Inverter welders??

[Steve C]

The last time I was in the Harbor freight store I noticed that they had a couple of very small "inverter welders" for sale. They were very small, only about the size of a shoe box. The description states that it does all kinds of good things.

I have never seen these before. Does anyone know if these are stand alone units or are the designed to be used as an add on to an existing welder?

 

[SPIKER]

I think they are small stand alone 110volt welders good for lighter stuff and for use in remote areas. They use digital circuitry instead of big heavy transformers to do the job. I have not used one but have seen them a lot, this is the same tech that is making small plasma units that seem to be pretty good which I have used them...
I think they require a little different style of welding than the old style stick welders.
mark

 

[alltoys]

They are awesome little welders they work excellent. I have also used their full sized units that put out 500 Amps and only weigh 75lbs. The arc characteristic is better than most generated machines. Plus it doesn't use as much current as the other machines all in all an excellent system.

 

[Inkomodius]

Inverters are the best not only do they offer great size, they give great DC characteristics, better arc starting and a smooth arc. Most of them you can set up for TIG as well.

As far as welding "style" they are scratch or lift start, and they are stand alone units. All the high end TIG and MIG units are inverter technology, they draw less amperage.

I have a 100 amp Air Liquide Inverter and I throw it on a Rhino with a generator and run up and down my neighbours fence line fixing his elk fence.

I think harbor freight is a lot like Canada's Princess Auto and that would be my only concern is the quality, so use your discretion.

 

[tommu56]

I have a miller max star 150 inverter welder it is great! service factor must be monitored.

I'm not sure about the HF stuff.

I had one tig job that paid for it the only regret that I didn't get the remote for it but it can still be added if needed.

tom

 

[Cami]

I like inverters and have put in many hours using one, but don't actually own one myself.

For steady output it's the only thing that comes close to an old motor-generator welder, especially when you have a "dirty" electrical supply.

A bonus with the inverters compared to the motor-generator sets is they don't have the noise or weight. I've done a fair bit of stainless and aluminum TIG as well as stick with a Miller Dynasty; a very nice machine.

I've used two models of the small Miller inverters. One did stick and DC TIG while the other did just stick. I haven't used an inverter welder that I didn't like and wouldn't hesitate to buy one if the need arose.

Like it was suggested above, I'm inclined to stick with big names. Hunt for specials and don't be afraid to haggle!

Here's neat idea:

On one job we were running a Trailblazer 302 doing stick with 3/32" 7018. To speed things up, we grabbed the small Miller inverter we had and ran it off the auxiliary power; instant dual operator rig. It worked nicely with the small rods required for that job, but I'm not sure about running larger electrodes with that setup.

 

[Transit]

Caveat emptor. Yes inverter power supplies are very efferent. On a welding site, the HF welders have very poor reputations, particularly the Mig's., some could not weld there way out of a paper bag. If you do purchase one, check out HF's return policy and keep the sales receipt.

 

[Reg]

The last time I was in the Harbor freight store I noticed that they had a couple of very small "inverter welders" for sale. They were very small, only about the size of a shoe box. The description states that it does all kinds of good things.

I have never seen these before. Does anyone know if these are stand alone units or are the designed to be used as an add on to an existing welder?

Basically they get DC in two stages;
1) a "chopper" power supply from 50 or 60 cycles and simple rectifier to produce a "rough" DC
2) An "inverter" (OK, an oscillator) to produce a higher frequency AC that is also rectified to produce the welding DC.

More complex than the buzz boxes, but the savings are in copper and iron, which translates to less weight, size and cost.
It is POSSIBLE to produce a smoother DC from the higher frequency second stage AC, since the ripple can be taken out for less $s.

300 amp inverter welders are now quite common and in general use, the BIG NAMES also offer them.
As with tractors, it isn't clear who actually makes what or who imports and re-badges what.

