Is 40 acres Enough for a Golf Course?

cowboydoc · Jul 24, 2003

I don't think they charge so much on actual time spent but what they think it will be. All the ones I've ever dealt with I got a quote before. They will go look at the area or it they're familiar with the property just give you a quote over the phone. In the ones I've dealt with they always will send out a proposal first giving the area to be done and the price. You then sign this and send it back and they then do it. After it's done you then have to get a new abstract drawn up to make everything legal.

Golfgar4 · Jul 24, 2003

Richard,

Thanks! /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

That's really helpful. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

dmccarty · Jul 24, 2003

GolfGar,

Yep surveys are expensive and yes one does have to learn
ALOT when one starts buying land. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I had the surveyors come out and reflag a common lot line
where we are building our house as well as a property line
between us and a neighbor. The neighbor should have paid
for the common line survey since that idiot tore down the old
survey markers and was building a house without knowing
where HIS land was located. He then was selling the house
without knowing where HIS land was located. When he
started to put in the septic field which ran within 10 feet or
so of my land I paid for the survey fee. Much cheaper then
the court costs when the he put the septic field into my land.

After the survey was done, a few months later, he saw the
flags, ripped them down where I would not easily see it. He
is long gone. But the people who bought the house pulled
up the metal survey stakes as well. Claimed they did not
know what they where. I kinda believe them since they had
no experience with this stuff. They are now gone and we
will have new neighbors soon.... /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif Can't wait.

Anyway, I paid something like $250 PER line that was
surveyed. They should and did find a corner and work from
there. In my case this is all in woods and they had a four
man crew brushcutting and marking the line. It took them a
good day. I can't remember if they came back a second
day. So it cost me around 500 dollars to have roughly 1,400
feet of land surveyed. Well worth it. The crew was from the
same company that did the original survey and platt work
years ago so they had everything they needed in the office.
They also did one heck of a good job. My impression is that
they had a set price for a given distance to survey.

When the neighbor was selling the house they got a cheap
surveyor. They got what they paid for. They ended up
having to pay for a second surveyor. I suspect highly that
the corner marker we share is not accurately placed. I know
where the origional marker was located and the new one
does not match the spot. You could see where the guy was
trying to get the pipe in the ground and kept hitting rocks.
Eventually he found a soft spot..... /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif But it ain't where its
supposed to be.

I'm sure there has been a new survey since the house just
sold again. It will be interesting to see where the piple has
moved this time. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

Long story as usual. But get a good surveyor. They are
worth the money. Other wise its too easy to slip into The
Neighbor Feud Situation.

Good luck,
Dan McCarty

Golfgar4 · Jul 24, 2003

( But get a good surveyor. They are
worth the money. Other wise its too easy to slip into The
Neighbor Feud Situation.
)

Dan,

Thanks for relating your story. Very enlightening! /forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

I thought I might try to find out who did the survey when the current owner sold the other "back 40". I figured if they were a reputable outfit, it might save some time and money since they would have some familiarity with the property.

( In my case this is all in woods and they had a four
man crew brushcutting and marking the line. )

Well, at least that won't be a problem! This property is all gently rolling farm land! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Bird · Jul 24, 2003

Garry, it may be "customary" for the seller to provide a survey; perhaps it depends on the asking price, value of the property, or something else. But when we sold our little 10 acre place last year, the buyer asked about a survey. I didn't have one, but there were old metal survey stakes still in the 4 corners of the property and it was fenced all the way around except on the front (road) side. He also asked if I'd had the property appraised, and I told him the only appraisal I had was the tax appraisal. Well, he wanted a new survey and a professional appraisal and I told him I didn't blame him one bit, that it was good idea, but that I wouldn't pay for either one, whether or not he bought the place. So he arranged for and paid for both. I don't even know what it cost him. The appraisal came out 6% higher than our asking price and the survey claimed the property was 4" wider across the back of the 10 acres than we thought. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif Did he get his money's worth from the appraisal and survey? I don't know. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Golfgar4 · Jul 24, 2003

( Did he get his money's worth from the appraisal and survey? )

Hi Bird!

