In need of some really basic help

Anonymous Poster · May 27, 2003

I've read through a bunch of stuff here (and laughed a LOT at the "what have you run over" thread!) and found a ton of information that I'm sure would be useful to me IF I knew what I needed to know to start with!

We have bought a bit over 10 acres. Roughly 6 of this will be turned into pasture for the 2 (currently) horses. About 3 of it is currently waist-high in what WOULD be decent hay except for the presence of a few too many short-stemmed briars /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif I'm having a very hard time finding someone to at least come bushhog it for me. The other 3-ish acres were filled with small trees/large shrubs, the sort of thing that grows up in a neglected field. They were all taken out last fall, but are in need of renovating right now. I have someone who's going to do that and prepare it for seed. We are still building our house out there, and don't want to keep paying someone else to bushhog/mow it all summer long, so, to the point of my post... /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I need to find something suitable for mowing up to 6 acres of pasture. Used. In the beginning it will likely be 6 acres at a time, but eventually after getting the pasture sectioned off into 2-3 pastures it would be less mowing at a time - rotate the horses out and mow what they just came off of. I'm in the situation where I don't know what I don't know, so I don't even know the questions to ask. I just know I need to find something that can take care of that acreage, in a manner suitable for horse pasture. The ability to add attachments like a tiller, small snow plow, seed spreader, etc is a must as well. $$ is a huge concern, hence the used (very used most likely) requirement.

Is there any simple guidance you can give me? And can you please explain FEL, MMM, and some of the other common acronyms I've seen floating around here? Thanks - I'm sure I will find this place VERY useful!

Casimir · May 27, 2003

JBandRio:

Welcome to TBN. Most of us have been in your situation (don't know what we don't know). Some of us still are /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif.

Tractors, as with many other topics are fraught with acronyms:
FEL = Front End Loader
MMM = Mid Mount Mower
RFM = Rear Finish Mower
BB = Box Blade
etc. (and some folks make up as they go along /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif)

For your use, you will probably need something with about 20-30 Hp, with a rotary brush cutter ("brush hog") to mow the pasture. If the stuff isn't too big on the overgrown area, brush hogging it may also be the easiest way to clear it. It can then be disked or rototilled and reseeded to grass - or just keep it mowed for awhile and the grass may take over.

With horses (or without), I would strongly recommend getting a 4wd CUT (compact utility tractor) and a FEL. The loader will be the handiest implement of all, from moving horse manure to hauling feed, bedding, driving steel fence posts, and a thousand other uses you will find once you own one.

Finding a good used CUT will be difficult, but not impossible. Check out the Classified Ads here and surf the net. If you have a Nickel Classifieds, or something similar in your area, check it often and be ready to move fast if you find a good deal - they won't last long.

Checking out all the information available on TBN, and possibly buying Muhammad's book are excellent ways to prepare yourself to recognize a good deal when you find it.

Also, most of the major manufacturers have some excellent financing available now. You might be surprised what you can afford in a new unit. Properly cared for, they will last a lot of years - many sell used for more than they did new, due to inflation exceeding depreciation.

Get out and test drive some of the machines on the sales lots and check out what they might have in the way of trade-ins. That's how I finally found my tractor. Buying it from a dealer had the added advantage of getting it fully serviced and checked for major problems before I took delivery. It also gave me a chance to establish a good relationship with a dealer that I trust to treat me right when I have to pay for repairs.

Long winded, but I hope it helps. Good luck. Shopping is part of the fun. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

MarkV · May 27, 2003

First welcome to the forum and congratulations on the new place. Don't be afraid to ask questions, there are a lot of nice people willing to help here.

As far as acronyms we have a whole bunch. MMM= mid mount mower, also called a belly mower. This would be a finish mower for finer grass that is suspended below the tractor between the front and rear wheels. FEL= front end loader or just loader. TLB= tractor, loader, backhoe combination. The one you need to know about is Bush Hog= rotary mower for rough field mowing and clearing. Bush Hog is a brand name though the term is often used in a generic fashion when talking about rotary mowers.

