Is 40 acres Enough for a Golf Course?

Golfgar4 · Jul 15, 2003

( What would you consider the going rate for acreage in your area without buildings?
)

Hi Mark,

I really don't know what the going rate is right now. Our realtor told us that this is a good price and that we should be able to get them to come down some. This parcel just kind of popped up without any warning. We really hadn't planned to start actively searching for property until about this time next year, so we hadn't done a lot of research yet.

( It sure is nice to see those farm building in such good shape. )

Yes it is. That's one thing we've been concerned about. We were hoping to find something that we could comfortably live in until the new house was built. Most of the places that we've seen as we've just driven around had some pretty badly deterioated buildings that would need extensive work to get them livable, especially if you wanted to sell them once the new place was finished.

Golfgar4 · Jul 23, 2003

Here's an update to this thread. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

We visited the farm last evening with our realtor. We met the owners, a real nice older couple who are ready to "downsize" into an easier life. They were very friendly and more than willing to answer any questions that we had.

The original house was built in 1934, and was one of those 2 story square houses that had the same size rooms on both floors. About 8 years ago, the owners added an addition that included a larger kitchen, dining room, family room, master bedroom, small 2 car garage, central air conditioning, and a full basement under the addition. The addition wasn't really very well planned out, so the house has a bit of a disjointed feel to it, although it is comfortable enough to live in for a few years while our place was being built. At the time the addition was added on, they also installed a new septic system and upgraded the well.

After touring the house, we went outside to look over the rest of it. I had brought along the digital camera to add some more pics to our file and to post for you guys, but the wife forget to charge it up while she was on her week long trip to Ohio! /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif I'll have to catch some photos if we go out there again.

The shed that is at the end of the main driveway, which you can see in the 6th picture I posted, is the area where the owner does most of the work on his farm equipment. In the open end, the floor used to be concrete at one time, but it has pretty much disintegrated now. A close look revealed that a little work in cleaning it out would be all that was needed to pour a new floor. Ah, another reason to get the tractor! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif A walk through door into the back of the shed takes you into a couple of large bays that were at one time horse stalls, but have been turned into a maintenance shop. It was very dirty, but some power spraying and a little white paint would yield a really nice work shop. The pictures really didn't show that the larger barn you can see is actually the top floor of this shed. I had thought that the barn was a separate building. We decided not to go up into that portion of barn because of the steep stairs. I didn't see any way of getting equipment up there, so it must be used just for storage.

After exiting the shed, we walked around towards the back where the storage bins are. I was surprised to find a pole barn located between the shed and the storage bins. It doesn't really show up in the earlier pictures to the degree that I thought it was part of the barn. This pole barn must have been at least 100' long and 40' wide, and was enclosed on the 2 long sides (on one of the long sides only half way) and the short end. It had a dirt floor.

After leaving the pole barn, we just meandered our way back to the house. On the way, I happened to look up and discovered that the shed and barn had what appeared to be a completely new roof on it. The owner confirmed that the roof had been installed last summer at the same time when he had all the storage bin motors rebuilt. I asked him what the capacity of the storage bins was, and he said 180,000 bushels. This is just for the silver storage bins, not the larger blue ones in the last picture. He told us that he presently doesn't have anyone renting the storage bins out because there were supposed to be some new ones built in a town about 10 miles from him. But apparently the deal fell through and they won't be built, so he expects that some of his regular customers will be calling again. I asked him how much he charged for the use of the bins, and he replied $0.02 per bushel. I'll have to check and see if that's the going rate in the area.

