Impact and Torque Wrenches

patrickg · Jul 14, 2001

But what about torque wreches? Since changing my dually Ram3500 to 19.5 rims I have carried my own torque wrench. It is amazing how few shops are equipped to torque my lugs to spec, 450 lb-ft. I have to loan most folks my tools to pay them to do something for me. Torque wrench goes to 600 lb-ft and I shamelessly use it instead of a breaker bar to change a trailer towing ball, rotate tires, or whatever gets close to the hernia envelope. It is over three feet long. Came in handy as an impact wrench substitute when changing a rear tractor tire in the field.

I would think that geting a modestly priced (never said cheap) import socket set with 3/4 inch drive, typically come with puny breaker bar, and adding a REAL breaker bar would be great for infrequent jobs that otherwise might be done with an impact wrench and compressor. If something comes up way out in the field I would opt for leverage and portability over sophistication, complication, and cost.

This is not to say that I don't have impact tools and use them, I do and I do. Great stuff but I don't see a HD engine driven (PTO driven?) portable compressor in my future. Maybe some rocket scientist will come up with a solid fuel rocket motor type technology optimized to produce its exhaust gasses in such a way as to permit using it to substitute for an air compressor safely and economically. Should be small, light, most portable, and profitable for the marketing genius/engineering entreprenure to capitalize on the idea. All I want for use of my idea is a large rootbeer float made with A&W rootbeer and real vanilla icecream. That is more than fair.

Patrick

Bird · Jul 15, 2001

Patrick, if you have a long enough breaker bar, and enough room to use it, and always have a way to keep the entire assembly from turning (like trying to loosen mower blade bolts), that should be good enough.

And while a PTO powered compressor might someday come on the market, what my real farmer neighbors do now is have a big 220 volt compressor in their shop, but a portable gasoline compressor they take to the field. Of course, they wouldn't want a PTO powered one because most of the time when they need a compressor in the field, they already have some big implement on the back of the tractor.

Bird

JOR_EL · Jul 15, 2001

PatrickG,

Could you share the make/,model/source/price of your 600# torque wrench with us?

Thanks, /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

Larry

patrickg · Jul 15, 2001

Bird, Wasn't it Archimedes who said SOMETHING LIKE, "Give me a lever long enough and a place to stand and I can bend the lever."? Yeah, tractor is down hard somewhere out in a field so a PTO compressor would only be good for multiple tractor owners, not me. Besides in a big operation a P/U truck would be more economical to dispatch than taking yet another tractor out of service especially if the P/U has an engine driven compressor on it. A bit beyond my scale, I think.

Uh, don't rotary mower/brush hogs have a hole where you can stick a tool in from the top to back up the tool on the bottom? My heavy duty Cimaron does and of course you break wheel lugs loose prior to taking too much weight off wheel with the jack. On occasion I have had to resort to unusual lashups because I didn't have a portable compressor or even a manual hammer struck impact tool available. Sometimes it is just about impossible to get a nut off when it is on a freely moving shaft, especially if the assembly is light weight and has low inertia.

Patrick (takin' the rest of the week off, no more hard work until Monday)

Bird · Jul 15, 2001

don't rotary mower/brush hogs have a hole where you can stick a tool in from the top to back up the tool on the bottom?

Some do; some don't - like my cheap Howse doesn't./w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif However, I can stick one end of my wrecking bar through the U-joint on the drive shaft and that'll hold it. The Bush Hog I had before had something even better than that; a hole in the deck to insert your socket onto the nut.

And I, too, do not think I have any need for a PTO powered compressor./w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif If my little 7 gallon portable tank ain't enough, I have two neighbors who keep portable gasoline powered compressors in their pickups, so I know where I can borrow one anytime. And even better than borrowing one, either of them will just drive his pickup to wherever I need it.

