Injector trouble
- Thread starter DennisStahley
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oldmech
Gold Member
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- Dec 26, 2006
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- Quebec
- Tractor
- Two Gravely Two L One with 10 h.p Dek-Diesel engine one Grillo 107d and one BCS 735 diesel
Hi! Everybody! I am an Old mechanick. You must take Compression. A diesel engine need a GOOD COMPRESSION 240-250PSI MINIMUM. I seen a diesel motor(Perkins) gasket burnt between two cylinders fire jump one cylinder to other take heavy deep way in the top of block. For begin work on motor I ALWAYS TAKE COMPRESSION. If Compression is low. You put Motor oil in cylinder(about one spoon ) and You take again compression. compression would be more (Need new rings). if not the Valve or gasket are trouble. Good luck! Oldmech
oldmech
Gold Member
- Joined
- Dec 26, 2006
- Messages
- 468
- Location
- Quebec
- Tractor
- Two Gravely Two L One with 10 h.p Dek-Diesel engine one Grillo 107d and one BCS 735 diesel
For Injector test! I remove injectors . I disconnect one fuel line from injection pump. I reconnect it at the pump in other way . I connect one injector at the line and start you loose the nut for remove air in line tight nut after no air and start again for watch the spray pathern. In shop we have a test pump with pressure gauge and we can adjust the opening pressure of injector.For injector often we change only the tip of injector and adjust the pressure. Oldmech
OP
DennisStahley
Bronze Member
Hioldmech said:
Thanks for the info. I will try this and see what happens Wish you lived here in Bradenton Fl. (haha)
OP
DennisStahley
Bronze Member
john_bud said:
Hi.
I will give this a try and see if I can hear anything, thanks for the info. You have been great with ideas it sure has been helpful to me I appreciate it.
Dennis
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DennisStahley
Bronze Member
RobJ said:
Hi Rob.
I just found out my tractor has sleeved walls.
gemini5362
Veteran Member
Dennis if you do decide to rebuild the engine that will make it easier.
With sleeved walls you dont have to bore the cylinders you just replace the sleeves. Hopefully you wont have to rebuild it though
With sleeved walls you dont have to bore the cylinders you just replace the sleeves. Hopefully you wont have to rebuild it though
OP
DennisStahley
Bronze Member
gemini5362 said:
Hi.
yes I hope I dont have to overhaul it also. I picked up the new injectors today so I will put them in tomorrow and see what happens. The mech. there at kubota shop also told me when taking compression reading if it is low try and spray some ATF in cyl. and take again and see if it helps? Will try that tomorrow also wish me luck as I need it.
Dennis
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DennisStahley
Bronze Member
FULLPULL said:
Hi;
Yes it sure is showing sign's of life, but I don't know if I am? (ha ha ) Will try and get it going today, nice here today around 80 has been cool in the 60 to cold to work on it. At least here.
Dennis
gemini5362
Veteran Member
DennisStahley said:
Dennis I am going to reiterate my advice. DO NOT do anything as a fix until you have run it for a while. Put the new injectors in and then start it and run it. It would be a shame if you put to much ATF in the cylinders and broke something when in reality all the tractor needs is a chance for it to run a while and get good and warmed up. I would not do anything at all to that engine until it has run at least an hour.
OP
DennisStahley
Bronze Member
gemini5362 said:
Hi.
well here it goes with todays find. I put new injectors in still would not run(waste of money like you said) so I used the no no stuff starter fluid again and got it running but it seems like the throtle is giving me trouble as a few times I had to spray a tiny but more SF in to keep it running and it ran about 15 min at first black smoke then some blue smoke then it ran with no smoke at all and ran pretty good except for throtel not responding like it should. It stalled a few times and would not start on its own so gave it a shot of SF very little and it started right up, and stalled a few times and will not start without SF. I dont know if I got the heart for this, it sure in a bummer.I dont know what to do next I am about ready to sell it but I know I couldnt get my money out of it paid $2,300.00 for it and have put around $500.00 in it so I am screwed a very dumb mistake on my pary I can see this now. As I cant afford to take it to shop and put anymore money in it seems like it would be throwing good money after bad. And wife is fed up with me trying to fix it with the money I have dumped into it and still not running. Good thing we been married 34 years or she would leave me ha ha Like I said I dont know where to go from here with it got any advice for me would be great.
Dennis
gemini5362
Veteran Member
ok so it started up with black smoke then run and got blue smoke then quit smoking ?DennisStahley said:
does it run for a few minutes and then stop like it is running out of fuel.
How long does it run before it stops
try getting it running then while it is running at an idle open up the fuel line at one of the injectors and let that bleed for a few minutes. Try that on each fuel line and see if it starts running better or dies. You still might have some air in the lines. Having to use starter fluid to keep it running makes me think of air in the lines. I would not worry one bit about the throttle at this point in time. If you are running off of starter fluid and not diesel then the throttle is not going to make much difference. After you have tried bleeding the lines again like I suggested above if it will run with just diesel and not constantly squirting starting fluid in it then let it run for a while at least an hour. MAKE SURE THE DIPSTICK SHOWS IT IS FULL OF OIL AND THAT IT DOES NOT OVERHEAT while it is running
Our old 3000 fords throttle is nonresponsive if 1 air in the line .2 Fuel filter stopped up.3 The throttle shut off not all the way open .4 running out of fuel.If it is getting or has air in the line it doesnt take much to be nonresponsive .I would check the throttle shut down again make shure it is all the way open.Bleed the injector's till no air bubble's it's worth a try again.Grab each fuel line and check to see if it is tight and not moving with the tractor not running.Check the fuel shutoff valve make shure it is all the way open. I am no mechanic full time but we had plenty of time working on diesel tractor's over the year's .These are just some of the thing's that i think it might be and would check.Some time's there are oring's on the fuel filter that can be rotten or gone or out of place letting air in.I still would check these simple thing's one more time .I hope this help's .
