is a pt right for me?(long)

[fishhead]

Now it's my turn to ask the old-what should I get question. here is my situation. Have 2 properties:

1-6 acres mostly forest and scree some mowing (mix of brush hogging and small lawn),hilly with 1/2 mile gravel drive in northwest Montana. we get a little over 100 inches annually but usually in alot of smaller snows.
want to use tractor for maintaining road(winter and summer), helping with thinning forest. brush hogging and small amount of mowing.

2-30 acres mostly woods, very hilly transitioning to bottom land. Uses here small amount of mowing, mostly clearing and maintaining old roads and brush hogging some forestry and road/trail building. Winter clearing to be done with ariens walk behind blower
(1336 dle pro-anybody know any thing good or bad on this?)

previous tractor was ford 1710 for brush hogging and loader work with a 12 hp gravely handling the mowing and blowing

currently the front runners seem to be:

1.kubota 7800,3030,used 2910- seem very nice, my concerns are stability on steeper terrain and whether they are large enough to grade my road (have no experience grading). Resale seems good and 3ph implements are every where. Seem fairly agile for a CUT.

2.PT 1430-like the PT concept a lot-especially the stability,agility and ease of changing implements. Maintenance and lack of dealers don't scare me a ton but they temper the resale value which means if I get one I better be fairly sure it's the right thing. true concerns are winter starts, NVH (noise vibration and harshness) and how well it would do maintaining the roads (have read comments on TBN that ground engagement is not their strong suit). Is the 1430 the right size?
attachments are proprietary, resale fair,freight cost significant to montana

3.Toolcat family-only listed because I love the feature set- existing models are too large I believe (tow weight and overall size a concern)-smaller model said to be coming. Great resale, attachments widely available

Friend just got a PT 425 (atwood ) which I should get to use in a couple of weeks and I might be able to get to Tazewell soon after.
Just trying to get experienced inputs in the interim.

thoughts?

Many Thanks

 

[toolz_not_toyz]

With that much acreage I'd most certainly go with a 1430. I think the PT would be much more flexible than a Kubota. But then the Kubota would have the higher resale value. Of course, if you're not going to sell it won't matter much and you're right about needing to make the right decision. You can't return a PT...says so right on the order form you need to fill out to buy one.

Shipping for me, for a PT 425 plus maybe two pallets of accessories will be around $1800 and that's going all the way to the West coast.

 

[MossRoad]

Welcome to TBN! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

You are asking yourself the correct questions. I have never done any road maintenance with our PT425, only a large, industrial tractor/loader with a 6' box blade.

Anyone out there with a PT doing road maintenance???

 

[jfh28]

One of the main chores for my pt is drive maintainence. I'm 1/4 mile long gravel. My initial reactions on the pt is that it should be fine with the maintain part but it is not going to do any heavy duty grading. It is not a cat dozer.

I have found that if I keep the bite relatively shallow and make mutiple passes I can knock down the humps and do a good job of smoothing things back out. If it's loose gravel you can just throw the blade in float and go. But for the packed stuff I need to be able to raise and lower the blade so I 'm not cutting to far in otherwise I immediately start to crab.

What the blade can't do I use the grapple bucket with the teeth to break it up first. If it's really a mess then I turn the machine around and use the hoe. It's also easier to cut into things after it rains.

We are also heavily wooded and I whole heartedly recommend the grapple bucket. By far my favorite attachment. Even used it to remove the window a/c's. Just put it under the window and pushed the a/c out into the bucket instead of hauling it thru the house. PT is definitely making me lazy.

I would suggest that you test drive the machines you are thinking about. It's the only way to know for sure. For me within 5 minutes of being on one I knew it was right.

Jack

 

[Robert259]

I have the 1430 with 10 acres of heavily wooded, hilly terrain. The box blade is excellent for maintaining and existing gravel road. I also use it and the small bucket with teeth for cutting new trails. I also use the stump grinder a lot. In addition to grinding stumps, it also does a pretty good job of clearing small saplings. I don't have the rough cut mower yet, but from what I hear, it would be a real asset in your type of terraiin. The lowest temperatures that I have seen in SC since I have had the tractor has been about 15 degrees. It has not yet failed to start. I love the diesel engine. It is easy to maintain as is the complete tractor.

 

[fishhead]

Thanks Robert, does your gravel drive have just fine stone in it or are there some larger rocks? if there are bigger stones and some rocks how does the box blade do? Do the drive motors deal with the load well when the box blade is cutting? It looks like the front blade is not especially beefy-I was thinking it might be better for snow than grading.

