International 444, 1968. Progress Thread, Getting Going

[FlyFishn]

I use an ATV winch with various rigging - shackles, snatch blocks, straps, etc. It has done a ton of work over the years. I got a superwinch with synthetic line, 4500lb rated winch. No frayed steel cable to shred hands with.

We do need an engine hoist at some point. I have a 6.7L powerstroke diesel that is waiting for an engine rebuild in the barn... another long-term project. Right now the tractor, among other things, is taking priority.

 

[FlyFishn]

So a quick update -

I am combining a couple ideas on the transmission top positioning. I wrenched my back messing with it Sunday trying to armstrong it in to place. With all the on/off and then breaking the sealant at the end it was a lot of work - and I'm paying for it.

With the thought of close cribbing then knocking the slider gears in to place combined with the issue of getting the assembly in to place in the first place - I decided to rig the hoist to the rafters to get a line down over the transmission to hold the assembly and position it.

Since clearance is an issue - I used solid steel wire, sort of like coat hanger wire on a spool, or thick bailing wire. It is about 1/16" diameter. I made 2 slings to suspend the front and back.

The bad part is now the steering wheel has to come off. That is the target for today. Then hopefully I can work on the test fitting of the forks. Thursday the goal is to get a new gasket made and the transmission sealed up.

 

[DJ54]

Sounds like you need something like pictured below on a smaller scale. We used to set a lot of concrete pipes and used a lifter designed like this built by our mechanic/welder. I made one on a smaller scale to install 145 lb. wheel weights on my Farmall 130 & 140 yet clear the wheel & tire, but I have the advantage of an overhead beam with several chain hoists on trolleys. Whereas you'd have to roll the tractor a bit to position things.

That steering wheel should have a fine spline. I pulled the one off the 240U I have several years ago to replace it from when Dad accidently dropped a tree on it many years ago and bent it pretty bad. It finally broke 20 some years later. I soaked it pretty well with my 50/50 mix of Acetone and ATF for a few hours. Sat in the seat and gave it a big yank. Dang near hit myself in the nose with it when it came off a whole lot easier than expected. Won't hurt a thing to put a little never-seize on the splines when you put it back on, never know when it may have to come off again.

 

[FlyFishn]

I have some ideas on putting in a 4 post mobile gantry crane in the shop at some point. We use them at work every day and they make the work we do possible, and what we can do without they make a lot easier (and save our backs).

That said, this is how I have the trans cover rigged at the moment. The steel wire is thin enough I can get close clearance in the housings upon "landing". The doubled over line on the snatch block isn't for the load, its to reduce the line speed. I'd be half tempted to put another block up top and triple the ratio to make it slower. But at 1/2 it works OK. It is just a very tedious movement and every "click" of the winch makes a difference up or down. It is among the most fine positioning requirements I've ever tried to do like this.

I think I have the gears/shifter in a position where I can repeat the fork/slider gear alignment. The trick I have come up with is to have the range shifter in the middle between the ranges. Then when I get the other slider gears (the rear 2 namely) knocked in position - lower the cover down the rest of the way then use the range shifter to nudge the cover fore/aft to align the bolt holes.

I will clean the rest of the casting faces and make the new gasket tonight and give it a shot again. If everything fits well I'll move on to the sealing.

After this picture was taken I shortened up the rear steel wire to level out the fitment more than what you see.

 

[DJ54]

Some long bolts of appropriate size make great guides to get it in the proper position. I have more than several sizes of Gr. 2 bolts for this purpose. They don't have to be hard just using them for guide pins and won't break the bank.

 

[FlyFishn]

I had to modify my rigging technique on the cover. The wire slings were in the way of the sealant and gasket - I didn't want to mess any of that up during the process. So I used a pair of vice grips to rig off of the shifter. Not pretty, but it worked great.

I sealed the casting + gasket side first, tightened the cover on to press the gasket and sealant, then removed the cover and added the sealant to the top of the gasket. Of course, when I was at that stage I misaligned the gears. It took 3 tries of getting the cover off, resetting the gears, etc but I got it.

The transmission is all set to go now. Time to move on to the lift housing and the rest of the hydraulics.

 

[DJ54]

Atta' boy...

 

[FlyFishn]

I got the lift housing back in place. So that wraps up all the "hard" work on this end of the work - dealing with the transmission issues (resolved now). The next end of the work, once everything is back together with the hydraulics etc, is the engine. I'm hoping to get to that next week in to next weekend. We'll see how things go.

