Installing water service soon

[Mike058]

I'm going to put in the water line soon and have been wondering about a couple of things. The total run will be about 300'. I'm not sure if I should go 3/4" or 1". And what material to use? I found this list PVC, PE, copper, PEX, PEX-AL-PEX or PE-AL-PE, and figure copper isn't an option for me (I'm getting poorer all the time). Is PVC the way to go considering cost and ease of installation? Thanks

After posting I ran across a chart that suggested I should use 1-1/4" for this length. Based on pressure and fixtures in the house. I'm wondering what others in my place have used.

 

[Jimbrown]

1 1/4 all the way. You will regert going smaller. Plus the larger the PVC generally the stronger it is.

 

[Highbeam]

300' I would be using something bigger than 1" line and I would definitely use a roll of black PE which is what all new construction has been using for more than the last 10 years in the NW.

1" rolls of PE don't cost much less than 1.25 or 1.5". Heck, I've had guys buy the 2" PE in rolls for runs that are a bit longer. If this is your main line I would go with 1.5". Is this to a well or a water meter? Are you using a residential sprinkler system for fire protection in your home?

 

[Mike058]

300' I would be using something bigger than 1" line and I would definitely use a roll of black PE which is what all new construction has been using for more than the last 10 years in the NW.

1" rolls of PE don't cost much less than 1.25 or 1.5". Heck, I've had guys buy the 2" PE in rolls for runs that are a bit longer. If this is your main line I would go with 1.5". Is this to a well or a water meter? Are you using a residential sprinkler system for fire protection in your home?

It's a water meter. We're going to have to have a monitored alarm system installed for the fire protection. From the little study I've done so far it's looking like using at least 1-1/4". Check out this page Water Supply Fixture Units (WSFU) and minimum fixture branch pipe sizes Near the bottom, there is a chart that shows how long a supply should be based on it's size and the size of the service. What's interesting to me, is it doesn't list 1-1/2 supply for a 3/4" meter (which is what I have). Does anybody know if there isn't any gain in going 1-1/2 if you only have the 3/4" service?

 

[scgargoyle]

1-1/4" pipe would seem to be overkill coming off of a 3/4" meter, but the reason you want bigger pipe is for frictional losses, which add up the further you go. If you restrict all 300' to 3/4", that is a lot of friction.

 

[KennethBrown]

I have around 60-65 pounds of pressure at my 3/4 meter. I ran 1" PE just slightly over 300 feet to the house. I only lost a few pounds of pressure. If I had it to do over again I would probably go to 1 1/4" just from what I've learned since but NOT because I've had any problems at all.

 

[Highbeam]

You don't lose pressure from the smaller line. You could use a 1/4" line and still have the same static pressure at the home as at the meter. That is, until you introduce flow which creates velocity in the pipe which makes friction where the water rubs the pipe which robs energy from the supply at the house end. Less energy equals both less pressure and less flow.

Buying, installing, and using 1.5" line is very similar to running 1.25". There is no penalty for using oversized line. Severe penalty for undersizing.

Without a residential sprinkler system and no extreme irrigation desires or elevation changes, you would be fine with the 1.25" that the link calls out. Use only brass fittings and if you can avoid using barbed fittings and instead use compression fittings then your system will remain leak free longer.

 

[RobJ]

I have around 60-65 pounds of pressure at my 3/4 meter. I ran 1" PE just slightly over 300 feet to the house. I only lost a few pounds of pressure. If I had it to do over again I would probably go to 1 1/4" just from what I've learned since but NOT because I've had any problems at all.

At our rural weekend place the water company can turn up the pressure if needed. I run about 100' with 3/4" and if I turn on the hose full blast you'd better hold on. I actually called them to have it cranked down a bit.

Rob

 

[Richard]

These guys have forgotten more than I've ever known on this so I'll just say this...

They dug my well... it's about 100 gallons/minute. They installed 3/4 HP pump rated at 10 gmp (although I think I get more).

Static level is 104 feet, total depth 310 feet and depth to bedrock is 63 feet (does this mean I've got 63 feet between my well and the bottom??)

That goes into what looks to be a 3/4" pipe into my basement.

I really wish I had access to more of the wells potential without having to re-do anything.

Kind of a side story...when they dug my well, evidently they stick some kind of measuring cup under something to measure how much water is coming out of the drill/well.

Seems when he did that, the volume of water blew his cup out of his hand and he had to go find a bucket to use. They said it was just like drilling for oil in the movies when they hit a geyser... once they broke through the rock and hit the water, it just came shooting out of the top of the rig.

Unfortunately, I wasn't here to watch.

 

[_RaT_]

1 1/4 all the way. You will regert going smaller. Plus the larger the PVC generally the stronger it is.

