Integrated ZTR transaxles

[MultiMow]

I've been comparing ZTR transaxles for a build.

So far, I've found two options... the Hydro-Gear 5400 and Parker HTG.

I like the Hydro-Gear for its hi/lo range final drive, but it's only rated for a 2,000lb GVWR.

The Parker is rated for 2,500lb GVWR, but it lacks the two-range final drive. The lack of geared finals is great from a dependability standpoint (less opportunity for fluid contamination)... but this build desperately requires finite control at low speeds.

Does anyone know of any comparable units from other manufacturers?

 

[MinnesotaEric]

My mower weighs a little over 1200 pounds. It has 5400s. Hydrogen claims their largest drives, the 5400, can handle machines that weight 2200 pounds. Leading Manufacturer of Precision Drive Solutions - Hydro-Gear - ZT-5400 Powertrain®

 

[BoylermanCT]

What are you building with the drives? Assuming it is not a mower as most of us buy those already built!

 

[MossRoad]

Is that 2200# vehicle per PAIR of those?

If so, that's about 1100# per one.

Which is even less when you consider at least some of the weight would be on the front, non-driven wheels.

Just something to think about.

Give them a call and ask.

 

[MultiMow]

I've already talked to them at the GIE+Expo in Louisville.

Yes, that's 2,200lb total.

It basically amounts to wether I want to build it lighter with more control, less capacity, and increased transit (no load) speed with the Hydro-Gear...

...or run the Parkers for greater dependability and higher capacity, and choose a single speed compromise between low speed control and transit speed.

 

[MultiMow]

What are you building with the drives? Assuming it is not a mower as most of us buy those already built!

An implement carrier.

 

[MossRoad]

I've already talked to them at the GIE+Expo in Louisville.

Yes, that's 2,200lb total.

It basically amounts to wether I want to build it lighter with more control, less capacity, and increased transit (no load) speed with the Hydro-Gear...

...or run the Parkers for greater dependability and higher capacity, and choose a single speed compromise between low speed control and transit speed.

As we talked previously.... beware the lack of low speed/high torque if you need any pulling power. In other words... choose your compromise wisely.

 

[MultiMow]

Indeed.

That was another reason why I was leaning toward the Hydro-Gear 5400.

 

[BoylermanCT]

An implement carrier.

Do you have a picture or plans we can look at? Very curious about it. Thanks!

 

[MinnesotaEric]

Indeed.

That was another reason why I was leaning toward the Hydro-Gear 5400.

The biggest Parker HTG will also require remote oil reservoirs just like the 5400s. There seems to be no way to make a direct comparison via specs as Parker doesn't even publish the same specs as Hydro-Gear. I've never tried the Parkers but the 5400s have a very nice, light touch to their controls. On my Ferris, like most OEMs, they do not mess around with the two speed and so I cannot speak to the lower torque 18mph travel setting.

 

[Xfaxman]

The next step up would be individual hydraulic motors: Surplus Center

Here is one from a TORO traction unit: #2 – Used Toro Hydraulic Wheel Motor – 95-8694 – Cutter Equipment Company Leaders in Pre-owned Turf Equipment –

 

[MultiMow]

The biggest Parker HTG will also require remote oil reservoirs just like the 5400s. There seems to be no way to make a direct comparison via specs as Parker doesn't even publish the same specs as Hydro-Gear. I've never tried the Parkers but the 5400s have a very nice, light touch to their controls. On my Ferris, like most OEMs, they do not mess around with the two speed and so I cannot speak to the lower torque 18mph travel setting.

Another thing I like about Hydro-Gear, has more to do with current market availability for the controls system I'm considering... which would be the single joystick control used by Country Clipper.

On the other hand, Cub Cadet is using Parker HTGs on their new Pro Z 900 S, which has steering wheel control. I also demo'd one of these in Louisville and was THOROUGHLY impressed.

The whole purpose of this build is to provide the maneuverability of a ZTR, with the flexibility of bi-directional operation. A machine that will allow you the time saving convenience of front-facing operation... but also be capable of rear operation such as grading/conditioning your driveway, tilling a garden, or mowing open areas with less dust in your face.

Look at it this way... 99% of consumer sales of compact tractors are for property maintenance. They get the job done... but at the end of the day, they're still vastly compromised ag tractors that have been adapted to serve other purposes. Sure, I could buy an articulated tractor (Ventrac/Steiner/PowerTrac), but bidirectional operation with their fixed operator position requires front and rear hydraulics... a cost and added maintenance I don't need, with less maneuverability.

What I'm doing is taking the best of what I need from the different tractors, implement carriers, mowers, etc. that I've looked at... and combining them into one machine.... all while getting rid of what is undesirable, unnecessary.

If you've ever operated a ZTR or Toro Groundsmaster and thought "Man... of this thing had an auger/post-driver, loader, hoe, and would face the other way to grade my driveway, I'd be all set!".... THAT'S what I'm building here.

 

[MultiMow]

The next step up would be individual hydraulic motors: Surplus Center

Here is one from a TORO traction unit: #2 – Used Toro Hydraulic Wheel Motor – 95-8694 – Cutter Equipment Company Leaders in Pre-owned Turf Equipment –

View attachment 488303

Indeed... but I'm trying to avoid the associated cost, parsitic power loss, leak points, parts count, noise... you get the picture.

