Improving Parking Brake

[BobRip]

I think this is a big enough problem that I started a new thread.

On the parking brake, my biggest problem is disengaging it, with the second problem getting the lever friction adjusted so that it does not self engage, but it can be manually engaged. I have though about this a little. I would like a spring in each cable so the lever can be moved and then the pins can disengage separately as they are released by turning the wheel. Right now you have to get both pins loose simultaneously. Gee, that sounds good. Then I want a lever that locks the brake handle off. I only use my brakes when trailering because of the difficult to disengage problem.

What issues do others have?

 

[pajoube]

I think this is a big enough problem that I started a new thread.

On the parking brake, my biggest problem is disengaging it, with the second problem getting the lever friction adjusted so that it does not self engage, but it can be manually engaged. I have though about this a little. I would like a spring in each cable so the lever can be moved and then the pins can disengage separately as they are released by turning the wheel. Right now you have to get both pins loose simultaneously. Gee, that sounds good. Then I want a lever that locks the brake handle off. I only use my brakes when trailering because of the difficult to disengage problem.

What issues do others have?

I agree with you regarding how hard it is to disengage. I am at the point that I do not use the parking brake at all, even when trailering. Most of my driving is on level ground so the brake is not necessary.
PJ

 

[MossRoad]

I think the current setup has springs that hold the pins IN until you pull them out with the lever. That way, should the cable break, the pins will automatically engage. If you put in springs to hold them disengaged and the cable broke, the parking brake would automatically fail, not work. Could be dangerous?

I realize it is frustrating, and I hate the current setup as well. If you make it lose enough to operate comfortably, it won't stay disengaged, and if you tighten it enough to stay disengaged, it is hard to operate. However, I think there are TWO problems with the current parking brake setup.

1. The pin gets stuck due to the pressure of the tractor resting against the pins. That's when you have to drive back and forth and/or wriggle the tractor while pulling on the lever to get the pins to pop out.

2. The lever is hard to operate, even when there is no pressure against the pins being applied by the tractor.

I got to looking at the parking brake setup on my wife's Impala. You step on the pedal once to engage the parking brake and then you step on it again to disengage it. It uses a ratcheting setup and the first time you step on it, it pulls the brake cable. The second time you step on it, it releases the cable. I was thinking about getting one from a junkyard and playing around with it. I think there is enough room to mount it on the left side of the left footwell and not interfere with the left treadle pedal. New cable might have to be purchased for the right pin because this is a longer run, but I think there would be surplus for the left pin. Also, new pulleys may have to be run. Anyway, you could step on it with your left foot the first time to disengage it while driving the tractor back and forth and/or wriggling it with your right foot over or under the right pedal(we've all done that before anyway, so it is no big operator adjustment). Then, just step on it again to engage it and drive forward or backwards until the pins pop into the locked position. Sounds simple enough. I'll have to check it our further... when I have the time, of course!

 

[Barryh]

I think this is a big enough problem that I started a new thread.

On the parking brake, my biggest problem is disengaging it, with the second problem getting the lever friction adjusted so that it does not self engage, but it can be manually engaged. I have though about this a little. I would like a spring in each cable so the lever can be moved and then the pins can disengage separately as they are released by turning the wheel. Right now you have to get both pins loose simultaneously. Gee, that sounds good. Then I want a lever that locks the brake handle off. I only use my brakes when trailering because of the difficult to disengage problem.

What issues do others have?

Ok, I moved this over from Bob’s other thread (weight Box on 2 inch receiver PT422) per Bob’s suggestion.

I noticed my PT doing a lot of clicking this morn, pulled it in the garage and checked it out. The brake cable was frayed, and the little screw in bolt was stripped so the cable was slowly slipping and engaging the parking brake.

I took the front wheels off for the first time, pushed the spring loaded pins in against the hubs, took the little cable holder off turned it around. The other side still had a good thread so switched sides, adjusted and tightened it back down. Now it's all good.

I’m not too impressed with this setup either. I would think at least they could have made cables with small loops or fittings on the ends, so it would have to break before the brakes self engage. The way it's setup the bolt will dig into the cable, and split it down the middle, once adjusted and tightened, the cable is pretty damaged making it more difficult for any readjustments.