Anyone with comments on starting the deutz in a cold climate?, I have read conflicting posts about the ability to put a block heater in it, no glow plug possibility.

also concerned about noise

Thanks again

 

[Robert259]

I got a real good deal on paving the drive about 2 years ago, so it is no longer gravel. When it was, the stone varied up to 2". The box blade takes a little time to get used to it but it does a much better job of leveling than the blade. It is pretty heavy duty and the 1430 has never bogged down. I have the bar tread tires which I think gives better traction in this environment. Some disagree.

The small bucket with teeth digs well. Our soil here is hard, red clay. Before I had the drive way paved, I used the tractor to change the camber of the drive in a couple of places to improve the drainage. In one area, I removed approximately 100' (linear) to a depth of approximately 4' of hard packed red clay (It had been driven on for about 10 years). It took a little work digging with the bucket (the minihoe would have surely helped, but I don't have one). I was amazed with the tractors ability to do this work.

I also ran into some large granite boulders (one was about 3' in diameter). Those that the tractor couldn't lift, I was able to push on the ground to get them out of the way. I must say that I had a blast doing this. It really releaves the tensions and frustrations of life.

 

[BrianSouthernMD]

Fishhead, long gravel road maintenance is a key task for me, too. I considered Power Trac 14xx and 18xx models before going with my Bobcat Toolcat 5600 Turbo.

Bobcat makes Toolcats near you, in North Dakota, and has addressed the winter start concerns you have with PTs. Toolcats have glow plugs /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif and offer engine block heaters, plus a range of heavy-duty snow blowers (26 GPM high-flow! /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif), plows & blades for your 100+ inches per season. With its cab, suspension and four-cylinder Kubota engine, Bobcat also takes care of your NVH (noise, vibration & harshness) issues with large PTs.

I think the Toolcat 5600 might be the right size for you, if you can solve the transport between your two properties. (If your props are within 20 or so miles of each other, you could just drive the Toolcat between them at 18 mph!) The rumored but not-yet-announced smaller Toolcat 4200 likely won't allow the 26 GPM high-flow snowblower attachment, for example.

Before you head east in a few weeks to visit your friend with the 425 and maybe Tazewell, arrange with your local Bobcat dealer to demo a Toolcat WITH multiple attachments (incl. box blade / scrapper, etc.). Have him deliver the test Toolcat to at least one (and preferably both) of your properties!

Power Tracs and Toolcats each offer their own advantages as well as concerns for you and your terrain. A PT 1845/1850 will be better than a Toolcat on the very steepest of slopes, for example. Have fun in your search and BE SURE TO EXTENSIVELY DEMO multiple machines, on your properties whenever possible! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[toolz_not_toyz]

Aren't those Toolcats something like $30K with no attachments? Big price difference between a 1430 and a Toolcat.

 

[tracdoc]

Ahhh, yup... Machine only MSRP is ~$32,500. But Toolz, you have to consider that the price includes heat and A/C /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif. The 3-blade mower is ~$3,800 /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif, while the bucket is around $600. By the time you just modestly outfit one of those pups, it will run you some $40k, and the sky is the limit from there. Bobcat has a raft of different attachments for almost every possible need. I don't know if dealers discount these units. Even if they do, I would guess that at their price point they will appeal primarily to the professional who can amortize the costs over time. Weight may be a consideration for some users. The machine w/o attachments weighs in at a robust 4,400#.

 

[BrianSouthernMD]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Aren't those Toolcats something like $30K with no attachments? Big price difference between a 1430 and a Toolcat.)</font>
Pricing is true if the Toolcat 5600 is loaded with 56hp Turbo, cab enclosure with doors/HVAC, and high-flow aux. hyd., but less if stripped of such options. It will vary among dealers, but many Bobcat dealers routinely provide discounts off "suggested" list price and the manufacturer periodically provides incentives.

But fishhead also is asking our opinion about whether or not the 1430 is the right sized machine for him, and seems willing to explore larger PTs as well as Toolcats, if such other machines address concerns he has with 1430. Would the heavier PT 1445 or PT 1845 machines be better for box blade work and other road maintenance than the 1430, or be quieter/have less NVH?

 

[KentT]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( By the time you just modestly outfit one of those pups, it will run you some $40k, and the sky is the limit from there)</font>

I take it that means you guys don't use either a Rolls or a Bentley for a commuter vehicle... /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[Rip]

Fishhead,

I have a PT 1845 with the 3 cyl 45 HP Deutz at 8000 ft in Colorado and installed an intake-air pre-heat type glow plug (available from Deutz, but don't bother with the "kit") that certainly helps in cold weather starting (you can even install two). My machine has been kept outside and has not failed to start when I needed it although that was not in the absolute coldest temperatures.