I suppose the answer to that question would be determined on what the difference in your asking price and the 6% increase in the appraisal price was, and whether it was more than the cost of the appraisal and the survey. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

I think since we're going to be asking the survey to identify the individual parcels, the cost is going to be a little bit higher than just a straight survey! /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

dummy · Jul 28, 2003

To throw a wrench into the thinking process.....subdivides are different from house location surveys, are different from boundary surveys, are different from corner locates, are different from GPS surveys, get the idea? For what you're interested in (somewhere around 10 - 3 acre lots plus the 10 for you) don't be too surprised if you get some hourly rate quotes instead of flat rates. You're talking about getting 11 deeds and 11 plats (maps), etc. What about perc sites(10 +), do you have sewer lines available? Every parcel may not be sellable individually. Not to be the gloomy gus, but local (mine) rates being what they are, ballpark numbers would be $15000.00

MarkV · Jul 28, 2003

Gary,

I to do not want to discourage you though I do agree that it will cost more than you are thinking to sub divide the 40 acres into individual tracts for resale. We have a family piece of land that is 90 acres and has recently been sub divided into 33 tracts. To meet the local requirements we had to have a survey, perk test of each lot, Health department approval, an evaluation by the state Department of Natural Resources, approval of the county road department for the access road, to name a few of the requirements. These were all required before we could apply to the county commission for approval of the sub division. We are approved and are now allowed to run utilities and develop the road. The price at this point is something in excess of 40,000.

Your situation is completely different in that we have lots from 1.5 to 6 acres. It would not cost you near as much but you need all of the facts before you decide. If we had stayed about 5 acres for each lot the costs and permits would have been much less.

On another piece of property (32 acres) that my wife and I have just bought we were quoted $500 to mark the perimeter of the property for fencing by the surveyor that did the last survey. Two years ago the same surveyor cut a 5 acre tract out of the property and filed all information at the courthouse for $1200.

MarkV

Golfgar4 · Jul 28, 2003

Thanks for the rundown! /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

Seriously, we did know that there were a lot of other factors that would have to be considered. I wasn't yet aware that the surveyor might provide an hourly estimate. You can imagine that our entire weekend was spent, in and around doing our normal business, discussing this project. We ran numbers until they were coming out our ears! /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

We have decided that while we're compiling all of this other information, we're going to find out how long the first 40 sub divided acres took to sell once they were available and what they sold for. Those sites varied in size also, as far as we can tell.

( Your situation is completely different in that we have lots from 1.5 to 6 acres. )

Mark,

Thanks for the info. I don't know if our situation is that much different than yours was, based on the information you provided. We have decided that if we do this, we'll keep the parcels to nothing less than 3 acres just so we can get the parcels approved as Ag2 rather than rural residential. That would also help in automatically creating some space between properties so that we could avoid the Pretopia syndrome that Rancar mentioned.

MarkV · Jul 29, 2003

Garry,
In rereading my post I wanted to be sure I was clear on one point. The requirements we had to meet do not vary regionally, they very from county to county and town to town around here. There just isn't a good way to know until you check locally, sounds like you and the Miss'es are already doing that. Reading between the lines, I would guess your Ag2 zoning is similar to what ours is for 5 acre or better tracts when dividing a property. At that point you eliminate a large number of expensive mandates. In our case, dropping below 5 acres mandated paved roads to specific standards, fire protection, county water (because of availability) and many other things. Above 5 acres gravel roads and wells would have been fine in our zoning. Our budget has reached an estimated cost of $9,400 per lot for development. Though certainly not guaranteed the family is hoping for a 40% better return on the land, after the investment, than selling it undeveloped. I only mention prices as a base of comparison. It helps me to have a ballpark idea of what to expect before my jaw drops when prices are quoted.

Like any real-estate purchase you have to evaluate the location, local demand and current similar land prices against the cost of development. Then you make your best guess as to what the future holds, put down your money and hope for the best. Here we can not expect the lots to sell overnight so it must be viewed as a longer-term investment. The situation could well be different in your area. Personally, it looks to me like you are on to something and I would put forth the effort to investigate it as much as I could. At the very least you will have a better education when looking at the next one. For what it is worth, we found the local surveyor to be one of the better resources when we started the process.

MarkV