 

[Barryh]

I agree with you regarding how hard it is to disengage. I am at the point that I do not use the parking brake at all, even when trailering. Most of my driving is on level ground so the brake is not necessary.
PJ

After going through this, I will not be using my brakes unless absolutely necessary. I do tend to agree that we need a better setup. I will also be doing some more thinking on improvement or another braking system all together. As stated it can be a pain to get it on or off. I use my foot sometimes to push the lever down. Adjusted any looser, and the brakes try to self engage.

 

[RegL]

I agree with you regarding how hard it is to disengage. I am at the point that I do not use the parking brake at all, even when trailering. Most of my driving is on level ground so the brake is not necessary.
PJ

Just like the emergency brake in your car, If you never use it, it probably won't work when you do need it. I don't always use it on level ground but always engage it on slopes and while trailering. After 600+ hrs. It seems easier to disengage than when it was new. Could be I just have a better feel for it. One thing I have found is if you don't touch the steering wheel between the time you engage and disengage, it's a lot easier.

 

[toy]

I think this is a big enough problem that I started a new thread.

On the parking brake, my biggest problem is disengaging it, with the second problem getting the lever friction adjusted so that it does not self engage, but it can be manually engaged. I have though about this a little. I would like a spring in each cable so the lever can be moved and then the pins can disengage separately as they are released by turning the wheel. Right now you have to get both pins loose simultaneously. Gee, that sounds good. Then I want a lever that locks the brake handle off. I only use my brakes when trailering because of the difficult to disengage problem.

What issues do others have?

Like others have said , when I set my brakes and want to release it I move the machine to take the weight off the machines brake pins if it has drifted down against the pins that helps to release the brakes. Another thing is the lever is kind of hard on the hand the way it came from the factory to make this a little more user friendly I got a rubber chair tip or crutch tip that fit real snug on the lever then I got another that would fit snugly over that one. That makes the leversofter to the palm of the hand, and thus easier to use.

 

[MossRoad]

I agree with you regarding how hard it is to disengage. I am at the point that I do not use the parking brake at all, even when trailering. Most of my driving is on level ground so the brake is not necessary.
PJ

I used my brake about 20-30 times yesterday. Lots of on-off while cutting firewood with my in-laws out at the property (those hundred small trees that my daughter helped me drag out last spring). When trailering, I put the PT on the trailer and set the brakes. Then I chain the front, remove the brake and drive backwards until it is tight. Set the brake again and put the rear chain on, then release the brake and tighten the rear chain with the load binder. Then, I set the brake again. I figure, if a chain loosens and the unit rolls a bit, one of the pins will engage and keep it from rolling too far. I have seen the PT creep across the trailer on slight slopes when not chained and the brakes off. After about 10 minutes, it was a foot away from where I left it. With my luck, I'd put the unit on the trailer, get distracted before chaining both ends down, and come back to find the PT off the end of the trailer. So, I make it a safety habit to set the parking brake every time I get off the unit, no matter how darn hard or inconvenient it is.

The reason I am adamant about using the parking brake is that I had a good friend's brother in law pinned to a dirt pile by a skid steer that he didn't set the brake on. He died in a helicopter on the way to the hospital. Left a wife and four kids behind because he didn't set the brake with the unit running. It could have been avoided.

So, lets come up with fix for this pesky problem so that the safety device is more convenient to use! I'll try to call the junkyard this week and see how much they want for a parking brake pedal and assembly. If it is not too much, I'll run out and get one and start experimenting.

 

[BobRip]

I think the current setup has springs that hold the pins IN until you pull them out with the lever. That way, should the cable break, the pins will automatically engage. If you put in springs to hold them disengaged and the cable broke, the parking brake would automatically fail, not work. Could be dangerous?

I realize it is frustrating, and I hate the current setup as well. If you make it lose enough to operate comfortably, it won't stay disengaged, and if you tighten it enough to stay disengaged, it is hard to operate. However, I think there are TWO problems with the current parking brake setup.

1. The pin gets stuck due to the pressure of the tractor resting against the pins. That's when you have to drive back and forth and/or wriggle the tractor while pulling on the lever to get the pins to pop out.

