IH444 3pt wont lift

[trcsrq]

Hi bimbam,
I am a novice tractor owner learning to take care of my IH444, but I recently ran into the same issue and was wondering if you would be able to tell me more about which spool shifted? Was it one inside the hydraulic control valve? I am somewhat handy and would like to try to fix this issue with my 3pt not lifting on my own. Any advice or hints you could give about what spool you adjusted would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

I got it fixed.
Apparently the over weight situation shifted a spool in the housing that holds the position control unit and would not allow the position control rod to protrude far enuogh out of the housing and the the oil ports could not function. I pressed the spool back into position and put it all back together ,filled it with oil ,started it up and it worked better than before.
Thanks for your help fellas.

 

[bimbam]

trcsrq
I will try to describe to you what to look for. My problem symptoms were that when I moved the position control lever there was no change or movement of anything except for the linkage.
After you take off the seat and remove the top inspection plate you will stand behind the tractor and look at the linkage on the left side. you may have to drain some of the oil to be able to see where the linkage connects to the hydraulic housing towards the front of the inspection area.
The first rod just to the left of the cylinder is the draft control and is operated by the rod protruding out the back of the tractor near the top3rd link of the three point hitch. the next rod to the left is the position control linkage. At the front end of this linkage it contacts the position control valve which protrudes about 1/2 inch into the oil reservoir and is in contact with the position control linkage. When you raise the position control lever it pushes the valve into the hydraulic system allowing oil to move into the cylinder thus raising the lift arms. On the rockshaft which is the large cross shaft with the lift arms, there is a cam that moves the linkage to so that position control valve is allowed to move to the closed position as the lift arms reach the desired height.
What happened to my system was that the position control valve rod was not protruding far enough into the hyd reservoir and was not in contact with the control linkage. Inside the hyd control center the spool bushing had moved forward toward the front of the tractor.
To test yours use a rod or screwdriver and push the control plunger inward . If the hyd system operates with the engine running then the bushing has slipped forward and must be moved back into position with a punch.
You have to drain the system of oil remove all of the likage except the control levers, then remove all of the bolts on the front of the housing and disconnect the hyd lines. On the left side of the main housing is a plate with 3 bolts(2 at the top and 1 at the bottom) behind this plate is a short bushing type tube that has to be removed , usually comes out easy. Pull out the interior unit after removing the push rod from the cylinder(Helps to remove links from the rocker shaft arms to the lift arms so that you can raise the arms easier). Once you have the unit out take it to a clean table an disassemble until you can remove the position plunger rod. Now using a flat punch move the bushing towards the back of the tractor. do this carefully so as not to damage the end of the bushing. Replace O rings
Let me know how it works out.

 

[dieselscout80]

trcsrq
I will try to describe to you what to look for. My problem symptoms were that when I moved the position control lever there was no change or movement of anything except for the linkage.
After you take off the seat and remove the top inspection plate you will stand behind the tractor and look at the linkage on the left side. you may have to drain some of the oil to be able to see where the linkage connects to the hydraulic housing towards the front of the inspection area.
The first rod just to the left of the cylinder is the draft control and is operated by the rod protruding out the back of the tractor near the top3rd link of the three point hitch. the next rod to the left is the position control linkage. At the front end of this linkage it contacts the position control valve which protrudes about 1/2 inch into the oil reservoir and is in contact with the position control linkage. When you raise the position control lever it pushes the valve into the hydraulic system allowing oil to move into the cylinder thus raising the lift arms. On the rockshaft which is the large cross shaft with the lift arms, there is a cam that moves the linkage to so that position control valve is allowed to move to the closed position as the lift arms reach the desired height.
What happened to my system was that the position control valve rod was not protruding far enough into the hyd reservoir and was not in contact with the control linkage. Inside the hyd control center the spool bushing had moved forward toward the front of the tractor.
To test yours use a rod or screwdriver and push the control plunger inward . If the hyd system operates with the engine running then the bushing has slipped forward and must be moved back into position with a punch.
You have to drain the system of oil remove all of the likage except the control levers, then remove all of the bolts on the front of the housing and disconnect the hyd lines. On the left side of the main housing is a plate with 3 bolts(2 at the top and 1 at the bottom) behind this plate is a short bushing type tube that has to be removed , usually comes out easy. Pull out the interior unit after removing the push rod from the cylinder(Helps to remove links from the rocker shaft arms to the lift arms so that you can raise the arms easier). Once you have the unit out take it to a clean table an disassemble until you can remove the position plunger rod. Now using a flat punch move the bushing towards the back of the tractor. do this carefully so as not to damage the end of the bushing. Replace O rings
Let me know how it works out.

