Interesting: Chinese Mini-Loader

[KentT]

With an MSRP of $19,800 including bucket and grapple, this thing looks like it could go head-to-head with the "big, red PTs" from a price perspective...

Mini Loader NEW 27 Hp 4 WHEEL DRIVE Heater NEW - (item 330148717355 end time Jul-29-07 20:39:12 PDT)

Not suggesting that it equates to a PT in either quality or performance today, it just looks like there may be alternatives coming down the pike other than the $50K-plus Yanmars and Kubotas in the mini-loaders....

Thought it was interesting... since I can remember the days when "Made in Japan" meant junk, instead of the benchmark that others compete against. IMO, the Korean products are much improved in quality since their introduction and their shortcomings are being "made up for" by their warranties (Hyundai for example), and it's likely only a matter of time until the quality of the Chinese products improves significantly also...

 

[ponytug]

Great find. I nad never heard of a Verinna 120.
There is another ad for it. It's not clear if it is the same dealer or not.
Verinna 120
Asking $15,000

2200 lifting capacity, almost 8' in the air... 18gpm at ? psi.

Any thoughts on the for/aft weight balance? The height of the COG? It would appear to be a grey market import, without a real ROPS.

Like lots of Chinese equipment, it looks best suited to level ground.

All the best,

Peter

With an MSRP of $19,800 including bucket and grapple, this thing looks like it could go head-to-head with the "big, red PTs" from a price perspective...

Mini Loader NEW 27 Hp 4 WHEEL DRIVE Heater NEW - (item 330148717355 end time Jul-29-07 20:39:12 PDT)

Not suggesting that it equates to a PT in either quality or performance today, it just looks like there may be alternatives coming down the pike other than the $50K-plus Yanmars and Kubotas in the mini-loaders....

Thought it was interesting... since I can remember the days when "Made in Japan" meant junk, instead of the benchmark that others compete against. IMO, the Korean products are much improved in quality since their introduction and their shortcomings are being "made up for" by their warranties (Hyundai for example), and it's likely only a matter of time until the quality of the Chinese products improves significantly also...

 

[KentT]

Great find. I have never heard of a Verinna 120.
There is another ad for it. It's not clear if it the same dealer or not.
Verinna 120
Asking $15,000

2200 lifting capacity, almost 8' in the air... 18gpm at ? psi.

Any thoughts on the for/aft weight balance? The height of the COG? It would appear to be a grey market import, without a real ROPS.

Like lots of Chinese equipment, it looks best suited to level ground.

All the best,

Peter

I don't know anything more than what's in the eBay ad -- never saw one before. Here's the Q&As from that ad:

Q: THE ATTACHMENTS PICTURED ARE THEY INCLUDED IN THE AUCTION, DOES THE UNIT HAVE A/C, IS THIS A HARD CAB OR A COVERED CANOPY, IS THE CAB SAFTY (ROPS) CERTIFIED? LAST ONE DO YOU HAVE SPECS ON CLEARANCE HEIGHTS, TURNING, TIPPING, LIFTING, ETC.. ALL MACHINE PERFORMANCE AND OPERATIONAL SPECS CAN THEY BE SENT TO ME FOR REVIEW? Jul-23-07

A: Hello yes teh attachments are included you get teh bucket and grapple forks.This unit has heater No A/C.This unit has A Permanant Cab this is a chinese loader so they are certified for chinese standards .when bucket is lifted the maximum height when curled back the height is 9.5ft when it is raised max and bucket is level the height is 9ft when bucket is raised and in dump position it is 7.71 ft measurements are from bottom back of bucket.Load Capacity is 1000kg so about 2000 pounds has 13ft turning radius

Q: Hi, sturid question. where are they made? are parts easy to get? MichaelJul-21-07

A: Hello they are made in china they have same EPA engines as Jinma tractors so they are reliable you get parts directly from us thanks

Q: what gpm is the hydraulics and does it have remotes for the hydraulics?Jul-20-07

A: Hello manufacture states about 18gpm for the hydros it has a lever to operate.

Watching the movie, it has 3 levers to control the hydraulics (no joystick). I couldn't see any hydraulic quick-connects, much less a QA for the attachments... according to the ad you found, it has the same engine as a Jinma. A complete set of specs would certainly help.

Crude, but inexpensive...