Now what you need gets to be a little complicated due to all the possible options. In the most general sense I would say you need a tractor in the 25 –35 horse power range and a 5' rotary mower. If you can shed some light on how much you can invest at this time we can start looking for the right combination that might meet the budget.

MarkV

Anonymous Poster · May 27, 2003

As I was driving to my property last week, I spotted a flash of blue - what looked to be a mid-70's Ford tractor with a 5' brush hog attached, no FEL, with a For Sale sign on it, listing $1,200. They had to drive it to the intersection to display it, so it must have run. Traffic was heavy and I didn't want to stop. When I cam back past later, it was gone...and has remained gone, so I assume it was sold almost instantly. That's the kind of deal you want to look for. Don't be too concerned about the mechanics - if it runs, buy it. You won't lose anything - if you get it cheap enough, it will be worth almost as much for parts if it quits.

Yeah, a loader, 4WD, power steering, all those things are nice, but I hear you when you say finances are a huge factor. What that translates to me is that you could probably come up with a grand, but for 2 grand you would have to do without something. Been there, done that, know all about priorities - you did say you were in the middle of building a house.

So, buy anything that runs and has a brush hog (rotary mower, bush hog, all the same thing. I've seen them called a shredder). As long as it is a bona fide tractor, it's gonna have a 3 point hitch on the rear, which is the universal attachment point with hydraulic control. Thus, anything that attaches to the back of any other tractor will attach to the back of the one you get (there is a little fine print, such as category 1 and category 2, but don't sweat the details right now, they can all be worked around).

Ideally, the tires should have some life left in them and not be cracked, the wheels should not be rusty (you'll learn why after you've been here awhile - calcium chloride), the brakes and clutch should work, the battery and charging system should work, the 3-point hitch should go up and down (and stay up for at least a few minutes after you shut off the tractor) and nothing should be obviously loose or falling off.

Good luck and have fun. No matter what you get now, you can replace it later once the house is done, and by then you'll know what you don't know /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Woodbeef · May 27, 2003

I'd go along with Okee Don and suggest you look for an Ag-utility tractor. Something from the early 60s on with 30 hp or more should work. Plenty more to pick from vs CUTs. I'm not really sure if I'd trust a CUT with 5000 hours on it like I would an ag tractor too.

Inspector507 · May 27, 2003

First of all........welcome to our "home".

I second the post mentioning looking for a 50+HP used Ag tractor. They seem to be easier to come by and more cost effective in my area. These tractors in the diesel variety have many, many more years of life in them.

Jerry

Anonymous Poster · May 27, 2003

Wow, thanks for the great replies! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif To answer a few questions you all had, I think /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif I have a budget of $5,000. I feel like (just from seeing prices of old tractors, not knowing anything about them) I should be able to get something halfway decent and maybe a "necessary" attachment or two /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif The entire place used to be cow pasture (the entire AREA used to be cattle/dairy farms) and even includes, at the edge, a pretty cool under-road cow crossing /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

If I may, here are some pieces of equipment I've found in our state's Agricultural Review. I'd be ever so grateful if you could critique them and tell me if any are worth calling for and what ones to stay away from (and why):

- JD belly mower 72" mower, $350.
- 140 Farmall tractor w/cultivator, GC, $3,000.
- '55 Farmall Cub almost new Woods mower, $3,000, will sell mower separate for $800.
- Farmall Cub tractor w/belly mower & other equip., $2,500.
- Farmall Cub tractor new paint, cultivators, $2,500
- mowing deck to fit Cub
on model 140, $500.
- N Ford tractor w/bushhog, plow, harrow, sickle mower, $4,000 nego.
- Ford 8N red belly tractor w/4' bushhog, new tires good working condition,
$3,500.
- 5' bushhog, $225; 6' Howse landscape rake, $250, both are 3 pt hitch.