 

[Steve C]

Caveat emptor. Yes inverter power supplies are very efferent. On a welding site, the HF welders have very poor reputations, particularly the Mig's., some could not weld there way out of a paper bag. If you do purchase one, check out HF's return policy and keep the sales receipt.

Thanks for the information. I have always aproached the purchase of Harbor Freight tools with the expectation that "you get what you pay for". For the most part they haven't failed to live up to/or down to that expectation.

I have been pleasantly suprised with the $2 digital VOM's, I have a half dozen of them around here. The cables are a little cheasy but I expect that in a $2 meter. They sure aren't equal to a $100 Fluke, but they seem servicible for what I need one for.

I had not seen the term "inverter welder" before. I haven't shopped for a welder in about 30 years. I seem to recall that way back when they offered add on inverter boxes for doing tig work.

Now that I know what they are I will have to keep on the look out for a small name brand unit. My 295 amp buzz box and my 250 amp ac/dc are not very portable. I was impressed by the shoe box size and light weight of the little inverters.

 

[Transit]

Steve, check out WeldingWeb.com, scroll down to, Manufacture Product Forums---Harbor Freight.

Check out the post by smyrna5, he has a video of what your 80 amp welder. See and learn.

 

[Bill_C]

I don't know about the HF inverter welders, but the HF cheapo wirefeed welders are AC !! (For those who may not know, ^real^ wirefeed welders run DC output)

While generally I'm supportive of HF stuff (I've got their bandsaw, sandblaster, 20 ton press, etc)...I'd pay the extra money to buy a Miller, or Lincoln, or Hobart, rather than a Harbor Freight welder.

 

[Transit]

I don't know about the HF inverter welders, but the HF cheapo wirefeed welders are AC !! (For those who may not know, ^real^ wirefeed welders run DC output)

While generally I'm supportive of HF stuff (I've got their bandsaw, sandblaster, 20 ton press, etc)...I'd pay the extra money to buy a Miller, or Lincoln, or Hobart, rather than a Harbor Freight welder.

Bill C, that's not entirely true. Some of the wire feed welders are DC and little else, they don't have caps to store energery nor inductors to smooth the arc and let the bead flow or very deep penetration. But you are not off the mark.

 

[yomax4]

Anther bit of Info on Inverters, ( I sell Them ) They are a little more fussy about dirt. Dust and Iron Powder can raise cain on the PC boards that are stacked together to make them. Dirt can jump an arc and blow a board making your inverter not worth repair. They also tend to not like power drops or surges. Take all that into consideration and prevent it and you will love the Inverter performance. Good points are many can be run 110v - 230v single or 3 phase. Light portable and Smooth. Europe is 90% Inverters.

Good Luck.

 

[Steve C]

Anther bit of Info on Inverters, ( I sell Them ) They are a little more fussy about dirt. Dust and Iron Powder can raise cain on the PC boards that are stacked together to make them. Dirt can jump an arc and blow a board making your inverter not worth repair. They also tend to not like power drops or surges. Take all that into consideration and prevent it and you will love the Inverter performance. Good points are many can be run 110v - 230v single or 3 phase. Light portable and Smooth. Europe is 90% Inverters.

Good Luck.

Great information. It sounds like a good blowing out with an air hose before and after every use will go a long way in preventing problems

 

[Bill_C]

Bill C, that's not entirely true. Some of the wire feed welders are DC and little else, they don't have caps to store energery nor inductors to smooth the arc and let the bead flow or very deep penetration. But you are not off the mark.

What I mean is that actually the cheapest HF wirefeeds aren't even rectified to DC; they've merely got a stepdown transformer. I downloaded the owner's manual and they show the output as AC; the schematic was in the manual and plainly showed there wasn't any rectification, just the stepdown transformer!! No wonder people complained how poorly they welded.

edited: This one: http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=98871 for example. Download the manual and see the schematic, no rectification on the output!!!

