Iron Worker Punch Press

[ultrarunner]

At the tool and machine shop the air compressors and hydraulic pump had their own cinder block structure... can't really say how loud they were because we really never heard them.

Are biggest project when I was there was for the space shuttle... we had a pair of 200' lines that covered the entire assembly area...

I would love to have one in my home shop...

 

[Arc weld]

Never knew an ironworker needed a special footing. A really large one maybe? The ones I've used didn't appear to have a special footing for them. I think if it's bolted down on a flat surface should suffice. The machine takes the stress, not the floor unless it's a bad floor or the machine moves. If all you mostly want is the hole punch, you don't need a real big ironworker to have decent capacity. I think Edwards has greatly improved their ironworkers. They were never considered comparable to premium ironworkers like Peddinghaus or Mubea but were still a good tool. I think Piranha is a top end machine, Scotchman is good, has a lot of attachments available but is slower, Kingsland is good, Geka is very good, Uni-Hydro is a little crude and there's several other brands in between. I don't think it should be hard to find a 40 to 50 ton used ironworker in the $4000-$6000 range. I worked at a place a few years ago that had a used Mubea 71 ton mechanical that was completely rebuilt that they figured they'd never sell because it was mechanical. They were asking $7000. It was in mint shape and could accommodate at least 2 operators at the same time. Google used ironworkers and see what comes up.

 

[woodlandfarms]

Stupid question. What kind of maintenance does an ironworker need? I assume the normal greasing and such, but what is the replacement / sharpening routine for the impact points. I ask for two reasons, one is for ownership (don't own one and would love one but don't know anyone who has one) and the other is for questioning the owner as I would never be able to buy new.

 

[CNC Dan]

Never knew an ironworker needed a special footing. A really large one maybe? The ones I've used didn't appear to have a special footing for them. I think if it's bolted down on a flat surface should suffice. The machine takes the stress, not the floor unless it's a bad floor or the machine moves.

I think they were refering to the old style mechanical ironworkers. They work off of a big flywheel. Step on the peadal, and in one quick reveloution.... Kerchunk! Quick, powerfull, and no stopping it once it's tripped.

 

[ultrarunner]

I think they were referring to the old style mechanical ironworkers. They work off of a big flywheel. Step on the peadal, and in one quick reveloution.... Kerchunk! Quick, powerfull, and no stopping it once it's tripped.

At the shop we needed substantial floors under the presses... even then the punch could be felt.

The iron worker never produced a shock wave any where near the presses.

 

[Rustyiron]

I have that 55 ton Edwards and love it. I also found it on CL with a good bit of tooling for $1800. Personally it was like winning the lottery. I had been looking for a IW for a good 20 years, allways $4k+ and hard to justify for a personal shop. My drill press is now cronically unemployed and shovel ready!

 

[Gale Hawkins]

55 ton and I though we did good coming up with a 1 ton Arbor Press today for $40 on a double sell.

1 Ton Arbor Press & Other Arbor Presses - Harbor Freight Tools

Years ago when I working a tool and die shop the owner had a couple big punch presses and they sank one corner of the building. They will do a lot of work but noise and dangerous for sure.

Not sure what we got for $40 put having nothing was not very good either. While not an IW for sure I am hoping it helps us with some small U Joint replacement on the ATV and pressing bearings ect.

By the way how much does your 55 ton press weight? Do you have three phase power to your shop? Sounds like a nice shop.

 

[Rustyiron]

The modern "ironworker" is usually a "3 or 4 station" that with the same stroke of the Hyd cyl. you have a hole punching, flat plate cutting, angle cutting & a notcher, all moving at the same time for use at one station at a time. This might be different up in the 100 ton range but they have nothing in common with what I think a bunch of you guys are thinking of, that is a giant 15' tall WW II tank maker. It has more in common with a log splitter than those old stamping presses that worked off the inertia of a huge flywheel. My 55 ton edwards is maybe 1000 lbs. and takes up about 4'x3' of floor space. Completely hydraulic and yes, 3ph. A phase converter came with it. New they can be ordered single phase. They are super time savers. Just like wood working, all your time is in cutting & fitting the parts. Sticking them togher is the easy part.

 

[4shorts]

I'd say yours is more than a 1000 lbs. My 60 ton weighs 2500 lbs. I ordered mine single phase. Also ordered it with the auto electrics. Wouldn't be without it now.

 

[jwmorris]

My punch press and iron worker are both mechanical flywheel style. The iron worker also has a lever on the punch that allows you to bring the punch down manually to locate on a center punch indent then hit the switch to punch.

The angle iron shear allows you to miter at the same time you shear speeding up the process a lot over most iron workers that only shear square then you have to notch for the angle.