That's what I picked out from a HUGE list of things - these seemed, just from the wording, to fit what I thought might be good equipment for a reasonable price. Thanks!

Anonymous Poster · May 27, 2003

You may want to consider some of the gray (grey) market tractors. I've seen quite a few package deals in your price range. Just make sure you have a true 3 pt hitch. I once had a Farmall 140. While great for crops, it was a pain to utilize with a brush cutter, disk, etc.

riptides · May 28, 2003

I would like to recommend that you also factor in safety features on your pending purchase. Some of the older machines just don't offer roll-over protection, seat belts, power take off engine shutdown, good brakes, etc. etc.

IMHO
-Mike Z. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Anonymous Poster · May 28, 2003

Welcome to TBN ! (Tractor By Net)

"- N Ford tractor w/bushhog, plow, harrow, sickle mower, $4,000 nego.
- Ford 8N red belly tractor w/4' bushhog, new tires good working condition,
$3,500."

If it was me, I'd go check these out. I have a 9N and an 8N on my 20 acres. The 8N sounds like a good deal if the ad is accurate, as new tires would set you back around a grand.
These tractors would be great to learn on, and do everything (well, almost /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif) you'd need on a small "Horse Ranch". They seem to last forever, and parts are about the easiest to get of the older tractors.
Of course, I may be a little one sided since I have used them for the last 20 years. Don't get me wrong...they don't have power steering (except for going uphill with a brush-hog on behind /forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif), and no extra features, but I think either would be a good start.
I also have a JD 4010 Cut. Power Steering and Hydrostatic transmission...WOW! My poor fords have been sitting in the corner feeling rejected since I got my new toy, er, I mean tool (sorry dear /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif).
Good luck...I'm sure you'll have fun looking, buying, and learning. It's all part of the experience.
Just my .02 cents worth.

Rick

BB_TX · May 28, 2003

The 8Ns were, and are, great tractors. But I would recommend you find something with a front end loader. Beyond the rotary cutter, the FEL is the most valuable implement you will get on a tractor. There is no end to the uses you will find for it. And with horses, I would consider it almost essential. You could get a carryall and a rear scoop for an 8N, but that would in no way compare to an FEL. Just my opinion, of course. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

SteveM · May 28, 2003

I have been in your exact situation. First - are you mechanically inclined? For $5,000 or less, you need to be! I am a hobby tractor seller/trader/fanatic with 40 acres of forgotten fields and woods. Here are your options - all will require maintenance and repair from time to time:

1) Old Iron - a ford 600, 800 or other 3 digit would be best because it will have a live PTO and hydraulics. I have seen clean 600s with brush hog for 2500-3000. This leaves some money for other attachments as needed. Loaders were available, but they are slow and clunky - and do not come off. Plan on a grand or less additional if it has a loader.

2) Really old iron - Ford 2, 8 or 9n - these are from the 40s and 50s. OLD....but good, and cheap. They do not have live hydraulics or PTO - which means the clutch must be out for the lift to work, or the PTO shaft to spin. Very big pain in the butt! Price is about the same as the 600 and 800 series, which is why I suggest looking for a 600. You can tell I like Fords, but also consider Oliver 1600 series, Massey Ferg 35, 50, 135, 165 etc. Masseys are my other favorite. All these options are gas powered, with all that goes with it.

3) Older used Compact - for $5,000 you can get an older (80s) used compact - I have a massey 25hp 4wd compact with low hours that I snapped up for pretty good money- but snapped up is the right term. I saw the ad on Sunday, called monday, cash, trailer, no waiting - sold. There were 4 other people coming that night - in January, 12 degrees with light snow falling. They move fast! /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

4) Grey market - these tractors are made for in Japan for the Japanese market, and imported used in the US> No official dealer support, which is a challenge, and most important for you - these tractors are all small - most under 20hp. So I would avoid this route entirely.