With PVC in schedule 40, the pressure rating goes down with an increrase in pipe diameter. With Class ratings like 150 or 200, the pressure rating remains the same.

For 300' with say 10 to 15 GPM, the typical flow you can expect through a 3/4" meter, go with a minimum of 1 1/4 or better. As Highbeam mentions, it all comes down to water velocity. The higher GPM will create a greater velocity. Anything over about 7 Feet per second is undesireable. Oversizing is never a problem and you get the added benefit that fittings like tees and 90's have far less impact on the line losses. As Highbeam mentioned, you have two pressures, static and dynamic. Static tells you what your best pressure is with no flow, dynamic is the pressure you get with a given system and a flow rate or GPM. Always account for the worst. 300' with 3/4" sch 40 at 20 GPM will have a pressure drop of 31.35 PSI, a severe pressure drop. A 1/ 1/4 would lose only 2.42 psi. A 1.5 inch PVC would lose 1.13 PSI. Go with 1 1/4" or larger.


Here is a quick and easy reference: Friction Loss Flow chart - FAMOUS PLUMBING SUPPLY

 

[Mike058]

Thanks a lot to everybody. On my water availability letter, it says there's 40 psi. I figure that's minimum. It might be more, but I figure the more people that hook up to the system over time, it'll drop a bit. I also notice that there isn't any hard and fast rule about sizing the line. The charts are kind of handy, but you still have to decide what situation you want to cover. How much water flow you need for the shower to keep going when someone flushes a toilet for instance. 1-1/4" PE is sounding pretty good. I'll ask about the brass compression fittings too. I really don't want to dig this thing up after it's in the ground.

I back filled 6" of dirt Saturday (that's what the power company wants to hook up the line) next I get all the big rocks out that fell in and lay the PE (Yes, it's ok with them for utilities to share the trench). I have to call the phone company and see what kind of cable I should lay down for them too. Cover that with 6 more inches of dirt, lay down the warning tape and fill it up.

I guess I should have asked this originally, do yard hydrants need support like a treated 2x4? Or can they stand up fine by themselves?

 

[RobJ]

I guess I should have asked this originally, do yard hydrants need support like a treated 2x4? Or can they stand up fine by themselves?

I'd put something there, maybe a piece of pipe so 1) you can see it and 2) might give a little more protection. I'd do this if the pipe was PVC or iron.

Rob

 

[Highbeam]

I've always added support for a yard hydrant by either putting it up against a building or using a 4x4 post. They are marked with the "bury" depth which is probably deep enough to keep them upright but since you also need to put all of that drain rock in there, I like to add more support.

That yard hydrant will be plumbed with 3/4" fittings and provide excellent flow for a single hose. Your normal home hose bib is only plumbed with 1/2" line plus various government restrictors. I wash my cars with the hydrant.

 

[kenmac]

Unless you have a very good memory. You may want to install a tracer wire so, you are able to locate the line in the future

 

[Highbeam]

I don't know about diggin it back up, ever. With the power lines buried immediately beneath the water line, phone lines right above, and the cheapness of a whole new waterline I would avoid the risk.

 

[kenmac]

I guess I missed the part about the utilities sharing the trench. If the power is in the same trench you already a tracer... Just for info....I have 60 psi incomming pressure to my house. I'am only about 50' from the water main. I ran a 1'' copper service from meter to my house

 

[Mike058]

I've always added support for a yard hydrant by either putting it up against a building or using a 4x4 post. They are marked with the "bury" depth which is probably deep enough to keep them upright but since you also need to put all of that drain rock in there, I like to add more support.

That yard hydrant will be plumbed with 3/4" fittings and provide excellent flow for a single hose. Your normal home hose bib is only plumbed with 1/2" line plus various government restrictors. I wash my cars with the hydrant.

4x4 sounds like a good idea. If someone hangs a bucket off of it, it's going to need plenty of support.

 

[Highbeam]

I'am only about 50' from the water main. I ran a 1'' copper service from meter to my house

Today's price for that one inch roll of soft copper is 11$ per foot!!!

 

[kenmac]

Today's price for that one inch roll of soft copper is 11$ per foot!!!

That's why I hear @#$%%% when I quote an A/C replacment. Or, plumbing jobs when they want copper water lines through out the house instead if PVC or pex

 

[_RaT_]

That's why I hear @#$%%% when I quote an A/C replacment. Or, plumbing jobs when they want copper water lines through out the house instead if PVC or pex

Curious why someone would choose copper over HDPE or PVC for a service line. Even slighlty acidic water will slowly etch away the copper. Not only do you loose your pipe over time but you drink it to!