2. The lever is hard to operate, even when there is no pressure against the pins being applied by the tractor.

I got to looking at the parking brake setup on my wife's Impala. You step on the pedal once to engage the parking brake and then you step on it again to disengage it. It uses a ratcheting setup and the first time you step on it, it pulls the brake cable. The second time you step on it, it releases the cable. I was thinking about getting one from a junkyard and playing around with it. I think there is enough room to mount it on the left side of the left footwell and not interfere with the left treadle pedal. New cable might have to be purchased for the right pin because this is a longer run, but I think there would be surplus for the left pin. Also, new pulleys may have to be run. Anyway, you could step on it with your left foot the first time to disengage it while driving the tractor back and forth and/or wriggling it with your right foot over or under the right pedal(we've all done that before anyway, so it is no big operator adjustment). Then, just step on it again to engage it and drive forward or back wards until the pins pop into the locked position. Sounds simple enough. I'll have to check it our further... when I have the time, of course!

Moss, I would put a spring in the cable to each pin. I would leave the existing springs alone. When you engage the brake the added spring would stretch until the pin came out. If the cable broke you would still get automatic braking. With the present system neither pin can be pulled until they both come loose. With the springs in the cable, they can disengage separately, hoepfully reducing the difficulty.

I like your idea of the parking brake from a car. You will be able to apply more force that with the short handle. You still might find that adding the cable springs would help. Let me know how it turns out. I will be pursuing my approaches. Let's compare and find the best way.

 

[BobRip]

I used my brake about 20-30 times yesterday. Lots of on-off while cutting firewood with my in-laws out at the property (those hundred small trees that my daughter helped me drag out last spring). When trailering, I put the PT on the trailer and set the brakes. Then I chain the front, remove the brake and drive backwards until it is tight. Set the brake again and put the rear chain on, then release the brake and tighten the rear chain with the load binder. Then, I set the brake again. I figure, if a chain loosens and the unit rolls a bit, one of the pins will engage and keep it from rolling too far. I have seen the PT creep across the trailer on slight slopes when not chained and the brakes off. After about 10 minutes, it was a foot away from where I left it. With my luck, I'd put the unit on the trailer, get distracted before chaining both ends down, and come back to find the PT off the end of the trailer. So, I make it a safety habit to set the parking brake every time I get off the unit, no matter how darn hard or inconvenient it is.

The reason I am adamant about using the parking brake is that I had a good friend's brother in law pinned to a dirt pile by a skid steer that he didn't set the brake on. He died in a helicopter on the way to the hospital. Left a wife and four kids behind because he didn't set the brake with the unit running. It could have been avoided.

So, lets come up with fix for this pesky problem so that the safety device is more convenient to use! I'll try to call the junkyard this week and see how much they want for a parking brake pedal and assembly. If it is not too much, I'll run out and get one and start experimenting.

Great, get her done!

 

[jfh28]

I'd like to see a better set up too. I had the brake cable pull out of the pin which locked the wheels up. Not a difficult fix but a real pain when it happens far away from your tools.

After that I stopped using it. I do have a built-in backup system with the 2425. I drop the backhoe, it's like tossing an anchor. If working on a slope I do advise not dropping it on the up hill side. Don't ask how I know this! Also always wear your seatbelt!!

Jack

 

[tracdoc]

I am so pleased to see this thread developing. I too have had my share of difficulties with my 425's brakes. For one, I can't figure out why, with two separate cables, the brake will not engage unless BOTH pins are able to pass between the cogs/teeth of the wheel gears. I have tried a myriad of adjustments to the cables/springs, but unless both pins can get into the gear tooth interspaces, the brake will not engage.

Since I have reversed my wheels like FOURTEEN, I can readily see from the operator's seat what is going on when I move the brake lever. If one pin has a straight shot at a gear tooth interspace, and the other does not, no braking will occur. If I then jiggle the steering wheel to get the errant gear wheel back in sync, Voila! both pins shoot out to the interspaces and I am locked down. Why won't the pin on one side only travel to its full length if it has a straight shot?? What is it about a "blocked pin" on the other side that holds up the pin on the side with a straight shot to a gear interspace?