5) Chinese new tractor- perhaps you enjoy spinning a wrench. HA HA I shouldnt be so mean. /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif If you want a shiney new tractor, and a shiney garage floor from all the leaking fluids, you can get a chinese tractor for $5 grand new. It will run for a while and you will probably end up pushing it off a cliff out of frustration. Skip this option if you actually want to use your tractor. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Take my opinion with a grain of salt, but understand that I have talked to literally dozens of tractor owners, buyers, sellers, auctioneers, dealers, so I have gotten around. Find a ford 600 /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

JohnMiller3 · May 28, 2003

...$$ is a huge concern, hence the used (very used most likely) requirement.... 

What is your $$$ budget?

looch · May 28, 2003

I'll also suggest "old iron." If you're mechanically inclined, great! If not, it would certainly help to be friendly with someone who is. Old Fords, Masseys, Olivers, Cases, JDs, Whites, et al are readily available with plenty of life left in them. Check out AgDealer for something in your area.

Anonymous Poster · May 28, 2003

My budget is currently $5k. It MIGHT be negotiable if I find we just can't get anything decent for that price that isn't going to be in need of constant repair. I am not mechanically inclined (at least not yet!) and while hubby can do a few things with a car, he's got no experience with tractors at all.

I'll definitely check out agdealer, thanks!

Anonymous Poster · May 28, 2003

Based on your budget, I might still stick with older iron if you want to stay out of debt, and put the $$$ into attchments and a loader. The loaders may be slow, but they work, and there is no requirement that they come off; it's nice, but I'll bet that more than 50% of the folks with quick-remove loaders never take them off.

As to which old iron, in my opinion, you're best sticking with a Ford; there is at least one site on the internet which guarantee they stock every part for every Ford tractor ever made. I, too, recommend the 600 series or newer. I love the N series. I had a deposit on one before I came to my senses and bought a new tractor. But there are definite limitations in the way the PTO (power take-off) works.

But now, take everything I said and throw it out the window now that I know you have ~$5,000 and some possible room for stretch. That's exactly what I had when I set my priorities. I put $5K down payment on a new New Holland complete with a package of new attachments, and am paying off the balance over 36 months with 0% interest - same as cash, less than $300/month! You could get by with something as small as my TC18 as long as you are willing to take 4' wide cuts with the brush hog instead of 5' or 6'. Or, you can go bigger - your dealer will be as happy with a $5K deposit on a TC33D as on a TC18, for example - just a few bucks more per month.

Now, you have a modern tractor with safety features, loader, hydrostatic drive, 4WD, power steering, great hydrualics, proper 3PH, your choice of tires, and whatever attachments you want for your $5K, and have a warranty, a dealer that (hopefully) will fall all over himself to help you, and can get busy with the fun of using the tractor instead of repairing the tractor.

I use the New Holland only as an example (although I wouldn't have picked it if I didn't like it); you can do equally well with Kubota or John Deere, depending on your preferences and the dealers in your area. As for the Korean, Japanese and Chinese tractors not supplied by the big three, it's my observation that few of them come with hydrostatic drive and dealer service may be spotty, and the finance packages may not be as attractive. There are exceptions, but there must be some reason why the price is lower, right? They all use similar components from similar sources; even the "big 3". But, that doesn't mean you shouldn't consider them - just be aware that you may not be comparing oranges to oranges. You'll also get a lively debate on whether hydrostatic drive is better than gear drive (which is what's on most of the imports); all I can say is I love my hydro, although I did spend about 80 hours on a Caterpillar Power Shift loader in the last couple of weeks, and that's pretty neat, too - all electric clutch and shifting (for about $50K).

riptides · May 28, 2003

You have some GREAT advise here. My story is documented somewhere in the safety forum, on rollovers. I will not bore you with the details, since I made my pitch for safety already.

My new pitch to you is what other noters have said. That of maintainance. Don, mentioned in a post of taking your money and buying new. That is another good piece of advise.

