Is 40 acres Enough for a Golf Course?

rancar · Jul 14, 2003

Garry,

"...but I might consider continuing to lease/rent it out to other local farmers if the revenue would pay the taxes, etc. How much could someone in that situation expect to recover on an annual basis? And how much could you get by renting out the silos?.." 

We own 158 acres with our place and we currently rent 60 acres to a local farmer who plants corn and alfalfa on a rotational basis. He pays us $30/acre or $1,800 annually. This isn't enough to pay the taxes on the property but it sure helps. This is the going rate in my neighborhood....actually it's a bit higher than what others are earning on their rental properties. I would also think you could rent these silos and the barn buildings for hay or equipment storage to the local farmers. I'm not sure what the going rate on this is though.

Here's my two cents on breaking up this parcel. I feel like the other guys who have posted. I hate seeing large parcels of prime farmland broken up for development purposes. But, the more important question one has to ask is, "If I don't parcel up the property, will the next property owner do it?" Unfortunately, this is becoming a prevalent trend in America and one that no solitary rural property owner can change. Where you can have a difference is a say in how this property is parceled up if you choose to go this route. You can determine lot size and boundaries that may make it difficult for a purchaser to subsequently break it up into even smaller parcels. This is a hard issue for some and in my case I think about it frequently as I see this happening around me.

In spite of all this, it's a beautiful property from what I can see in the pics. And, my guess was pretty well on the mark in terms of price. Offer $330K and see what the owners say.

...Bob

rancar · Jul 14, 2003

"...Another question that is raised is in relation to the other property around this parcel. As I indicated in a previous reply, there is already some development going on. It would appear that other farmers/owners are selling off their property which is then being developed. That begs the question as to how long it would be before we'd feel like we were back in the city! I think the land is far enough out that we probably wouldn't see it annexed into any community during our time..." 

Garry....you raise some very good points here. What it sounds like is Penturbia creeping out to this locale where this farm you're looking at is located. See my initial post in the following thread I posted last year entitled "Penturbia." It brings up interesting discussion that dovetails with what you are grappling with now.

Penturbia

...Bob

Golfgar4 · Jul 14, 2003

Bob -

Very interesting information on Penturbia. You're observation about it applying to this location is correct. Evidence of it can be seen in just about any direction you go from where this farm is located. And all of the parcels that are being built on appear to be in that 2 - 5 acre range.

Thanks for the information. Just more to try to "digest" and factor into the big picture! /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

jwstewar · Jul 14, 2003

Good luck with it Garry. Looks like a nice piece of property. I'm going to go against the grain here, I'll probably get flamed but I don't care.. If you want to buy the property and then subdivide it go for it. If you don't the next guy will and then you still won't have the property you wanted or the money earned from dividing it. I currently live on 7 acres that was divided out of probably a 40 acre farm and we love it. Neighbors aren't to close, but yet they are close enough that if there were to be a problem we could get there pretty quick. Good luck with your purchase and whatever you decide to do.

dmccarty · Jul 14, 2003

GolfGar,

How much land do you want to end up with from the 40 acres?

When we started looking for land years ago we figured we
wanted thousands of acres. Course we can't afford
that! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif So we thought we should get 20-30 acres but
the price for what we where seeing was going to require us
to settle for 15-20 acres.

Now we ended up with 54 acres. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif The money has
worked out because we could timber part of the property.
It took us three good years just to find the place and it is
98% of what we wanted. Can't ask for much more than that
I supposed.

We are planning on selling 5 acres to my parents and holding
on to the rest. So we would have 49-50 acres. If pushed
money wise we might sell off 20 acres and leave us with 30
acres give or take. As a final fall back we are putting the
house on the highest 10 acres. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Work wise, I have done 75% of what we needed done. We
are in year four and I figured it would take five years to get
a house built and get the land near what we wanted. It might
take 6-7 years but I have gotten alot of work done.

Once the work is over its done with. I only have to clean up
from the timber and its done. I only have to build some many
driveways.

I understand peoples feelings about subdividing property. But
guess what its been going on for centuries. The Roosevelts
made much of their money in land as NYC expanded. There
is not much one can do about the expansion. It just is. I
Know within 10-20 years my area will be more heavily
developed. There are some big developments proposed
backed by big money. One just got shot down but it will come
back in some form. There is just to much demand for the
land.

If I could afford it I would by the land to our south and west
just to have more buffer. We are not crowded but people
are moving out. One day there will be a subdivision to my
west and within 300 feet of our house. I'll have a barn and
a garage between the house and the property line but 300
feet is to close.... /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

So if you are going to subdivide how much distance do you
want? Keep that in mind. Also call up some surveyors and
see what they are going to charge to subdivide the property.
Also contact the county and verify what the sellers are
saying. In my area just because a land percs only means so
much. That perc site could cost $3000 to put in a septic
system or $30,000. Big range. Make sure the county will
allow the subdivision and verify what hoops you will have to
jump through to subdivide. Get a feel for the local politics.
I don't think a 40 acre subdivision would be difficult in my
area its the large 100+ home developments that are getting
hit. But read the paper to find out.

Just some rambling thoughts.
Dan McCarty

Golfgar4 · Jul 14, 2003

Thanks Jim! /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

There are a lot of questions that need to be answered, that's for sure. All of the comments that have been offered provide just a little more insight into the complexities of the whole idea. I guess that's a good thing!? /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif I think it will be an interesting and enlightening experience, even if it doesn't pan out! /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Golfgar4 · Jul 14, 2003

Dan,

What you've done sounds "vaguely" familiar! /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif It pretty much reflects what we're thinking about.

( How much land do you want to end up with from the 40 acres?
)

Ideally, all of it. Realistically, nothing less than 10 acres. We would definitely bring in surveyors to check everything out, and then take a look at the most effecient way to divid, if we decide to do that. Certainly we would select the most prime location for ourselves before we sold anything off.

The property is not as wooded as I would like, but we believe there is an area of it that would work nicely.

( Work wise, I have done 75% of what we needed done. We are in year four and I figured it would take five years to get a house built and get the land near what we wanted. )

We expect that it would take us 3 - 5 years to get things where we want them. And as you idid, I would do the major portion of the work.

We know about the need to for perc testing, and the various county restrictions. We're fortunate that this parcel is in one of the least restrictive townships in the county, so that could make things somewhat easier.

Great comments. Thanks! /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

yooperdave · Jul 14, 2003

Hi Gary,

I think they want to sell the whole package at one time.

They could sell maybe a few golf cars and not affect the operation a whole lot. I think the sum of the parts is worth more than the whole. It is not officially on the market as of yet. I can send you a private email if you want more information.

Regards,

Yooper Dave

Golfgar4 · Jul 14, 2003

( I can send you a private email if you want more information.
)

Thanks Dave, but that's not necessary. As much as I would like to consider something like that, it just isn't in the cards. When I see my buddy with the new course, I'll ask him if he wants me to connect you all together to talk.

MarkV · Jul 14, 2003

Garry,

That sure is a pretty place and the price doesn't sound to bad at all to me. I know price all depends on location but being a N. Illinois boy originally (DeKalb) I know the general area. If the place goes for what has been suggested it would be $8500 per acre without the buildings. That is very competitive down here for much less farmable land. Shoot, I don't think you could build the house, barns and silo's for 340k here. What would you consider the going rate for acreage in your area without buildings?

It sure is nice to see those farm building in such good shape. Every time I visit the parents it seem that more and more of the farm buildings are falling in disrepair. Guess that is part of the corporate farming trend rather than the family farm.

MarkV