Intermittent start - L3400

[bigballer]

yesterday while running around my place i must have stopped/started my tractor 20 times. there were a few times i turned the key over but the starter didn't kick in. could this be a simple ground issue or something else? the tractor has 225 hrs and never had any sort of issue like this..

thanks for feedback/recommendation

 

[leonz]

yesterday while running around my place i must have stopped/started my tractor 20 times. there were a few times i turned the key over but the starter didn't kick in. could this be a simple ground issue or something else? the tractor has 225 hrs and never had any sort of issue like this..

thanks for feedback/recommendation

Since we dont know what you were doing and:

Assuming you mean that it died on you while underway- sometimes its not simple.


1. bad battery with one or more broken plates in the battey-
2. broken battery post either +-
3. bad terminal end on +-
4. deteriorated battery cable from corosion +-
5. hairline crack in main fuse
6. " " " fusible link
7. defective seat safety switch
8. loose hot wire on starter soleniod-likely

9. do you have an electric clutch- if you have a bad battery the minute you activate the clutch it will kill a gas tractor and stop it dead for example.


If the solenoid is not even making contact it may be the starter switch is burning out of contact range as it is a momentary contact switch.

Start with the battery, check the water level if possible, remove it charge it overnight and have it load tested-it may be bad with bad plates/broken plates which if banged around enough with stop a tractor.

You may simply have a broken plate in the old battery and the dead battery does not feed 12 volts to the fuel pump and it dies.

the heat in the battery created by the electrical system would be enough to create a gap in cracked plate and eliminate any voltage from being delivered to the electrical system.


Thats the nice thing about air starters as require smaller electrical systems.

 

[KennyV]

I'm with leonz really do not understand the 20 starts...
If it is stalling or dieing you will most likely find the problem common to why it is not starting immediately..
IF you are starting and stopping it 20 times in a day... well do you normally do that? If so why?
Every thing has a finite number of cycles in them...everything will ware out. I know my tractor gets less 20 than starts per month and that is when I use it a lot... I mow and maintain about 30 acres of finish mowed grass, I start it and it is running until I stop usually at dark. Other than trying to use up the starter and all the associated components, why would you shut a diesel engine off and then restart just to do it again and again? The energy expended to start a diesel engine are not trivial and will add up quick...

sounds like you could have more starts in your 225 hours than some would have in several lifetimes...

 

[DiezNutz]

7b. Some other safety switch besides the seat.
10. Ignition switch - you may have worn it out. (I'm only half joking).

 

[Wheatland KB]

If it is an HST model it could be as simple as the rocker pedal not being in the exact neutral center position.

 

[teg]

I read it as... you started and cut off the engine a bunch of times but *sometimes* it would not re-start on the first try... what would it not do? Would it click but not start (battery), or complete silence (safety switch) then start normal???

 

[bigballer]

I read it as... you started and cut off the engine a bunch of times but *sometimes* it would not re-start on the first try... what would it not do? Would it click but not start (battery), or complete silence (safety switch) then start normal???

wow thank you all for the responses. let me clarify, i was on/off the tractor all day moving wood, pushing horse manure, running to neighbors, etc etc i figure why waste fuel if i am not going to using the tractor for more than 15 minutes, seemed logical to me.. the problem was when it was turned off and i got on to start it, when i turned the key i would hear a click but no engagement of the starter. once started it ran fine, again only problem was when i tried to start when the engine was already off. it is an HST and did not think about the rocker fwd/reverse pedal, that might have been. going to test now..

 

[leonz]

BATTERY!

 

[DiezNutz]

BATTERY!

Maybe, but I'm not as convinced. There are other explanations that are simpler (safety switches) than an intermittent battery that randomly chooses between being dead or half-dead, and starting the tractor normally. Not saying it couldn't happen, but wouldn't be common. Any time I've seen a battery go bad, it pretty much stayed bad.
:2cents:

 

[bigballer]

honestly guys i think wheatland might be onto the root cause.. i don't recall having my foot on the rocker when it was failing to start but i found tonight even just a little pressure on the pedal will keep it from turning over.. will monitor over the next week to see if it happens again.

 

[teg]

If you hear clicking... then the starter is *trying* to work but not getting enough juice. If it was a safety switch, like the pedal, you would have *no* juice to make the clicking sound. I'm leaning towards a bad ground or a loose ground. Got corrosion? (on battery)

 

[bigballer]

If you hear clicking... then the starter is *trying* to work but not getting enough juice. If it was a safety switch, like the pedal, you would have *no* juice to make the clicking sound. I'm leaning towards a bad ground or a loose ground. Got corrosion? (on battery)

yes i did notice the + lead does have some corrosion around the battery post. it clicks once when i turn the key from the off position clockwise to the next stop (accessory?) but not when turing to engage starter, if that makes any sense..