The 1430 is quite a capable machine. I chose the 1845 more for the steeper slope capability (up to 40 degrees) AND the BrakeTender system, that in my opinion provides a real fail-safe emergency disc brake rather than just a pin-type parking brake that only functions when already at rest as the 1430 comes with. (The 1445 has a true emergency disc brake as well, although perhaps not quite as powerful as the BrakeTender system.)

With foam-filled tires my machine is nearly the same weight as the ToolCat 5600 and I can still lose traction well before I lose power. While some have fashioned nice cabs for the PT machines you are pretty much on your own in this regard, and thus the PT may not be your ideal choice for Montana snow removal. I use a Western plow on a 3/4 PU for my primary snow removal on about a mile of private dirt road and turn-arounds and the PT only for special areas and clean up.

The ToolCat had just come out when I got my PT and slope capability was my top concern at the time. I find myself now looking hard and long at the ToolCat for many other reasons even though it can not match the PT on steep slopes. I just "may" find myself with two machines.

In any case I feel that either is significantly more versitile for your situation than a CUT such as the Kubota. The ToolCat is more $$$, but should hold its value quite well. Good luck with whatever you choose!!

 

[toolz_not_toyz]

I'm just pointing out that there is a huge price difference between a 1430 (well, even the biggest tractor that PT sells) and a Toolcat. I grant you that the Toolcat is an impressive machine and the cab looks downright cozy. Heck, if you could drive the thing faster you wouldn't even need a car! If you can afford it, or at least justify the premium, I say: Go for it! But to keep the discussion honest, it's important to compare apples to apples. A 1430 with attachments will probably top out at the cost of the base Toolcat.

 

[BrianSouthernMD]

KentT,
I spent twice as much on my new Toolcat and seven attachments as I did on my used road vehicle (a 99 SUV), and that's just fine by me! My aim is to also spend twice as much time on/in the TC! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[KentT]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( A 1430 with attachments will probably top out at the cost of the base Toolcat.

)</font>
A 1430 is $16,000 -- are you suggesting another $16,000 or so in attachments? That would be NICE set of attachments...

Of course you'd also have to allow for delivery charges, if you wanted to really compare head-to-head...

 

[KentT]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( KentT,
I spent twice as much on my new Toolcat and seven attachments as I did on my used road vehicle (a 99 SUV), and that's just fine by me! My aim is to also spend twice as much time on/in the TC! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif )</font>

Brian,

I'd love to be able to rationalize a new Toolcat with all the toys. But, for my needs/priorities I couldn't even rationalize a new PT with all the toys I wanted. I found a good used one, instead.

 

[toolz_not_toyz]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( A 1430 is $16,000 -- are you suggesting another $16,000 or so in attachments? That would be NICE set of attachments...)</font>

That's exactly what I mean. You can outfit a 1430 very nicely for the same money. Granted, in the middle of winter in Montana you probably won't want to sit in the 1430 for too long and the Toolcat would be cozy. But then I seem to remember another thread mentioning something about an old pickup with a snow blade would make a much better snow removal machine than a PT.

 

[KentT]

Speaking of winter in Montana, and having experienced how much hot air a PT-425's cooling fan can push -- it would be a piece of cake to make a deflector to direct some of that air onto the driver, once it warmed up enough to kick that fan on... certainly wouldn't be a cozy, tight cab, but at least it would be some heat. Further, it would also be easy to put a plastic or plexiglass windshield on the ROPS to keep blowing wind and snow out of your face. So, you could have heat at your back and a windshield in front quite easily.... /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

 

[fishhead]

here's another thing I have thought of trying- the local bobcat dealer is also the kubota dealer and they have a used 2910 in stock. My thought would be that if bobcat was going to do a mini it probably would be ideal and to work out a deal on the 2910 with eventual trade-in in mind. Am I nuts? Also Brian my properties are about 4 hours apart and I would prefer to avoid getting something big enough to comfortably tow a 5600 with attachments. Ideally I might have machines in both places but that's just more money and hassle. I hope they build the minicat- I don't think they would need to go really low in price as the features would justify a premium over the mid size CUTs I see them competing against- To me a good target would be 3000 pounds, 1000 to 1200 pound lift, 1000 to 1200 pound cap rear dump 130" length and 20 to 25K$. I think they might sell a bunch also a touch shorter wheelbase and a few inches narrrower. I better be careful or this thread will get moved to toolcat land. thanks for all your insights and keep em coming.