 

[Marks481]

Looks like a nice tractor, but I am guessing (if you actually got one) that you would be up a creek as far as parts or service goes.

Buying from an ebay seller with only a 93% positive rating is a really bad idea. Buying something for $20k from someone who has only sold (crummy) birdcages in the past, and has not received a single feedback since 2002, and has only 91 lifetime feedbacks is just asking to kiss your money goodby.

$985 to ship a tractor coast to coast? Someone tell me where I can find shipping rates like that. If it sounds too good to be true, then it probably is. Read the fine print. Paypal will NOT protect you from fraud in this situation.

 

[California]

I got as far as 'Transmision= Mechanical'.

This might be a quick-working rig except for that. I thought shuttles (or hydrostatic) were universal for modern loaders.

 

[KentT]

Tim,

Someone had to be the first person to import Jinma tractors, and now they're everywhere -- including your local TSC -- under many different brand names....

I'm not suggesting that this is a good machine (or that Jinma is a good tractor), or a good deal, or a good person to buy from -- only that an articulated diesel loader with attachments for under $20K is likely going to get some attention... Once there's a significant number of Jinmas in the US, then the market will make parts available -- it will be practical for someone to buy, warehouse and distribute them, once the market is there.

Meanwhile, I'd love to see a PT with a 25-30 HP water-cooled diesel that was affordable. IMO, the PT-1430 is overpriced for what it is, while the 422/425 models are in the "sweet spot"...

Perhaps even some "name-brands" will get involved...

 

[horse7]

I've been wondering when the Chinese would invade the PT/Kut Kwick/et al markets. Especially PT doesn't seem to have invested very much in patents or other IP making it easier for the Chinese and Indians to make knock offs with cheap labor.

Maybe it will push PT to implement some of the changes that people here seem to want-- or increase the use of (gasp!) DFM to reduce costs, increase quality/reliability, and ease maintenance.

Personally, I wish they'd ditch the steering wheel and use a stick on articulated machines.

 

[MossRoad]

That machine has drive shafts, differentials and standard transmission. The only thing in common with the PT is articulation. A few other differences that I noticed are the operator sits on the rear half. On the PT, with the exception of the Back Hoe equipped units, the operator sits on the front half. I don't think PT has anything to worry about.

It is interesting, though. How can they sell it so cheap with a cab, diesel engine, 4WD, etc... ??? Looking at the video, it looks cheaply made. Maybe it is just me, but it looked like thin steel on the loader arms, small diameter cylinders and thin steel on the grapple, too. I's have to see it in person.

There is an old guidline in the computer industry that goes like this...

Draw a triangle and at one point write CHEAP. On another point write GOOD. On the third point write FAST. You can pick any two points when designing a computer system. I think this might apply to that loader with the cheap and fast points.

 

[KentT]

The only thing in common with the PT is articulation.

I'm not sure I'd go that far...

I guess an HST tractor has nothing in common with a gear-driven shuttle-shift... Or, a manual transmission car isn't a real car...

We're seeing the mini-skidsteer market such as Toro Dingo, etc. grow exponentially. We're seeing the smaller-sized (40HP or less) skidsteer market grow, including new tracked machines from ASV. These ALL have hydraulic front PTOs and QAs. There's quickly become a de facto standard for the QAs on the Dingo-class machines, just as there is on the skidsteers... (I've considered fabbing a PT adapter plate, so I could rent mini-skid PHDs or trenchers, for example.)

I certainly wouldn't be surprised if we see a growing market for small payloaders also.... right now, only Gehl (Avante), Yanmar and Kubota offer them in the 40HP (or even smaller) range, as far as I know. The Gehl one is quite similar to the PT, but MUCH more expensive. Both the Yanmar and Kubota are a bit too heavy for use by landscaping companies due to the amount of trailering required in that work. They're better suited for construction.

Just one example -- think of all the small skidsteers used on farms to muck stables, clear stalls, etc. IMO, there'd be a market there for small payloaders that are quicker, more maneuverable, and do less surface damage than traditional skidsteers. They wouldn't have to be "construction grade" -- just solid agricultural grade.

Construction is far more demanding, and requires a heavier duty machine. Then, there's the homeowner/estate owner who doesn't necessarily even need ag-duty machines -- the market that SCUTs is targeted at. IMO, that's the "build level" of PTs -- not ag-duty, certainly not construction-duty, but more a heavy-duty homeowner or estate owner level...