I do hope that MR and other thinkers can come up with a fix to this vexing problem. We have recently moved from the relatively flat lands of northern NC to the hilly (did I say 20-35 degree hilly?) territory of southwestern VA, and I need brakes......maybe this is a good excuse to move into a "red" PT with wet brakes....hmmmmmmmm.... or at least consider fitting a wet brake to the 425. Has anyone done/considered this?

 

[MossRoad]

or at least consider fitting a wet brake to the 425. Has anyone done/considered this?

Yes, there have been a few posts regarding swapping out two of the existing wheel motors with two motors with internal brakes. Don't think anyone has done it, though.

As for you problem with pins not engaging until both can, that is odd. I have never had that problem. Have you looked where the two cables go through the pulleys just below the brake handle to see if they are perhaps binding in there?

By the way, I called a few junk yards today. The foot pedal assembly is about $35.00 if I pull it myself at one junk yard and $40.00 if I have them pull it for me at another junk yard. After looking over the setup on my wife's Impala, I think it will be worth more than the $5.00 to have them pull it. I'll see about getting one tomorrow, possibly.

 

[Barryh]

I am so pleased to see this thread developing. I too have had my share of difficulties with my 425's brakes. For one, I can't figure out why, with two separate cables, the brake will not engage unless BOTH pins are able to pass between the cogs/teeth of the wheel gears. I have tried a myriad of adjustments to the cables/springs, but unless both pins can get into the gear tooth interspaces, the brake will not engage.

Since I have reversed my wheels like FOURTEEN, I can readily see from the operator's seat what is going on when I move the brake lever. If one pin has a straight shot at a gear tooth interspace, and the other does not, no braking will occur. If I then jiggle the steering wheel to get the errant gear wheel back in sync, Voila! both pins shoot out to the interspaces and I am locked down. Why won't the pin on one side only travel to its full length if it has a straight shot?? What is it about a "blocked pin" on the other side that holds up the pin on the side with a straight shot to a gear interspace?

I do hope that MR and other thinkers can come up with a fix to this vexing problem. We have recently moved from the relatively flat lands of northern NC to the hilly (did I say 20-35 degree hilly?) territory of southwestern VA, and I need brakes......maybe this is a good excuse to move into a "red" PT with wet brakes....hmmmmmmmm.... or at least consider fitting a wet brake to the 425. Has anyone done/considered this?

Hey Doc, can't wait to see pictures of your new place. If you look at my recent post on this thread, you will see I just went through the adjustment process. For anyone that might be intersted. I had to take the cables out of there holder and readjust.The way I did it was lift the front end, take the front wheels off.

I then pushed the spring loaded pins in one at a time. I then I gently turned the hubs with a set of vise grips just enough to block the pins from popping out. I then positioned the handle about 1/2 inches from the lock down position. Then pulled the cables up through the adjuster evenly and tightened down. Cleaned and sprayed a little lube on the pins.

After that I moved the handle down while watching that the pins did not back off to far as to get caught behind the pin opening. They now engage and disengage evenly. If yours do not, I would think one cable is not even with the other. You might want to eye ball it again. As I stated I'm not sure why they didn't put a little loop washer on the two cables so they would stay even and also not fray. Also they would have to break to engage the brakes and take the adjustment process out of the picture.

This may be the course I take. Make cables with loops for both pins. Using the existing adjuster or by pass it altogether.This way there is no adjustment, an even engage and disengagement. Then a simple second locking device for the brake handle, where I can adjust it less tight. Problem solved.

 

[Barryh]

I am so pleased to see this thread developing. I too have had my share of difficulties with my 425's brakes. For one, I can't figure out why, with two separate cables, the brake will not engage unless BOTH pins are able to pass between the cogs/teeth of the wheel gears. I have tried a myriad of adjustments to the cables/springs, but unless both pins can get into the gear tooth interspaces, the brake will not engage.

Since I have reversed my wheels like FOURTEEN, I can readily see from the operator's seat what is going on when I move the brake lever. If one pin has a straight shot at a gear tooth interspace, and the other does not, no braking will occur. If I then jiggle the steering wheel to get the errant gear wheel back in sync, Voila! both pins shoot out to the interspaces and I am locked down. Why won't the pin on one side only travel to its full length if it has a straight shot?? What is it about a "blocked pin" on the other side that holds up the pin on the side with a straight shot to a gear interspace?

