Is AB-1346 The Beginning To The End Of The GARDEN TRACTOR?

[GeneV]

I will just throw this out there, and hope the thread-locking gods don't get frazzled. Maybe it's wisdom or the lack thereof that comes with age, or maybe it really is something to do with events as they unfolded, but ever since 09/11/01 onwards, I've take notice of stuff. I notice how popular movements, government actions, media coverage, scientific data...just all of it, how manipulated it all is by various special interest groups...sometimes to the point of being flat-out lies, with drastic consequences. So I dunno about the "science" of saving the planet. But I will also say, electric cars and mowers just seem cool, I want them for the convenience and quietness.

 

[PILOON]

I'm not against clean energy but can't help wondering how our existing power grids will handle the demand.

OK, they are wanting us to switch many power demands to off hour or night usage to level out the power demand but again if U are in a cold zone with electric heat what will be the outcome?

Added to that scenario many urban areas have banned wood burning and soon even oil based heating to the extent of even banning oil heating repairs after a certain deadline.

Then with smart meters they can adjust rates as they please based on consumption.

 

[3 Horse Ranch]

The market will adapt. Wait until we get version 3.0 of electric tractors.

Those will charge up well during the above mentioned rolling brownouts. We are increasing demand on an already heavily loaded electrical grid. With all the demand for recharging electric cars, electric tools, electric lawn equipment, cell phones, laptops, tablets plus the ban on oil, gas and propane for heating and hot water forcing the all electric home, the grid is going to hit a breaking point. Someday, somewhere, some poor guy will put a slice of bread into a toaster and send the entire continent into a blackout. Planning increased usage without planning increased generation capability is short sighted at best.

 

[priberc]

Change is inevitable and change at ever increasing rates is even more inevitable.

Many countries INCLUDING CANADA plans to phase out ALL INTERNAL COMBUSTION ENGINES for transportation in next 15 years !!! (net zero emissions mandated)

I would suspect the USA is following suit like most of the rest of the world or risk bearing huge penalties for not participating.

2035 EV target​

On June 29, Canada’s Transport Minister Omar Alghabra said that all new cars and light-duty trucks sold will need to be zero-emissions by 2035. Roughly one-quarter of the country’s greenhouse gas emissions comes from transportation, so the new plan adds some momentum to a broader net-zero economy-wide emissions target by 2050.


15 years..... I hope to still be kicking but who knows.... I never thought I would see it but moving fast.

Yes it is moving fast. But for comparison the change from horse and buggy to ICE cars was fast too.....a decade according to some sources. Freight transport in cities was taken over by ICE trucks by the early 20s. If you care to do some more in depth study on it the two have some really stark similarities already.
The free market drove that change from Horse and buggy to ICE. Not slavish adherence to any government policy. Today government policy will help with the needed infrastructure improvements/expansions. Just like I am sure governments in the past helped facilitate the new infrastructure needed to see the rapid growth of the ICE in the early 1900s
Some pretty cheap electricity here and the bean counters have the energy cost of an EV driving 20,000K at 1/4 that of a comparable ICE ....and no oil or filters of any kind as added costs. At the end of the day it will be money and reducing the cost of transportation that will be the main driver of change. Free market 101 "where there is a demand the free market will supply that demand" The only constant is change
IMO the change to EVs ,like ICEs back in the day, will happen first and fastest in cities. If you live in a city don't blink.....you might miss it

 

[GT48DXLS]

Free market 101 "where there is a demand the free market will supply that demand"

I agree with this, well said.

I believe governments forcing people is not the answer. Democracy's require people to be actively heard, participating with healthy debate because the individual is important. For example, in this current law situation we are talking about here, it is not the "free market" demand for electric tools that is leading to this forced removal of gas powered tools for use (or choice to buy and use) for the public.

I won't choose the "nanny state". I would rather leave something good that I've been able to enjoy, to the next generations if possible, or with a clear conscious.

Right now the market has many electric tools next to corded or gas powered tools and as the electric have proven to be comparable or in some cases better than there counterpart alternatives, the market is naturally choosing the better product. The market in free society's should not be forced and doesn't need to be forced.

The next is my personal experience with this issue, if interested.

I believe this is easy, If battery power is actually good enough to replace gas and diesel power, with lower overall cost, than the market will respond accordingly, without government force. The free market can work.

