve (if it can be). I bought a used 3pt back hoe that had it's own pump and tank once. Last owner took those off and connected it to their tractor directly, BUT their hydrulic system was OPEN center. Fortunatley, I tracked down a parts place that sold this brand and found out a CLOSED center convertion kit was available. You might have to check if a kit is avaialble.

The Deere has closed center and will be working constantly if hooked to an open center valve. Okay, another reason for slow action, is the factory flow control. Depending on which modle of 3020 (dash mounted hydraulic controls vs on the right side), there is flow control on the actual valve. The only wya to addjust is to open up the dash to set it to "full". I've never fiddled w/ ours since I'm happy w/ the speed of the hydraulics.

We have a John Deere post pownder w/ a closed center valve that we run off of the remotes (on a 2030). Any how, if set to the slow setting, it raises VERY slow. We tie a rope onto the control lever so it's in the up position, constantly providing oil to the pounder control. Works....

Now, if you want to eliminate the loader controls and use the tractor remote controls direclty, easy. (A friends loader is set up that way). Just remove the cylinder hoses going to the original control valve on the loader, extend them to the back and plug it it. You'll still have to check to make sure your oil flow is set to high. Oh, make sure your hydraulic fluid is full. IF not, when you raise the bucket, it might lower the oil too much (happens w/ low oil) and the bucket tilt tends to be slow....

Hope this helps.

 

[RickND]

Kal,

Thanks for the info ... gona show your E-mail to another tractor brainiac such as yourself tomorrow ...

Hopefully between what you said and what he knows ... I'll have a trouble free loader some time soon.

Thanks again for all inputs ... I'll keep you posted as I try to get her going

GB

Rick

 

[Lindblom Lawn Care]

Used both a 3020 and a 4020 with loaders. Used one set of remotes that went to another set of spools to run the whole operation. Seemed to work well. Seen a 4010 with a farmhand loader, ran a PTO off the mid pto 1000 RPMs

 

[Soundguy]

Many NH tractors also use the rear remotes to run a loader. Seems to be a common occourence.

Soundguy

 

[Kaliburz]

Back in the day, Deere had (to my knowledge) the only closed center hydrualic system. It started w/ the 60's era tractors and ended in the late 90's when the 55 series ended. Well, at least w/ the small tractors used for vineyard/orchard. Big ones, I think stayed closed center for some time....... Now, most of their 5000 series is open center.

But most everyone else used open center hydraulics. Case, Ford, IH...all open center. The Kubota at the local school runs the loader/back hoe off the remotes.

 

[RickND]

First,

Thanks to all for the replies ...

Second ... I've called and spoke to just about anyone who will listen to include a JD mechanic and a Farmhand service mechanic.

All agree I have the open/closed hydro valve problem Kal mentioned.

Each feel the PTO loader pump is the better way to go ...

Considering this I'd LIKE to use a mid PTO pump to run the loader.

So ... Does anyone know of someone who has a mid PTO pump on a 3020?

I called around and no one seems to know what will fit or what type ... GPM I should get ...

Sure would be nice to talk to someone running a mid mount and find out where they got it.

Lastly,

Thanks again for all the help

GB

Rick

 

[Lindblom Lawn Care]

Might check northerntool or the surplus center for a 1000 RPM PTO hydraulic pump. The other thing (this is 12 year old memory) the mid and rear PTO run off the same control and when the PTO is engaged both are spinning.

 

[Kaliburz]

Mid mount is different. I would hazzard a guess that it was in the back?

If there is enough room to directly mount to it, it would work. If not, you would end up having to make a mount to sling it under the tractor, just behind the oil pan. And end up making a short shaft to connect it. By the way....where would you put the oil tank? I recall my buddies 4020 w/ a JD loader....

No matter what, the PTO pumps are pricey. Might have to "endure" the rear PTO pump for some time.....

 

[chadincolo]

I think you are going about things the hard way. You say you don't want to have to pull the pump off the PTO to use PTO equipment, just buy a PTO extension shaft.

http://www.speeco.com/asp/individual_pic_view.asp?category=PTO+Adapters

Part number SP16646, very bottom line. That Farmhand PTO pump on an independant PTO is the best thing to run a loader with, around 30 gpm if memory serves...

 

[robert23239]

I have a deere loader on a 3020 and using hyd remote. I have to pull the lever for that remote to the down position and lock it there. Than I just use the controls on the loader. I use a cotter pin bolted to the console to hold the lever down. Has worked well.

 

[D7E]

Back in the day, Deere had (to my knowledge) the only closed center hydrualic system. It started w/ the 60's era tractors and ended in the late 90's when the 55 series ended. Well, at least w/ the small tractors used for vineyard/orchard. Big ones, I think stayed closed center for some time....... Now, most of their 5000 series is open center.

But most everyone else used open center hydraulics. Case, Ford, IH...all open center. The Kubota at the local school runs the loader/back hoe off the remotes.

Yes ..not sure about an american built 3020 but european 20/30/40 series closed centre had poor hyd performance compared to other brands like IH or ford .
I've had a loaders plumbed this way on a MF 390 and IH674 and ford 6610 that are fine but we could never get away with it on JD's.
My neighbours have borrowed hyd drive equipment like augers ,grain carts etc and failed to run them properly on 3020's and 4020's too