I do hope that MR and other thinkers can come up with a fix to this vexing problem. We have recently moved from the relatively flat lands of northern NC to the hilly (did I say 20-35 degree hilly?) territory of southwestern VA, and I need brakes......maybe this is a good excuse to move into a "red" PT with wet brakes....hmmmmmmmm.... or at least consider fitting a wet brake to the 425. Has anyone done/considered this?

As for why one of your pins won't engage unless both do, just a guess the cables are getting hung up together some where below, and it's using the dual spring tension to activate both?? I did not look below the floor plate, but my guess would be there may pulleys under there the cables ride on. Could be they need oiled or cleaned?? Just a thought.

 

[BobRip]

I decided to build a strawman "dog" to hold the brake handle down. This way I can loosen the friction clutch and the handle will be easy to move. You push the handle down and the dog falls into place to lock the brake off. You push the handle down, push the dog to the left and let the handle go to engage the brake. This is a little awkward and I hope to improve it. I may put a bump on the "pan handle" that hangs below the brake handle. This way when you push the brake handle down the dog is pushed to the left and partially disengaged.

This strawman dog looks awful, but seems to function OK. I made it from a scrap of deck board. I am not sure how well it will sand down. If it does not I will make it from something else. Either oak or metal. Wood seems like the best choice since it is easier to work and more people will copy it. Let's face it, my designs are no good unless they are copied by many others.
The dog is attached to the PT with a wood screw going through the flange above the brake handle. I have attached several pictures.

I have a very poor sketch attached. It does not quite match the dog.

 

[Barryh]

I decided to build a strawman "dog" to hold the brake handle down. This way I can loosen the friction clutch and the handle will be easy to move. You push the handle down and the dog falls into place to lock the brake off. You push the handle down, push the dog to the left and let the handle go to engage the brake. This is a little awkward and I hope to improve it. I may put a bump on the "pan handle" that hangs below the brake handle. This way when you push the brake handle down the dog is pushed to the left and partially disengaged.

This strawman dog looks awful, but seems to function OK. I made it from a scrap of deck board. I am not sure how well it will sand down. If it does not I will make it from something else. Either oak or metal. Wood seems like the best choice since it is easier to work and more people will copy it. Let's face it, my designs are no good unless they are copied by many others.
The dog is attached to the PT with a wood screw going through the flange above the brake handle. I have attached several pictures.

I have a very poor sketch attached. It does not quite match the dog.

That would be the kind of handle locking device that I was describing. Yours looks simple straight forward and effective. Nice job.

 

[Barryh]

I decided to build a strawman "dog" to hold the brake handle down. This way I can loosen the friction clutch and the handle will be easy to move. You push the handle down and the dog falls into place to lock the brake off. You push the handle down, push the dog to the left and let the handle go to engage the brake. This is a little awkward and I hope to improve it. I may put a bump on the "pan handle" that hangs below the brake handle. This way when you push the brake handle down the dog is pushed to the left and partially disengaged.

This strawman dog looks awful, but seems to function OK. I made it from a scrap of deck board. I am not sure how well it will sand down. If it does not I will make it from something else. Either oak or metal. Wood seems like the best choice since it is easier to work and more people will copy it. Let's face it, my designs are no good unless they are copied by many others.
The dog is attached to the PT with a wood screw going through the flange above the brake handle. I have attached several pictures.

I have a very poor sketch attached. It does not quite match the dog.

Good design, If it were me I might also spring load it, on top of the dog to help hold it in place. Just a thought.

 

[BobRip]

The dog is held in place (brake off) by springs of the brakes and the notch in the dog. It falls into lock (brake off) position when you push down on the handle. I need to use it a bunch to see how well it works, then I may modify it (add springs, change shape, etc.) I have only pushed the lever down once or twice and have not driven the PT with it on, yet. Your suggestion is appreciated. I hope others comment as well.
I sanded a piece of the material last night and it sands nicely.

 

[BobRip]

I drove around last night and used the brake about 10 times. It seemed to be much easier to use. I then installed a spring in one of the cables. It was much too weak so I had to remove it. I will try to get a stronger spring today.