At this price point, I think they'll get some attention, if they can get some kind of distribution network going...

 

[Barryh]

I've been wondering when the Chinese would invade the PT/Kut Kwick/et al markets. Especially PT doesn't seem to have invested very much in patents or other IP making it easier for the Chinese and Indians to make knock offs with cheap labor.

Maybe it will push PT to implement some of the changes that people here seem to want-- or increase the use of (gasp!) DFM to reduce costs, increase quality/reliability, and ease maintenance.

Personally, I wish they'd ditch the steering wheel and use a stick on articulated machines.

Not sure how they compare in price but, I would think something like this would be competitive with the PT. Ugly little thing but looks pretty darn capable if you scroll down and watch the videos AVANT 200

 

[KentT]

Not sure how they compare in price but, I would think something like this would be competitive with the PT. Ugly little thing but looks pretty darn capable if you scroll down and watch the videos AVANT 200

Barry,

Gehl imports and sells that one's big-brother under their brand name as the Gehl Advantage, in the US:

Gehl Company - Compact Equipment for Construction and Agriculture

Here's an interesting article on these small loaders:

Compact Equipment Cover Story

It reminds me that I'd forgotten the CSF Multione -- these are the closest to what I'd dream of in a PT:
Multione -- especially the SL models. I like these specs -- for my uses: Sl Series Specs

ADDED: Also, see this old discussion thread: http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/power-trac/69146-power-trac-wanna-bee.html

 

[MossRoad]

...Just one example -- think of all the small skidsteers used on farms to muck stables, clear stalls, etc. IMO, there'd be a market there for small payloaders that are quicker, more maneuverable, and do less surface damage than traditional skidsteers. They wouldn't have to be "construction grade" -- just solid agricultural grade.

Construction is far more demanding, and requires a heavier duty machine. Then, there's the homeowner/estate owner who doesn't necessarily even need ag-duty machines -- the market that SCUTs is targeted at. IMO, that's the "build level" of PTs -- not ag-duty, certainly not construction-duty, but more a heavy-duty homeowner or estate owner level...

At this price point, I think they'll get some attention, if they can get some kind of distribution network going...

Look at the size of that thing compared to a skid steer. It won't fit where a skid steer can go. If they size it down to fit, it won't have the lifting capacity that a skid steer has. I just don't see any farmers looking at that type of machine when a skid steer will do what they want. Decent used skid steers can be had at auctions for 10 grand. Farmers are a practical bunch. They have big machines for big jobs, an old IH or Deere with a belly mower for the yard, and a beat up skid steer for the stalls. Maybe if corn prices skyrocket due to the ethenol situation, farmers will start spending money on new equipment again, but it seems like too specialized a piece of equipment to own.

I have only seen a couple of the small loaders like the Kubota's around here. They aren't taking off in sales. I've never seen a Gehl or Avant anywhere around here except in a sales yard down closer to Indianapolis.

 

[KentT]

I have only seen a couple of the small loaders like the Kubota's around here. They aren't taking off in sales. I've never seen a Gehl or Avant anywhere around here except in a sales yard down closer to Indianapolis.

At $50K, I can see why they aren't selling like hotcakes -- my point exactly...

As far as size -- they gotta start somewhere. It's not that much bigger than a PT T-18 ($20K, weighing about 4,000 lbs) and smaller than the T-24 ($23K, about 5600 lbs) class, where those prices don't include any attachments...

 

[TRUKFXR]

Interesting Chinese Loader. Wouldn't want one, but always neat to see something different. Can not imagine wanting a manual trans on something like that.
As regards to the avant/gehl equipment. I have the Gehl AL20dx. The Gehl is the same as the 500 series Avant and made by Avant for U.S. distribution. I am very happy with its performance and function. Unlike the Power trac and Multi-one tractor it does not oscillate. It articulates only. I enjoy reading the Power Trac coments because my tractor is similar in capability to the 425 series. Different, but similar. I considered the kubota and John deer cut, but am very glad I made the choice I did. If I ever figure out how to use my camera, I'll post some pictures. I use the power trac mowers on my tractor now. I mow about 4 acres. Use the box blade and rake to maintain my drive (about 1500 ft).