Bird

patrickg · Jul 15, 2001

Larrry, et al,

Torque wrench, 600 lb-ft

make/model/source/price

Import, probably Chinese/600 lb-ft model/Harbour Freight/Don't recall but it was way cheap compared to much lighter duty stuff elsewhere. I did check cal on it and it is plenty good enough for my purposes. Should work fine and last long time if I don't forget to reset it to zero and leave the spring under tension. Ok so I am lazy, but not that lazy, truck is only parked 30 ft away and is in shade (inside shop). Wait here, I'll go look. Besides I have to go by it to get to big reefer full of sodas. Be right back... OK, If I rest it on my foot (don't like to scratch shiny things on cement floor) it comes up to my belly buton. I'm 6'2" (no shoes). Rule IS too far to go get and nothing to eat or drink over that way. Wow, you nearly got naimed in a law suit. when I unwrapped it (I keep it wrapped up cause its shiny) the 3/4 inch drive 1 5/16 impact socket (deep) nearly fell on my toe but missed and didn't chip the floor too much. Tool has ball retainer but the SK socket expects a pin through it and an o-ring around it. Anyway...

I found an inspection sticker that says made in Taiwan. It has two scales lb-ft and m-Kgs in case you have metric specs. English markings cover from 100 to 600 lb-ft, metric 17.3 to 79.6 M-Kgs. Setting is by vernier. It is the click type so while you are popping a blood vessel or a new hemerhoid pulling on it you don't have to try to read a dial. It is 3/4' reversable ratchet drive so is convenient to use in limited space as anything of this size and weight can be. Yes, I did name it. Usually things of beauty, grace, or speed are assumed to be of the feminine gender but this baby is named, for obvious reasons if you saw it pulled out and unwrapped, E X C A L I B E R.

I use it for a ratchet handle as well as a torque wrench and it holds calibration or at least it did (I moved away from easy access to similar tools to try it against). I recommend it if being within 10% is good enough for you (has always been well within 10%) I use it to rotate my P/U tires (19.5 inch Alcoa wheels with 450 lb-ft torque spec).

Attachment is a pic of topic. Note the 19.5's aren't exactly big looking on this truck. I think the 16's looked way small, especially as it is 4x4 and Dodge raises them a tad which makes wheel wells look funny.

Sorry I couldn't be more specific. If you have shopped at Harbor Freight you know why.

Patrick

patrickg · Jul 15, 2001

Larrry, et al,

Torque wrench, 600 lb-ft

make/model/source/price

Import, probably Chinese/600 lb-ft model/Harbour Freight/Don't recall but it was way cheap compared to much lighter duty stuff elsewhere. I did check cal on it and it is plenty good enough for my purposes. Should work fine and last long time if I don't forget to reset it to zero and leave the spring under tension. Ok so I am lazy, but not that lazy, truck is only parked 30 ft away and is in shade (inside shop). Wait here, I'll go look. Besides I have to go by it to get to big reefer full of sodas. Be right back... OK, If I rest it on my foot (don't like to scratch shiny things on cement floor) it comes up to my belly buton. I'm 6'2" (no shoes). Rule IS too far to go get and nothing to eat or drink over that way. Wow, you nearly got naimed in a law suit. when I unwrapped it (I keep it wrapped up cause its shiny) the 3/4 inch drive 1 5/16 impact socket (deep) nearly fell on my toe but missed and didn't chip the floor too much. Tool has ball retainer but the SK socket expects a pin through it and an o-ring around it. Anyway...

I found an inspection sticker that says made in Taiwan. It has two scales lb-ft and m-Kgs in case you have metric specs. English markings cover from 100 to 600 lb-ft, metric 17.3 to 79.6 M-Kgs. Setting is by vernier. It is the click type so while you are popping a blood vessel or a new hemerhoid pulling on it you don't have to try to read a dial. It is 3/4" reversable ratchet drive so is convenient to use in limited space as anything of this size and weight can be. Yes, I did name it. Usually things of beauty, grace, or speed are assumed to be of the feminine gender but this baby is named, for obvious reasons if you saw it pulled out and unwrapped, E X C A L I B E R.

I use it for a ratchet handle as well as a torque wrench and it holds calibration or at least it did (I moved away from easy access to similar tools to try it against). I recommend it if being within 10% is good enough for you (has always been well within 10%) I use it to rotate my P/U tires (19.5 inch Alcoa wheels with 450 lb-ft torque spec).

Attachment is a pic of topic. Note the 19.5's aren't exactly big looking on this truck. I think the 16's looked way small, especially as it is 4x4 and Dodge raises them a tad which makes wheel wells look funny.

Sorry I couldn't be more specific. If you have shopped at Harbor Freight you know why.