 

[LD1]

If you hear clicking... then the starter is *trying* to work but not getting enough juice. If it was a safety switch, like the pedal, you would have *no* juice to make the clicking sound. I'm leaning towards a bad ground or a loose ground. Got corrosion? (on battery)

But if the battery were dead, or not have a good connection, there would also be no juice to make the clicking sound.


But for what it's worth, I think we need a little more clarity on the "clicking" that you heard. Did it click when you turned the key on, or was it when turning it it start???

I have a 3400 as well but it is a gear drive. If I put the shuttle shifter in a gear, and turn the key on, you hear an audible click. Energizing relays and stuff. About the same sound that it makes when you turn the key backwards for the glow plugs. But when trying to start, Nothing at all, not even a click. So if the "click" you are hearing is when you first turn the key to "run", but get nothing at all in start, IMO it is definatally a saftey of sometype. Neutral switch, PTO, Seat, etc.

 

[teg]

...it clicks once...

...I think we need a little more clarity on the "clicking" that you heard....and turn the key on, you hear an audible click...

I was barking up the wrong tree :ashamed: sorry about that. I've never noticed a click...

So yes, safety switch... just which one

 

[DiezNutz]

I was barking up the wrong tree :ashamed: sorry about that. I've never noticed a click...

So yes, safety switch... just which one

After I read your previous post, I thought that's what you were thinking.

In your defense, there just wasn't enough information in:

...and i got on to start it, when i turned the key i would hear a click but no engagement of the starter

To know if he meant the "clk-clk-clk-clk-clk" of a starter solenoid, or the Dr. Frankenstein "crack" from the contactor when you turn the key on, like I was thinking. Could be interpreted both ways.

So it's bigballer's fault.

 

[KubieTwo]

The 20 starts a day made me suspect the description of "...starter won't kick in." It made it difficult to decide which direction to go but I put those two together and ruled out battery, or ground, or stalling, or starter doing anything. With no more information, and what had already been asked, I decided not to dance on that song.

I agree with KennyV that that tractor has already had or is well on the way to a lifetime of starts to its credit. Few people think about how a design might differ if the engineer expects 10,000 cycles to be a lifetime versus the same component where 100,000 cycles is an expected lifetime. If the operator is not in sync with the design assumptions, surprise and disappoint are often the result.

My wife discovered these concepts on a power seat when she ran it forward and back every time she got in and out of her car. If she ran 10 errands a day, she ran the seat full back to exit then full forward to drive. Same thing leaving and arriving home. The rails, gears and motors were not cheap, nor did they last very long. Nor did she understand either the repair cost or the design life cycle conversation.

 

[RadarTech]

ok...
here is where it gets tough..
next time it happens...Stand up... shake your left foot... no just kidding..

with your left foot.. watch that clutch safety switch. push the clutch in and out several times...
try to start..

check that HST pedal... then try again..
then stand up or move your weight on and off the seat and try again...

if that does not do it..
Exercise the PTO lever...


I can't count the number of times I was tired and the clutch pedal was depressed but now all the way......


Let us know what happens..


J

 

[DiezNutz]

My wife discovered these concepts on a power seat when she ran it forward and back every time she got in and out of her car. If she ran 10 errands a day, she ran the seat full back to exit then full forward to drive. Same thing leaving and arriving home. The rails, gears and motors were not cheap, nor did they last very long. Nor did she understand either the repair cost or the design life cycle conversation.

Women don't understand that sort of logic. That's why my wife isn't allowed to operate any controls.

I kid! I kid! Lucky for me she doesn't pay any attention to my "stupid internet crap". :laughing:

 

[leonz]

If you hear clicking... then the starter is *trying* to work but not getting enough juice. If it was a safety switch, like the pedal, you would have *no* juice to make the clicking sound. I'm leaning towards a bad ground or a loose ground. Got corrosion? (on battery)

And you can have a click with barely enough amperage/dead battery and not be able to start it been there done that on many tractors and trucks.

Your amp guage can work just fine and continue to make low voltage DC power if you a cracked plate or bad cell too.


leonz

 

[bigballer]

it's one single click, when changing the key from the off position to the right (next stop - lights on, etc). when i turned it futher to engage the starter there is no sound. i could have been at fault for not pressing the clutch in all the way but i really think i had my foot on the hst rocker pedal which was tripping the safety switch. i didn't even know the pedal had one! one of the many reasons i find this site valuable! i'm going to run through some of the tests that radar pointed out.

now on to the start/stop. do you guys really leave your tractor running for extended periods of time if you are not driving it?? (say more than 10 minutes). if i were mowing a 10acre field i would not turn off for a bio break but that day i was cutting trees, moving them with the tractor, limbing, feeding fire, bucking into rounds, loading into bucket moving to camp site, etc.. i may have been exaggerating the number of times but was at least 10 times. i am catching alot of flack for this and no way believe i am the only one that does this!