 

[Steve C]

What I mean is that actually the cheapest HF wirefeeds aren't even rectified to DC; they've merely got a stepdown transformer. I downloaded the owner's manual and they show the output as AC; the schematic was in the manual and plainly showed there wasn't any rectification, just the stepdown transformer!! No wonder people complained how poorly they welded.

edited: This one: - Harbor Freight Tools - Quality Tools at the Lowest Prices for example. Download the manual and see the schematic, no rectification on the output!!!

Thanks Bill, that is the kind of information we need to be informed consumers.

If we let them sit on the shelves instead of taking them home, maybe somebody will decide they need to sell a better product.

Meanwhile I think our domestic manufacturers will probably be more than happy to supply that product, even if they have it sourced elswhere due to cost/ competition, it is their name on the lable and I would expect a better result, or they won't be staying in business.

 

[Cocre]

@Steve C: I bought one of the small HF DC Inverter welders about six months ago. Back then they had two models, a 110v unit for ~$159 and a 220v unit for ~$169. I bought the 220v unit and can tell you that it is one amazing welder. The model I bought is no longer sold, but a higher priced one with more features is.

Several years back I welded as part of my job as an industrial maintenance mechanic. I was good at DC stick, DC TIG, and AC TIG on aluminum. I wanted a DC stick machine for some light welding around the place, but the Hobart and Lincoln models were more than I wanted to spend. I thought I would take a chance with this cheap DC welder from HF and I can tell you I am very pleased. The thing will burn a 1/8" 7018 rod with no problem, and the duty cycle is way above the $400 plus name brand units. I have never had to stop welding to let the unit cool down. Now I don't weld professionally, but for around the farm it is great. It runs off a 30 amp 220v circuit also. The other units were 50 amp.

 

[Steve C]

@Steve C: I bought one of the small HF DC Inverter welders about six months ago. Back then they had two models, a 110v unit for ~$159 and a 220v unit for ~$169. I bought the 220v unit and can tell you that it is one amazing welder. The model I bought is no longer sold, but a higher priced one with more features is.

Several years back I welded as part of my job as an industrial maintenance mechanic. I was good at DC stick, DC TIG, and AC TIG on aluminum. I wanted a DC stick machine for some light welding around the place, but the Hobart and Lincoln models were more than I wanted to spend. I thought I would take a chance with this cheap DC welder from HF and I can tell you I am very pleased. The thing will burn a 1/8" 7018 rod with no problem, and the duty cycle is way above the $400 plus name brand units. I have never had to stop welding to let the unit cool down. Now I don't weld professionally, but for around the farm it is great. It runs off a 30 amp 220v circuit also. The other units were 50 amp.

Thank you. That is the kind of information I need. I am sure many others will be interested in your experience with the HF inverter welder also. I have an unopened 50# tin of 7018. 1/8" is the rod I like to use. I think there is a inverter welder in my future. I was very impressed at the small size of the machine. My 250 amp AC/DC machine is a bear to haul around.

 

[Reg]

What I mean is that actually the cheapest HF wirefeeds aren't even rectified to DC; they've merely got a stepdown transformer. I downloaded the owner's manual and they show the output as AC; the schematic was in the manual and plainly showed there wasn't any rectification, just the stepdown transformer!! No wonder people complained how poorly they welded.

edited: This one: - Harbor Freight Tools - Quality Tools at the Lowest Prices for example. Download the manual and see the schematic, no rectification on the output!!!

From the schematic I read it would appear that the CS100 unit probably chops the stepped down AC.
"Rectification" per se isn't necessary.

 

[fcamillieri]

I bought a Ramsond 200A Inverter. It stick welds 200A, TIG 200A and Plasma 50A. All DC and plugs into 110 or 220 w/o changing anything. It will plasma 1/2 thick but I've only done 3/8" so far. Comes with everything you need except a bottle of argon. I'm very happy with it. I paid about $800 for it.