 

[Barryh]

Barry,

Gehl imports and sells that one's big-brother under their brand name as the Gehl Advantage, in the US:

Gehl Company - Compact Equipment for Construction and Agriculture

Here's an interesting article on these small loaders:

Compact Equipment Cover Story

It reminds me that I'd forgotten the CSF Multione -- these are the closest to what I'd dream of in a PT:
Multione -- especially the SL models. I like these specs -- for my uses: Sl Series Specs

ADDED: Also, see this old discussion thread: http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/power-trac/69146-power-trac-wanna-bee.html

Very interesting article in deed. As these little utility machines flood the market, there should be more upper end used machines floating around for sale at a decent price. That Multione is one impressive machine. Looks like it might hold the title for attachment king with up to 50 attachments. Wish they had separate pictures for all of the attachments. I’m always looking for new ideas to add to my list.

 

[Barryh]

Interesting Chinese Loader. Wouldn't want one, but always neat to see something different. Can not imagine wanting a manual trans on something like that.
As regards to the avant/gehl equipment. I have the Gehl AL20dx. The Gehl is the same as the 500 series Avant and made by Avant for U.S. distribution. I am very happy with its performance and function. Unlike the Power trac and Multi-one tractor it does not oscillate. It articulates only. I enjoy reading the Power Trac coments because my tractor is similar in capability to the 425 series. Different, but similar. I considered the kubota and John deer cut, but am very glad I made the choice I did. If I ever figure out how to use my camera, I'll post some pictures. I use the power trac mowers on my tractor now. I mow about 4 acres. Use the box blade and rake to maintain my drive (about 1500 ft).

Some pictures would be nice for sure. I would like to see it going through it's paces. As you said, always interesting to see something a little different from time to time.

 

[ponytug]

So... Why did you buy the Gehl? Pros? Cons? Do it again?
No point in keeping the discussion red or green.

Always wondering what the grass looks like on the other side of the fence.

All the best,

Peter

Interesting Chinese Loader. Wouldn't want one, but always neat to see something different. Can not imagine wanting a manual trans on something like that.
As regards to the avant/gehl equipment. I have the Gehl AL20dx. The Gehl is the same as the 500 series Avant and made by Avant for U.S. distribution. I am very happy with its performance and function. Unlike the Power trac and Multi-one tractor it does not oscillate. It articulates only. I enjoy reading the Power Trac coments because my tractor is similar in capability to the 425 series. Different, but similar. I considered the kubota and John deer cut, but am very glad I made the choice I did. If I ever figure out how to use my camera, I'll post some pictures. I use the power trac mowers on my tractor now. I mow about 4 acres. Use the box blade and rake to maintain my drive (about 1500 ft).

 

[3238dpw]

I always thought this would be a great idea for the 425 to help with the low lift hight problem. ag
Scott

 

[Barryh]

Interesting Chinese Loader. Wouldn't want one, but always neat to see something different. Can not imagine wanting a manual trans on something like that.
As regards to the avant/gehl equipment. I have the Gehl AL20dx. The Gehl is the same as the 500 series Avant and made by Avant for U.S. distribution. I am very happy with its performance and function. Unlike the Power trac and Multi-one tractor it does not oscillate. It articulates only. I enjoy reading the Power Trac coments because my tractor is similar in capability to the 425 series. Different, but similar. I considered the kubota and John deer cut, but am very glad I made the choice I did. If I ever figure out how to use my camera, I'll post some pictures. I use the power trac mowers on my tractor now. I mow about 4 acres. Use the box blade and rake to maintain my drive (about 1500 ft).

Not to stray off topic. I know this is way out there, but speaking of something different. I just had to post this interestng amazing feat. Agriculture equipment, farm magazines, farm equipment, farm inventions, farm machinery, agriculture machinery

 

[TRUKFXR]

Ponytug,
I wanted the diesel engine. Needed the extra lift height the the Gehl offers. Found a good deal on a used machine (the only way to buy one, otherwise they are too pricey). Not many accessories available from Gehl.
They don't keep the mowers (no real demand) and the accessories are expensive anyway. With a little innovation, the power trac stuff can be made to work. Dealer support is only fair (not a lot of these units out there).
Some of the things I really admire about the design (very easy access to most systems) and some things could use some improvement, but then what doesn't. Would I buy another -----man, in heart-beat. Would I recommend one------you betcha. Those of you who own power-tracs understand the
enthusiasm there is for this type of tractor.