 

[FlyFishn]

This week's progress so far - the remote valve and lines are back together.

I am working on the suction filter and line now. The new filter is a single unit with the suction tube. The way the filter housing seals is with an O-ring. There is no screw pressure, just an O-ring slipped in to the port in the lift housing. I can't get the new filter housing to go in place.

I got my calipers out and the O-ring groove in the old housing is 1.689" and the new one is 1.735". That is a .046" increase.

So the question is what to do about it. If I had access to a lathe I would be tempted to chuck up the filter/housing (cant separate without destroying) and turn down the seal groove.

Since that isn't an option - what ideas do any of you have?

I don't think you can simply go to a parts place like NAPA or O'Rileys for another O-ring that is a hair smaller because unless they have a vehicle make, model, year and/or part number the people there are useless. You cant search parts like this by dimensions.

 

[dieselscout80]

Lube it up then take a chunk of say 1.5” pvc and use it and a hammer to tap it into place.

 

[FlyFishn]

The PVC and tapping method may possibly work. However, I didn't get the sense that the O-ring would sit very far down in the port in the lift housing - maybe 1/16-3/32" before the filter housing flange would seat against the lift housing.

For as much pressure as I was getting on it (and I did have the O-ring lubed) - there was just too much interference. Im thinking even if I could get the filter housing flange to reach the lift housing - tapping or pressing - the interference would push it right back out.

There is a blocking plate to hold it in. That was another thing I tried - but I couldn't get the bolt started.

That .046" over size off the groove diameter amounts to .023" off the radius. I could slip the edge of a file in there and knock some of that down. Of course, that wouldn't hold the groove "round", but with that seal pressing in anyway it would smush in to position.

 

[FlyFishn]

So my update from the weekend -

I think it was Thursday now - I got the suction filter assembly in. I used a dremel tool with a grinding disk to trim down the groove diameter. I think I went a bit far in some places by about .010" on the diameter (.005" off the radius). I am not sure if this is going to seal 100%, but at this point I can't really add metal. I may put some oil in it and see what happens. There may be other ways to build it up if need-be (some of the Permatex gasket sealant layered there maybe? Just another idea).

We got an old Deere lawn tractor Friday so that ate up my Friday and majority of my Saturday, but I did get the 3 point back together.

Sunday I ended up doing some electrical work in the shop that took most of my working time. Then got on to the hydraulics. What a bugger. I need hands 1/2 the size and 3x as strong. The little high pressure lines under the gas tank on the right side were a real PITA, mostly the line that connected to the inside of the main supply back to the lift housing as the coupler was away from me.

Earlier last week I got the filter housing for the main hydraulics (lift housing, loader, and remote) under the seat assembled. I want to say that was the same day (thursday) as the suction filter. Anywho, apparently when I tried to set the housing and pipes in place I cross threaded one of the pipes - between the 90deg fitting on the filter housing and the remote valve block. See the diagram.

I tried to clean the threads up with a triangle file enough to get the threads to track correctly, but no luck. The threads just want to go right back to the cross track. I don't have a die to chase them with, and since the coupling threads on the pipe are also compromised and it is a high pressure line - I don't know that I would trust the repaired threads anyway.

So the best route I think is to replace the parts.

It looks like I can get the 90deg fitting (close to $50 from the dealer, will look around for other options), but I can not seem to locate the pipe.

The 90deg fitting is PN 391 960 r91 and subs up to 100333.

The pipe is PN 400 274 r1.

Any ideas on this one? If it isn't available, how hard would it be to have one made?

 

[dieselscout80]

Try take the damaged one to a hydraulic store/shop and see if they can match it.

The price will still suck though.

 

[FlyFishn]

I called the dealer and discussed the scenario. The guy I talked to did some digging and, although the PN for the pipe is retired/obsolete, he found one somewhere else in the country. Last we left it was he was going to investigate it to see if it actually exists and if where it is would be willing to let it go. So we'll see where that goes.

The 90deg elbow appears like it is available. It would have to be transferred in, but it, or it's equivalent/replacement, is readily available.

The giant question even still - with these older/subbed parts - is will they actually match up and fit?

Depending on what comes of the pipe especially - I'm thinking if I take them the old parts to have to compare as we work through this we can better identify the match. So if the ports on the elbow aren't the same size/thread or the pipe isn't the right length/different bends then we can catch it prior to shipping the part across the country....