I would also read about the decompresion lever in the owner's manual if it has one set it where the engine doent turn fast when trying to start it. That should be run position .
I would also read about the decompresion lever in the owner's manual if it has one set it where the engine doent turn fast when trying to start it. That should be run position .
Last edited:
I am not familiar with your injector system but have experienced similar problems with other systems caused by the fuel return line check valve at the injector pump. In my case the check valve was fouled not allowing the ball valve to close. Engine would start and run fine for a few moments then start pushing white smoke. Throttle response was none existent and operation above idle was not possible.
Cleaned the valve and operation returned to normal.
As for the injectors I typically remove the injector and capture the fuel flow into a small container, motor the engine for 10 seconds and record the amount of fuel in the container. Repeat the process for all 3 injectors if the volume is the same then I know the injectors are flowing OK.
If you are still in doubt about your glow plug operation try running a jumper from the Battery positive side direct to the glow plug loop ( at the glow plug) this will bypass your switch and insure voltage is getting to your plugs, usually 10 seconds is enough to get a clean start.
Good Luck
Mark
Cleaned the valve and operation returned to normal.
As for the injectors I typically remove the injector and capture the fuel flow into a small container, motor the engine for 10 seconds and record the amount of fuel in the container. Repeat the process for all 3 injectors if the volume is the same then I know the injectors are flowing OK.
If you are still in doubt about your glow plug operation try running a jumper from the Battery positive side direct to the glow plug loop ( at the glow plug) this will bypass your switch and insure voltage is getting to your plugs, usually 10 seconds is enough to get a clean start.
Good Luck
Mark
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DennisStahley
Bronze Member
gemini5362 said:
Hi Gemini
I think I might still be sucking air I see on the injector pump where the 3 lines go to the injectors a very,very small amount os wet between the connections I have tightened them up so much I dont think they will go any more. When it was running I cracked one injector line and eingine droped in power, I did not do other ones. I dont see any tape or anything on lines to stop leak, but I would think this is where my problem is. I had it running for 10-15 minutes it was ideling real good by it self I even went in garage to get something and it ran real good whil I was gone, but maybe like you said it seems like it is running out of fuel and I guess if the pipe is getting a littie wet it could suck in air am I right thinking this way? It sure has me bummed, with all I have done to it and still not running. I was wondering about the spring in the throtel control if it is weak? but I guess I should try and get lines fixed first but I dont know what to do as I have tightened them as tight as they will go.could I put teflon tape on threads?It ran great for awhile no smoke at all sounded real good just no response on the speed control??
Let me know your next step that you would do and I will try it.
Dennia
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DennisStahley
Bronze Member
masphi said:
Hi Mark
I don't think I have a check valve on retutn line as mine goes from the injectors back to the fuek tank and not back to the pump. So I dont know what it is yet, trying to get it running, ran great for 10 min. then acts like starving for fuel I must have a air leak some where?
Dennis
RobJ
Elite Member
DennisStahley said:
The area you are describing is on the pressure side, not possible to suck air there. I agree with the others, non responsive throttle point to fuel, air, etc.
oldmech
Gold Member
- Joined
- Dec 26, 2006
- Messages
- 468
- Location
- Quebec
- Tractor
- Two Gravely Two L One with 10 h.p Dek-Diesel engine one Grillo 107d and one BCS 735 diesel
Hi! My opinion! First Check fuel flow at the filter Drain it for remove water you must to have a good flow of fuel. Second look for find a plug for drain the fuel pump injection again you must have a good flow of fuel. Third You must replace or change the cracked line IMPOSSIBLE to repair. Very high pressure over 2400 PSI. Forth You MUST remove the air in all injector lines. the best way You need a helper for start the motor when in same time you loose the nut at the injector line when you have a good flow with no air you tight the nut. you make all injectors. Fift Kubota are indirect injection you need GOOD GLOW PLUGS . You heat Glow plugs for one minute or more . I think you are near . Good luck! Oldmech
Dennis
I am in Africa at the moment so can not look at my Kubota, however the check valve I had a problem with was on a 580C Case it also returns to the tank, however if you follow the line back it has a connection at the pump as well. This is where the check valve I am referring to was located.
As for the fuel leakage you are seeing between thye pump and the injectors it should not leak however it will not suck air.
It is hard to imagine that the problem is air as after 10 minutes of operation the system should be completely bled.
Durring the 10 minutes that it was running well was it responsive to throttle input?
Mark
I am in Africa at the moment so can not look at my Kubota, however the check valve I had a problem with was on a 580C Case it also returns to the tank, however if you follow the line back it has a connection at the pump as well. This is where the check valve I am referring to was located.
As for the fuel leakage you are seeing between thye pump and the injectors it should not leak however it will not suck air.
It is hard to imagine that the problem is air as after 10 minutes of operation the system should be completely bled.
Durring the 10 minutes that it was running well was it responsive to throttle input?
Mark