My Farmall circa 1949 was an exciting idea. I am mechanically aware, though not inclinded. I have no fond memories of that tractor. It served the purpose at the time, but all I recall is *messing* with it for hours, just to cut the grass. And back then, I had a lot less grass. I rebuilt the carburetor three or four times. the fuel system twice, the brake system twice, radiator once. The magneto, sent to the repair shop, hey what the heck is a magneto? Well I found out. My neighbor also rebuilt the whole thing for me after it rolled. Of course he did it after I had enough and pulled it into the garage for a more complete overhaul, rust, primer paint, wiring, electical system, blah, blah, blah.....

Now I have a nice, shiney new tractor, with all the modern safety features one could ask for. I have a dealer that supports me, I have the Kubota forum to give me advise, most of all, I turn the key and go.

After I put my glasses and seat-belt on. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

And the nice part ---- I have YET to call someone over in a sheepish voice to yank me out of some spot I use to get the Farmall stuck in.

From Don:
( and can get busy with the fun of using the tractor instead of repairing the tractor.
)
'nuf said.
-Mike Z. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

rtimgray · May 28, 2003

If you want the most usable horsepower for the dollar, go the route of the 2-9-8N - parts available everywhere, books available everywhere, multiple internet-based sources of info, etc.

If you want something that may be more user friendly and stay in the same price range, go with a YM1300 to YM3000 Yanmar. These are diesel powered tractors (the cheaper ones with gear transmissions, the nicer ones with powershift). These tractors will probably feel more user friendly and you may feel more comfortable with a smaller tractor that is more managable.

The parts/service issue for Yanmars is virtually a non-issue (for the YM series at least). There are tons of sources for parts, new and used - just stick with the most common models. Yes, I am biased because I have had one for over 4 years and the only things that I have replaced have been filters and had a little welding done on the 3 pt hitch - that's it.
As far as service, get a Harbor Freight catalog and buy a huge set of cheap tools and learn how to work on tractors - it's not too tough, plus you get to buy cool tools!

For $5,000 you can probably get a 4wd gear drive tractor with a FEL. No, it will not have a seat belt, ROPS, Live PTO, etc. but safety devices are no substitute for a careful operator. Many folks have been killed/injured because their tractors didn't have these features, but alot more people haven't been killed carefully operating their tractor.

Good Luck

Take it easy

Tim Gray

grandad · May 31, 2003

Welcome to TBN! Gosh, your place and plans sound almost exactly like ours... 10.5 acres, 6 open for pasture, building a house, etc. Where in NC are you located? I'm in Greensboro.

I faced pretty much the same decision last year and bought a new Kubota tractor, but the advice about getting a used farm tractor is very sound if you are on a tight budget. Here are some additional random ideas for you to consider.

1. Mowing that old pasture regularly will bring out the grass and eventually drive out most of the briars. So getting your own brush mower is probably at the top of your priorities.
2. Eventually you will want something with more versatility. For example, the front-end loader (FEL) is great for cleaning horse stalls, landscaping chores and a thousand other things, but it's pretty expensive, and it can be hard to find an older farm tractor with one in good condition. So, if you buy that used tractor now, maybe when the budget allows, you can replace it with a new compact rig that has all the bells and whistles.
3. I would look for a used tractor that is in decent condition and has been well-maintained, as best can be determined. As someone mentioned, finding parts for a used Ford, John Deere, etc. is usually not an issue, but even if you have the skills to do your own repairs, unless you are a gearhead, you really don't have the time to put into a really worn, fixer-upper.
4. If you have any hills, ditches, ravines, etc. on your property, be careful about how you would/would not drive the tractor on them. These older agricultural tractors are built with high ground clearance and upsets are an all-too-common tragedy on them. If you get one, think about adding a ROPS (roll-over protection) kit, which is available for many older tractors.
5. Take some time to check out some of the ag equipment dealers. You will learn a lot just from kicking the tires and 'talking trash' with them!
Good luck!