The escapade continues.

Another quick update - the seat is back on. So that wraps up the operator station going back together. The last bit on the hydraulics/lift housing tear down is the pipe I'm trying to replace.

 

[DJ54]

I wouldn't give up hope if it is not the correct one. There are 20 listed at TractorHouse in salvage: Pardon Our Interruption

But even then you'd have to make sure it is the correct one. If I remember right, there were two versions I saw on the online parts book.

There are a couple options for salvage dealers closer that may have what you're looking for. Gene's Recycling up at Attica: genes » Page 1 of 7 And TMS Stoller up at Sterling, OH. TMS Stoller Tractor: Used and New Tractor and Combine Parts You never know what they will be getting in, or what they already have dismantled.Just have your part number handy if you call.

If you strike out there, you can always post a "want to buy" ad at TractorHouse. Look at the top right of page in the menu. TractorHouse.com | New & Used Farm Equipment For Sale You'll need to register and leave contact info, so they know it's not a spammer. P/N and description is needed. I've found more than several hard to find parts there, and they usually contact you within 36-48 hours, one in as little as 45 minutes after posting. I also learned to wait a couple days as prices can vary along with shipping depending on how far away it is. They did have a satisfaction guarantee clause, I assume they still do. In today's world they can send a photo via text to show you the condition.

 

[dieselscout80]

Another thought is to check with a Mahindra dealer as IH sold the design of this series to them and they build it.

They started with the Mahindra 350/450.

 

[FlyFishn]

Quick update -

The 90deg fitting came in Saturday. We had a packed weekend with other things, however I got the fitting on late Sunday. I just used the existing pipe for now. I didn't put a ton of torque on the coupler at the 90deg fitting, but it threaded on there just fine. I think I'll get things buttoned up with it and give it a try - with some kind of shield in place in case that joint spreads apart under pressure.

I did start getting oil back in it. There are several leaks. One is around the new suction filter housing (the groove I had to reduce - I went too far with it as I was concerned with) and another primary one is one of the small lines around the steering plumbing under the gas tank (the one on the block more in the center of the tractor).

If I am correct - the small steering line is the cause for all the oil around the bottom of the transmission as it is flowing down both the left and right sides of the top of the transmission housing (all wet on top by the block). So I am crossing my fingers with the one leak I can resolve that and solve everything below (IE - the new gasket sealing underneath is good).

Same goes for the lift housing - if I get the seal on the new suction filter housing to stop leaking then the hope is the sealed gasket there is in good shape.

I moved on to the oil pan last night. The old gasket is a real bugger to get off of the bottom of the block. I need to track down a creeper to work on it. I can't position myself underneath there to adequately work on it - I'm straining too many muscles. But the fight must continue. Things are growing now and we need a machine.

Side note - we got 11 chickens this weekend - hatched April 1. We'll be needing to set up a coup before too long. Even though the tractor work is critical, we're still growing as best we can.

 

[DJ54]

A bit of advice on your coup if you're not aware. Be sure to make it Fox, Raccoon, Mink, Hawk, and possibly Coyote proof. I don't have any, but 2 different neighbors have tried to but mainly Red Fox have wiped out their flocks in short time about the time they get to producing well.

I've found many remnants around my machinery shed. Free ranging is a big no-no here.

 

[FlyFishn]

As to the chickens - yep. We have the critter problem out here. I am working towards thinning that down, as with everything - in time.

I got a cheap creeper to work under the engine block. That seems to be just what I need.

Now the next problem - how to get in and remove the old gasket remnants off the bottom of the engine block. See the picture. Access is limited. Unless I dismantle the whole front end of the tractor, basically, I can't isolate the block.

So how would all of you approach this? I'm trying to put things together at this point, not tear it all back down.

The biggest 3 things that are in the way are the oil sump pick up, steering cylinders, and the swing arm bar for the front axle.

 

[DJ54]

Harbor Freight has gasket scraper sets like these for $6. I found a Snap-On scraper along the road 40 years ago, still have it in the toolbox and use it occasionally. Long enough you can reach in and around things. I also just use a putty knife about 2" wide. I'll run it across the grinder just on one side to make a sharp edge.

These are just to get the rough off. For something I completely tear down I clean up with the 90º air die grinder with 2" Roloc head, and medium gasket removal disc's. Wouldn't advise using that on this, unless you stuff some shop towels up around the inside of the crankcase to prevent gasket debris from getting in there.