My Ryobi 2 stroke gas blower that was going to cost approximately 68 % of it's original cost to repair after 4?? years or so of use ($100 tool), I could have fixed it, if there's an engine involved, I can rebuild it, but...... A Ryobi 40 volt blower was a bit more in price (alone, I already have the 40 volt system) but thought I would try it, and I freely bought it. I don't have a lot of use but maybe 30 minutes a week for a blower unlike my Garden Tractor. I like the new battery powered ryobi blower, it's as good as the the little gas blower I used to have and it's easy to use. I've put up good reviews of this product already because I believe the product was a good replacement. I also, as a "Free" citizen came to this conclusion for myself and my own needs by myself, without government "help", but because I believe it was "good enough". How long it will last, well we will see. Both battery and tool will need to last at least 4 years to be a comparable replacement to my old gas blower, and we are one year into that.

I use electric actuators (Thompson/Warner) for my bucket and rear sleeve. They are powerful, and work well most of the time. I give up speed and pure force-endurance with them verses hydraulic but I don't need hydraulics most of the time. The biggest problem are with a "Florida Hot Summer Sun" and doing work with them, the heat does take it's toll on them, shutting them down or slowing them down.

If I were in Canada or back in Alaska, the problems might be when the temperatures go down to -40F or there about because of the decreased efficiency of the battery that powers them. Battery's have a max high and low operating temp, also arctic conditions rob energy from a battery with the colder it gets, and you run the risk of damaging cells. Battery's have between 10 and 30 percent losses in the conversion of energy from the wire to chemical storage (the battery) right up front. When brand new, it will hopefuly perform brand new and they like to be in a mild climate for optimum use. In a car that gets 100 miles (realistic) per charge might impact the person of a cold climate worse than a mild climate, but who is looking out for them? If you have an average of 5 to 10 percent loss of efficiency per year from your battery's, than a 3 year old car getting 100 miles new could be at 70 miles and that's not including heat, lights, radio, wipers, etc. This on a freeway commute at -20F could be deadly, quick if your commute is cut short, even due to blizzard, life that happens outside of mild climates. Who will keep the battery's warm when parked at home or at work? Are the cost computing this, like an electric head post for keeping engine oil, battery, etc. warm. At -40 F in AK at the grocery store, the cars are left to run so they won't have starting problems when finished shopping. where is the discussion of how this will impact these people, or is it too bad, move? Gas currently, is still a more reliable source of energy that can be replenished in a vehicle or tool very quickly for extended use.

On my Garden Tractor the actuators are not powered by the 15 max amp stator/alt when they take 25 amps at load to operate, this is why the battery has to be of sufficient size to power them. But because of my needs and where I live, this works fine for me. My Garden Tractor burns approximately 1 gallon of gas per hour and I have days when I work the tractor all day with leveling, moving ground, moving pots, and such. I use the mower deck the least of all its jobs. I know I'm not a majority, but these are my needs and that Kawasaki engine (730) is very reliable and just works. I also can work on it very easily. I would prefer diesel but I can't afford a diesel, so it's gas.

I'm not arguing fossil fuel over electric, I'm arguing the right of free society's to not have the market dictated to them, but the freedom to choose the better product for themselves and there individual needs. Every loss of our freedom of choice in a democracy is a slippery slope to something else.

GT

 

[GT48DXLS]

Also want to add this very clever article by an engineer about electric mowers in case people have missed this one. Very good info.

https://www.stevepake.com/life/2018/5/25/the-truth-about-electric-lawn-mower-horsepower

 

[airbiscuit]

Here are some more powerful options for that engineer.

 

[RalphVa]

My Wife brought something to my attention this morning that was more bad news specific to the "Hobby" most of us share. I did some searching to find out how bad it was and became "Stunned" at the far reaching potential impact that one US State (California) can have on the Nation as a whole, I'm unsure how it might impact our friends up north (Canada) at this time, if any, and those outside of North America may not have any impact from this at all.

California's New Law, AB-1346, signed into law 09OCT2021 that bans ALL residential and commercial gas powered yard equipment by 01JAN2024, That's 786 days or 2 years by my calculation starting with today. A ban on all small engines 25hp and under with these temporary exemptions for now, on-road motor vehicles, off-road motorcycles, all-terrain vehicles, boats, snowmobiles, model airplanes, or cars. The exempt vehicles are mandated to have zero emission mandates by CARB, by 2035 at the latest.