I'm fairly certain I can keep the working weight within 2,200lbs... but the added 300lb capacity of the Parkers would go a long way toward loader attachment capacity.

 

[4570Man]

You could add a axel shaft and only drive it with the hydraulic motor. You'd then have unlimited weight range with the only short coming being the power to move it.

 

[MossRoad]

Another thing I like about Hydro-Gear, has more to do with current market availability for the controls system I'm considering... which would be the single joystick control used by Country Clipper.

On the other hand, Cub Cadet is using Parker HTGs on their new Pro Z 900 S, which has steering wheel control. I also demo'd one of these in Louisville and was THOROUGHLY impressed.

The whole purpose of this build is to provide the maneuverability of a ZTR, with the flexibility of bi-directional operation. A machine that will allow you the time saving convenience of front-facing operation... but also be capable of rear operation such as grading/conditioning your driveway, tilling a garden, or mowing open areas with less dust in your face.

Look at it this way... 99% of consumer sales of compact tractors are for property maintenance. They get the job done... but at the end of the day, they're still vastly compromised ag tractors that have been adapted to serve other purposes. Sure, I could buy an articulated tractor (Ventrac/Steiner/PowerTrac), but bidirectional operation with their fixed operator position requires front and rear hydraulics... a cost and added maintenance I don't need, with less maneuverability.

What I'm doing is taking the best of what I need from the different tractors, implement carriers, mowers, etc. that I've looked at... and combining them into one machine.... all while getting rid of what is undesirable, unnecessary.

If you've ever operated a ZTR or Toro Groundsmaster and thought "Man... of this thing had an auger/post-driver, loader, hoe, and would face the other way to grade my driveway, I'd be all set!".... THAT'S what I'm building here.

I think you're on the right track for your wants and needs....

Power Trac used to offer a 3pt hitch on the rear of some of their models. They did away with it. Why do you think they did away with it? Why do I think they did away with it?

I think they did away with it because:
A. Nobody was buying it.
B. Since they only had one speed range, they had to compromise, so they didn't have enough grunt for ground engaging implements like dirt plows.
C. For the very few times that most of us PT owners would like to drag something along behind us, we can drive backwards and not be too upset, given the benefits of everything out front out-weighs the drawbacks of the occasional look over the shoulder.

Take my firewood gathering, for example.... I drive into the woods forward at 8mph, grab a tree with the tongs on the FEL arms, and I back out at 8mph dragging the tree along looking over my shoulder. If the FEL arms were on the rear, I'd have to do a little turnaround dance at the log, then try and back up and grab the log while looking over my shoulder. I'd rather hook up forward and skid out backward.

So I take your driveway grading example, as that's a very good example of a drag application...
The PT425 has a rear pin hitch. So why not just use something like a DR Power Grader and drag it along with the PT?

 

[MultiMow]

I think you're on the right track for your wants and needs....

Power Trac used to offer a 3pt hitch on the rear of some of their models. They did away with it. Why do you think they did away with it? Why do I think they did away with it?

I think they did away with it because:
A. Nobody was buying it.
B. Since they only had one speed range, they had to compromise, so they didn't have enough grunt for ground engaging implements like dirt plows.
C. For the very few times that most of us PT owners would like to drag something along behind us, we can drive backwards and not be too upset, given the benefits of everything out front out-weighs the drawbacks of the occasional look over the shoulder.

Take my firewood gathering, for example.... I drive into the woods forward at 8mph, grab a tree with the tongs on the FEL arms, and I back out at 8mph dragging the tree along looking over my shoulder. If the FEL arms were on the rear, I'd have to do a little turnaround dance at the log, then try and back up and grab the log while looking over my shoulder. I'd rather hook up forward and skid out backward.

So I take your driveway grading example, as that's a very good example of a drag application...
The PT425 has a rear pin hitch. So why not just use something like a DR Power Grader and drag it along with the PT?

Agreed, on most points... but there are times when you really do want rear mount.

For instance, a wide area mower is MUCH better on the rear. Dust doesn't affect/effect you much in normal mowing... but when you have 12-16ft of mower, dust becomes an issue.

 

[MultiMow]

Regardless... nobody is making a zero turn compact utility tractor.... and given the low horsepower applications of 99% of most property maintenance applications, and the huge benefit to be had...

 

[MossRoad]

Agreed, on most points... but there are times when you really do want rear mount.

For instance, a wide area mower is MUCH better on the rear. Dust doesn't affect/effect you much in normal mowing... but when you have 12-16ft of mower, dust becomes an issue.

There was a member here on TBN named Bubenberg that towed two 57" Kunz acreaze mowers behind his PT425 while running the PT finish mower. He was using the 60", but last I heard he went down to the 48". So, after overlap, he had somewhere between 12 and 13' of coverage. He towed both the mowers staggered off the left side. He said something about it making a nicer pattern and easier to control.

Kunz, AcrEase Tow-Pull Behind Mowers & Till-Ease ATV UTV Tillage Equipment, Finish and Rough Cut Trailmowers

Here's a link to the thread... back in 2002.
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...season.html?highlight=kunz+acreaze#post125331

 

[4570Man]

Regardless... nobody is making a zero turn compact utility tractor.... and given the low horsepower applications of 99% of most property maintenance applications, and the huge benefit to be had...

Isn't that called a skid steer?

 

[MultiMow]

Isn't that called a skid steer?

Not really...

Skid steers are MURDER on turf.