Patrick

patrickg · Jul 15, 2001

Yeah Bird, The Cimaron brush hog has about a 3 inch hole in top deck. Turned out it has a use besides watching the blade go by at low RPM. Got a few neighbors like yours, solid gold.

Went to St. Louis yesterday, St Louis, OK that is. Just wanted to see it. Did brief side trip to see Romulus, on way to St. Louis, as a trekie how could I pass it up. For the last few miles my wife and I were saying things like shields up and stand by the weapons array but don't power it up as it could be interpreted as a hostile action and on and on. We debated the merits of cloaking prior to entering the town limits.

Saw a neat sign at outskirts of St. Louis. Welcome to St Louis, population 179 (or whatever it was) 177 regular nice folks, one pyromaniac, and one old sorehead.

Patrick (Yes, there is a town of Remus as well, Roman history buffs)

hayden · Jul 15, 2001

Just get a breaker bar for you socket set and get a block of wood to block the blades while you're losening or tightening the nuts.

I've got a compressor and air tools from 30 years ago when I did professional auto repair and restoration, but I almost never use them now. In the past I used them almost exclusively to save time, and very occationally to get a stubborn bolt lose. Now I just use the breaker for almost everything, including getting mower blades off.

Phred · Jul 16, 2001

Glennmac,

You have got the wrong take on this whole issue.
The key is to convince the boss that you need these tools, therefore, it justifies the cost of the new toys... err tools....
It works best if its her car that needs to be fixed. Then you can explain how you need a new compressor, complete set of 3/4 sockets, torque wrench, etc../w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif

I suspect that I am not alone when I say that the toys.. I mean tools.... are half the fun.

But then again this may just be the engineer talking..

Phred

Edited by Phred on 07/16/01 00:25 AM (server time).

JOR_EL · Jul 16, 2001

Thanks Patrick,

Torque wrench, 600 lb-ft

make/model/source/price 

Good report! Now that I've read it, I think I remember seeing a big torquer in the display case at our local HF. Have to go back and look. 9by the way, ...got a good laugh from your "bending" the classic statement by Archimedes(?)... seems there's always a weak-link, in even the most solid theory. /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif

Bird, are you listening? was at HF looking at compressors; C-H brand 7hp/60gal/10.3 scfm@90psi-11.8@40, 3 yr. limited warranty,...$397.99

The salesman said it was one of their "loss-leaders", and he thought it would be $50-$100 more elsewhere. (At the local Sears, a comparable model, made by Devil. with only a 1yr. warranty WAS $50 more)

If I decide to go for a stationary 220v, model, would you consider this a good buy?

Thanks, /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

Larry

Bird · Jul 16, 2001

Larry, the price sounds very good, but I honestly don't know how good the compressor is or how well it will last. My best guess is that would do just fine for many years.

Bird

patrickg · Jul 16, 2001

Jor_El,

If you like that Archimedes thing I made up and have a minute, maybe you'l like this one:

Given a regular polygon of x sides (at some point this should begin to sound like opening remarks of a calculus lesson dealing with limits) as we vary x, in the limit we can see how the best wheel would be formed. For example: a ten sided figure would thump ten times per rotation, so to improve the wheel we change the number of sides. For example: a three sided wheel would only thump three times per revolution. It is left as an exercise for the student to determine how to build a two or one sided wheel to reduce yet further the number of thumps per revolution.

For those who are a bit foggy in their memory of calculus, the real version A L L W A Y S increases the number of sides so that in the limit as x approaches infinity you get a circle. Just a little (some say very little) math humor that is to a math-theory-lover what fingernails on a blackboard are to a musician. (Hopefully a few folks still remember blackboards - chalkboards)

Do ya spose HF was named that because all their freight comes from a harbor?

By the way, the lugs in prev picture are chromed covers.
The real thing is underneath, 1 5/16 inch torqued to 450 lb-ft

I think the compressor deal sounded OK but can you get repair parts should they be required? If yes go for it, if not then estimate the MTBF and see how that racks up against paying $50 more but having parts availability. Good solidly built compressors can last almost forever but solid as in cast iron is H E A V Y and not suitable for casual movement. I'd hate to save the 13% and regret it a few years later when the value drops to recycle value of the scrap in it if it isn't economical to repair.

Patrick

Patrick

RPM · Jul 16, 2001

Patrick,

Does this look like Excalibur?