Examples of what is banned,

Lawn Mowers, Lawn and Garden Tractors, Snow Blowers, Leaf Blowers, Rototillers, Portable Water Pumps, Fence Post Augers, Chain Saws, String Trimmers, Generators (by 2028), Golf Carts, and specialty Vehicles, to name a few. Zero emission is defined as electric battery powered or plug-in, not Natural Gas or Propane.

This forum is about Lawn and Garden Tractors and the unique role they play in our lives. Though California residents are losing some valuable freedoms here, for those in other States that think they are in the clear, you may need to reconsider how this law may impact you by which State you live in. This law mandates CARB (California Air Resources Board) to regulate the ban of all small engine yard equipment (25hp and under by 01JAN 2024 as the first of many new mandates to come). CARB is stricter than the US EPA (Environmental Protection Agency) and is allowed to act outside of the EPA and so far, there are 15 States that have adopted CARB as there standard with 3 more pending adoption.

The current US States that have adopted CARB are as follows,

1) California
2) New York
3) Massachusetts
4) Vermont
5) Maine
6) Pennsylvania
7) Connecticut
8) Rhode Island
9) Washington
10) Oregon
11) New Jersey
12) Maryland
13) Delaware
14) Colorado
15) Virginia

The three current pending States to adopt CARB are as follows,

1) Minnesota
2) Nevada
3) New Mexico

For California, I'm sorry, it's over for now, but for those in the other States, maybe something can still be done? I don't know.

I can't find one piece of equipment that can take over the job of the Garden Tractor as an electric option for in the cold and blowing snow as an example of what's being lost, at least in the residential market. For those thinking AG such as a SCUT to get around these laws, maybe? But residential Zoning may prohibit as a Code Violation the use of AG equipment in a Residential zone, but either way, it looks like you have two years if you can get supply, and to be "Grandfathered" with a new Garden Tractor and or snow blower or? Before CARB ends the supply and choice for you.

I have left the actual law in PDF for all of you plus links.

Link to the law,

The Law, AB-1346 as of 09OCT2021, to go into effect no later than 01JAN2024,
Bill Text - AB-1346 Air pollution: small off-road engines.

Links to the developing story,

The LA Times, 09OCT2021,
California moves toward ban on gas lawn mowers and leaf blowers

The Wall Street Journal, 12OCT2021,
California moves toward ban on gas lawn mowers and leaf blowers

The Washington Post, 12OCT2021,
https://www.washingtonpost.com/clim...12/california-newsom-law-equipment-pollution/

FOX News Channel, 18OCT2021,
California: Gas-powered lawn equipment tops long list of things banned by Newsom

Car and Driver, 19OCT2021
California Enacts Ban on Gas-Powered Lawn Mowers, Leaf Blowers

CNET, 22OCT2021,
https://www.cnet.com/home/yard-and-...-lawn-mowers-what-to-know-about-the-new-rule/

Link to the EPA and CARB explanation on Wiki,

Wikipedia, Clean Air Act, CARB, description,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_vehicle_emission_standards

Links to the participation CARB States,

Autoweek, 19MAR2019,
What are CARB states, ZEV states and 'smile' states? Autoweek explains

Maryland Department of the environment, (Current)
States Adopting California's Clean Cars Standards

Bloomberg Law, 26MAR2021,
States Adopt California Car Rules Amid National Standards Debate

CarsDirect, 22SEP2021,
https://www.carsdirect.com/deals-articles/what-are-carb-emission-states

-GT

Wow! First I'd seen this apparently old thread. Actually good news. Efficiency of EVs is A LOT higher than that of any combustion engine powered thing: about 80-90% vs. 25-40% (with the upper # probably hybrids which are not on any tractors). Garden tractors, in particular, are probably in the lower end and possibly even lower efficiency if carburetors are still being used, and gasoline. Probably below 20%. 80% goes as losses to the air.

I've eliminated all small engine gasoline powered stuff. Using 40v tools for grass whipping, hedge trimming, chain sawing, lawn mowing. Even have a 48v Ryobi ZTR. A LOT easier on ME. No engine starting problems.

 

[3 Horse Ranch]

Here are some more powerful options for that engineer.

None of the tractors had a FEL. Only one showed the possible use of hydraulics. How well do they operate on hills? How well to they operate in subfreezing temperatures. How long do the batteries last doing something like rototilling 10 acres?
They are definitely they way of the future but they have a ways to go yet before we see them at our local compact tractor dealer.

 

[airbiscuit]