Every time I use a friends Scotchman I can't believe how long it takes to complete a cycle. I thought iron workers were to make the process faster, hydraulics is a step backwards to me.

Mine is in the back ground in this photo. Likely the best $500 I have spent on metal fab equipment.

No special foundation and note that it even has wheels at the bottom.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

That was a deal for $1800.

 

[Arc weld]

jwmorris, what brand is your ironworker? I have heard the Scotchman are slow. I used a Peddinghaus 210 Super 20 that was 105 or 110 short tons? It was considered the cream of the crop of mechanical iron workers. It let you lower the punch and then push a button on the end of the handle to punch the hole. Very fast! I punched manways for oilfield storage tanks and sheared all the parts to make hooped safety ladders for the tanks. The flat bar shear wasn't very big but the coper was great for trimming. I also used a 125 ton Kingsland hydraulic. Didn't like the hole punch cause you couldn't slowly lower the punch unless you switched it to jog mode and then had to switch it back. You had to lift your toe up on the foot pedal but you had to have super control to stop the punch to line it up or the punch would lift back up. It would have been better with a control that just stops the punch. What was nice on the Kingsland was that the shear was about 16" wide and could cut over 1/2" thick if I remember.

 

[jwmorris]

It is an Omera.

 

[OutbackL130]

Anybody know about kingsland? Think this is a good one? I can drive down and pick it up.

Hydraulic Iron Worker | eBay

 

[Arc weld]

Kingsland is a good machine. $2100 seems like a very good deal for that one if everything works properly. I'd want to see it working cause the price seems almost too low.

 

[jwmorris]

I will add this, although I prefer a mechanical for punching and shearing I do go to a friends shop and use a hydaulic for bending, if I cannot fit in my press brake and it's too thick for my manual brakes.

The "flip" that a sheet will do wouldn't be anything I want to be around if it happens in an instant.

 

[Stimw]

I have a 35 ton and a 50 ton Scotchman.
First pic is 35 ton, second is the 50 ton and third is the Brake that I made from scrap around the shop for the 50 ton.
I got the 50 ton first, I bought it with 2 other machines, a 6' stomp shear and a 10' Brake.
I sold the shear and brake and kept the 50 ton AND ended up with $600. additional cash!!
I bought the 35 ton on CL for $600. with plans to flip it but when it looked at me with those sad eyes I couldn't let it go!
Besides the 50 ton wanted a little brother! (That's my story and I'm stickin' to it!!)
I am running both machines on one homemade ($45.) static phase converter along with a 15" X 54" Cincinnati Hydrashift Lathe. I never run them at the same time anyway.

I know a guy with a 55 ton Edwards that he bought new. The pump noise goes right through me!! And when he punches thicker metal it goes "BAM" when the punch goes through!! My Scotchman just seems to ease through when punching thick material.
If anyone thinks that the Scotchman are too slow can just go back to their drill press and bandsaw!!

I bought a Buffalo 1/2 Ironworker at an auction. I kept it long enough to power it up and get the DO-DO scared out of me! It had a lot of nice features but was an accident waiting to happen! Most are not OSHA Compliant either.

 

[OutbackL130]

I will be using the ironworker in a shop on my residential 3 acre property. Noise is a factor in my purchase decision. Are other iron workers really that much quieter than an edwards?

I'm confused when people say about the pump noise on the edwards. The only reason I'm hesitant about buying an edwards is from what I've read others say about them. From my experience when I went to see the craigslist 55 ton edwards in action I thought it was an awesome machine. As far as the noise it seemed no louder than what I would expect from an industrial hydraulic machine. This edwards is 10 years old too so I would assume it has the noisy pump people complain about. I stopped using my main tct dry cut sawing station because of the extreme noise level it produced, therefore, I want to know more about the edwards complaints before spending $5k.

Stimw, how loud would you say the edwards is compared to a tractor or lawn mower?

 

[OutbackL130]

I have another question for anyone, how possible would it be to tap into an iron workers hydraulic system to power other hydraulic machines such as my tubing bender?

 

[Arc weld]

I think compared to most ironworkers a Scotchman is a little slower. Still beats a drill press unless it's a radial arm drill press. They are awesome for larger pieces with multiple holes. For punching holes a mechanical ironworker is the fastest of them all. I think Edwards has improved their ironworkers quite a bit but $5000 for an older one seems a little high. As far as going bam when punching, it might be because the die is worn out or needs a little oil on it. It's good to lube the punch every 25 holes or so with a couple drops of oil. Different grades of steel could make more noise too. I've seen where the punch and die don't line up perfectly as well. There needs to be the right clearance for the thickness you are punching.