3/4'' DRIVE 42'' REACH TORQUE WRENCH

That's a heck of a wrench ... most impressed. My little BX would run and cower in the corner of the garage if you swung that thing anywhere near its nuts.

Patrick

patrickg · Jul 16, 2001

To: Patrick
From: Patrick

Sorry, couldn't help myself. Well du-uh so would I and it wouldn't have to be that close.

Far as I can tell in that picture it sure looks like the same thing. How much these days?

Patrick

patrickg · Jul 16, 2001

Got error messages on last attemp to answer not sure if this is a repeat.

Seems to be the same as Excalibur. Du-uh, I would also get nervous and it wouldn't have to get very close.

When you need someting done at a tire shop and offer to provide the wrench, often they poo poo you until their air tools won't take the lugs off. That is a treat (unspoken told ya so) then the icing on the cake is when you whup out Excalibur and walk up to the (mouth dropped open service advisor/owner/Bozo in charge) with it resting on your shoulder like a battle axe in a Schwartzeneggeer movie.

Patrick

JOR_EL · Jul 16, 2001

PatrickG,

How much these days?

The link shows $179.99

Larry

JOR_EL · Jul 16, 2001

Bird/Patrick.

Good point about repair parts availability, ...have no idea, more checking called-for I guess.

PatrickG It is left as an exercise for the student to determine how to build a two or one sided wheel to reduce yet further the number of thumps per revolution.

LOL /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif reminds me of the old "You can't ever really touch anything" theory, ...(because first your hand must cover half-the-remaining-distance, then half the remaining distance, then half the remaining distance, ad-pukeum, with half of some distance always remaining)

Both problems prove, if anything, that the limits of reality extend beyond the limits of logic! /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

Larry

patrickg · Jul 16, 2001

I don't recall exactly but I think that is a bit up from what I paid in National City or was that Chula Vista, its on the catalog. But I have had it for going on 4 yrs and that isn't much more than I think I paid (like about 160-170)

Patrick (Mine has served well)

patrickg · Jul 16, 2001

Half way there... Yup, called Zeno's paradox. It seems that at a party someone introduced a game to play: all the women were lined up against the wall on one side of the room and all the engineers and mathematicians (only men there except waiters) on the other side. Drinks were served all the way round and the men went half way toward the women. More drinks were served and the men went half the remaining distance toward the women. As the third round was being served the mathematicians looked around at each other and left, en mass. The engineers continued to play. When I got back in town I heard about this and asked a mathematician friend why they left. He said it was an obvious demonstration of Zeno's paradox and that however close they might get they would never get to the women. I asked one of my engineer friends his take on the party. Oh, wow man, had a great time, lotsa booze and fraternizing with the women. I repeated how the mathematician said due to Zeno's paradox you could never actually get there. The engineer looked me in the eye and said that is the philosophical rift between mathematicians and engineers. The mathematicians believed they would never arrive at the "perfect solution" and the engineers think they will get "close enough."

Actually Zeno's paradoz was codified prior to Leibnitz and differential calculus where you are endlessly adding up an infinite number of infintesimally small bits and getting actual values. The half way there thing is easily solved in a system where making an infinite numnber of moves is trivial. Take a bucket with a hole in the bottom fill it up and note that the first half takes x seconds to empty. As water pressure due to height of water column goes down rate of leak slows down and each additional unit of water lost takes longer to flow out. Does this imply that the water quits flowing out before the bucket is empty. A capacitor charged through a resistor has a time dependent voltage rise based on e to the -t/RC power where e is Euler's number (base of natural logs) and R is resistance in Ohms and C is capacitance in Farads and t is time in seconds. I hope I recalled that correctly. The voltage in the capacitor rises asmyptotically approaching the applied voltage. When does it get there? Never because of Zeno's paradox (mathematician's view) or after about 5 time constants it is "close enough" (engineer's view). One time constant is the R times C in seconds. After 5 time constants the voltage has risen to within 1/e of the final value. Since my radios work and my old spark ignition air cooled VW dune buggy works, I'm siding with the engineers. My appologies to any mathematicians on board. Where were you cowards when I needed you to explain the finite thickness track thingie to the INNUMERATE NONBELIEVERS?????

Thanks for the loan of the soap box, I'll be better after they figure out the right medication dossage....

Patrick