It's really a nice farm. There aren't a lot of trees, other than the few that are just around the house. This is something we would've liked to have had. I guess this makes sense, though, since it is a farm! /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif We'll be getting a topographical map of the area, plus I'm in the process of getting an estimate from a couple of surveyor's as to the cost of having the 40 acres surveyed. We're also getting the information concerning the zoning restrictions in the township. Have a lot to do in a very short time just so we can decide if we want to make an offer. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

Just thought you might be interested how the project is developing. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

RobS · Jul 23, 2003

Sounds like a very nice place Garry. Keep us posted on the deal. A place like that could just the ticket to justify a much larger tractor /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Slamfire · Jul 24, 2003

In every real estate deal I've ever been involved in the owner provided the survey. It is gonna run a couple of thousand dollars. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

Golfgar4 · Jul 24, 2003

I just found out yesterday that if we want to consider sub dividing the 40 acres, we would have to get the current owners to apply for re-zoning. This would only be if we wanted to make the purchase contingent on the approval of the re-zoning. We, of course, would pay the cost of the application for re-zoning and the survey, which would need to be done before submitting the application for re-zoning.

Currently, the property is zoned Ag1. The Township Supervisor our realtor spoke with said that we could request the property be re-zoned as Rural Residential or Ag2. With Rural Residential, there could be parcels as small as 1 acre. With Ag2, the smallest parcel had to be 3 acres. He "suggested" that an application for Ag2 would be approved without any problem, but one for Rural Residential would almost assuredly not be approved.

( In every real estate deal I've ever been involved in the owner provided the survey )

I can't imagine that the current owners would be willing to pay for the survey that would sub divide the property. They really don't have any incentive to do that, other than being a nice guy to a potential buyer. We do have a copy of the plot map we got from the County Clerks office, so we know all of the "official" boundary lines. This map was just recently done when the first 40 acres was sold off, so the information should be very accurate. At least for the outside boundary lines, anyway.

I knew having the survey done would be somewhat expensive, but a couple thousand?!? /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif Do you have any experience with survey companies? Do they usually provide estimates? Is there any special information I need to give them, other than the location of the property and what we'd like to do with it? How long does it take for them to do a survey?

It is truly amazing how much a person has to learn once they get into an area they are not particularly familar with! /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

rancar · Jul 24, 2003

I asked him how much he charged for the use of the bins, and he replied $0.02 per bushel. I'll have to check and see if that's the going rate in the area. 

Garry,

Is that on an annualized basis? If so, it comes out to $3,600 per year (assuming storage bins are used to the max). This, plus whatever you are able to charge for renting out the land for crops, would produce a nice income stream that should nicely offset whatever property taxes you'll have to pay.

...Bob

Golfgar4 · Jul 24, 2003

( Is that on an annualized basis? )

Bob,

Yes, it is. It was kind of funny on the way home. My wife asked me if she heard right, he got $0.02 per bushel and there was storage for 180,000 bushels. I said that was what he said. She said...."WOW! that's $36,000.00 a year!" I chuckled and suggested that she move the decimal point over spot to the left. /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Yeah, we would include that information for the bank if and when we went after the financing. I also need to find out the going rate for leasing/renting the land out. The current owner doesn't do that himself, so I didn't think to ask him about it, although he probably would've known.

I don't have the real estate spec sheet with me, but if I recall, property taxes were just under $9,000.00 a year.

rancar · Jul 24, 2003

I knew having the survey done would be somewhat expensive, but a couple thousand?!? Do you have any experience with survey companies? 

Garry,

Yep,....these survey companies do charge this much. When we bought our additional 38 acre parcel about 3 years ago that adjourns our original 118 acre parcel our attorney suggested doing a parcel survey just so we and all our adjourning property owners knew where our respective property lines were located. We opted not to do this since we had no real plans to develop this parcel and we get along well enough with all our neighbors in terms of respecting our respective property lines. But, we were told it could cost about $1,500.

...Bob

cowboydoc · Jul 24, 2003

The only time in my dealings that the owner paid for the subdividing was when he was selling off a chunk of the land. Or if he sold the land as being zoned a different way then he would do it. In your case the land is being sold as is so there is no reason for the owner to do the survey.

A couple thousand to do the survey is cheap from what I've had done. Especially for what you are wanting to do. We just split 40 acres off of my ranch back home for my little brother to build on. It was $1600 for that and then another $400 for the abstract.

Golfgar4 · Jul 24, 2003

( In your case the land is being sold as is so there is no reason for the owner to do the survey.
)

That's what I thought.

Do the surveyors just charge based on time spent doing the work, or are there other factors involved?