Can you post which numbers from this PDF or picture that equal the parts that you are refereing to in your text?
View attachment HYDRAULIC SYSTEM, CONTROL VALVE, TRACTORS WITH HYDRAULIC LIFT.pdf

 

[bimbam]

looks like 55 and the similar but longer part in 54.

 

[trcsrq]

looks like 55 and the similar but longer part in 54.

bimbam,
Thank you for your detailed description. I am so glad to have found this forum. I will try what you have said and appreciate you taking the time to respond to my question. I will post on here whether that fixes it or not.

I read in the manual that there should be 3 gallons of hydraulic fluid. I have about 2" of fluid if I stick a metal rod in the back hydraulic filler (behind the seat). I think there is about 3-4" of air from the bottom to the hydraulic fill bolt. I am wondering if maybe it is just low on hydraulic fluid. Does anyone know approximately how much air space there should be?

 

[bimbam]

If you have power steering and it works ok then you have enough oil.
before you dismantle everything try closing the isolation valve , located on the right side in front of the seat , with the engine running raise the lift lever. if everything is working ok the engine should lug down. If not then you have the linkage problem as previously described or the relief valve located next to the position control valve is stuck open.
hope this helps

 

[trcsrq]

Hi bimbam,
I did what you mentioned regarding closing the isolation valve then tried to raise and lower the lift lever. The engine didn't really do anything. I am thinking I am going to have to dismantle everything as you have described. My manual shows the relief valve in between the hydraulic pump and the seat (small box below the steering column and gas tank). Is this the valve you are referring to (see rough image for area I am talking about)?

I am trying to avoid having to take apart below the seat. I had about 2.5" of hydraulic fluid below the seat so I filled it up to around 3.5 - 4" of fluid just to be safe and make sure it was above the large filter below the seat then tried moving the steering wheel and the lift level but there was no change.

A few things I should mention - there is a whining sound coming from the front side of the tractor near where the pump is located. It also feels as if the line between the control valve and the pump has pressure but the one between the seat and the control valve doesn't. Please see my attached image (rough sketch showing locations).

Thank you

 

[bimbam]

trcsrq
sorry to respond so slow. Not near a computer for a while. The control valve you are referring to is the POWER STEERING FLOW DIVIDER. If your steering is working and you can turn the wheel with one finger the relief valve is probably OK. If not, and you have the noise you referred to you may have problems in this divider .it can be taken apart and cleaned but be sure you replace everything the way it came apart. located in this divider is the relief valve for the steering and the FLOW DIVIDER SPOOL. If it is stuck open you wont get oil to the lift. The noise sounds like air in the system. You may have an air leak in the suction line but more likely it happened when your oil level was low.
In your picture the green hose is the suction and wont have pressure. The red hose is the pressure side of the pump and and will always be stiff because of the type of hose. At the south end of the suction hoes where it enters the housing is a small bolt and clip which holds the screen filter inside. Drain housing before removing. TIP> To drain the housing get a 3/4 inch threaded hose bib with a hose attached and a 5 gallon bucket. when you pull the drain plug screw the hose bib and hose in and let it drain. will take awhile but less messy. also remove fill plug to vent the tank.

 

[bimbam]

trcsrq
The relief valve I was referring to previously is the one shown as #66 in the diagram provided by DIESELSCOUT 80 above.

 

[trcsrq]

trcsrq
The relief valve I was referring to previously is the one shown as #66 in the diagram provided by DIESELSCOUT 80 above.

Good to know. I actually removed the relief valve below the gas tank since that was the only one I saw referred to in the manual. That was fun - had to remove all of the pressure lines and gas tank to get to it out for cleaning (40+ years of being rusted to one spot). Cleaned that out and made sure the spring and piston inside that box moved freely. Glad I did it though because the spring inside there was a bit compressed (almost stuck together in certain areas). It broke free once removed then cleaned it up and put it all back together.

I also removed the small filter below the seat and checked that it was clean. The large hydraulic filter was also clean. The pin you were referring if standing behind the tractor looking inside the removable lid below the seat worked fine. Both the draft and the lift pins worked and moved in and out of the front plate when moving the levers on the side of the seat.

After I checked and saw that those two rods/pins were moving like they should when the levers were moved I figured it may have been something else wrong. I just got your reply about Part #66 and am thinking that the issue may be in the area you are describing.

One thing I am going to try is disconnecting the pressurized line below the seat with the hydraulics running to make sure I get oil spraying out and also to make sure no air is in the system. I had to refill the fluids after draining and checking all of the filters and looking for the rods/pins you were referring to right below the seat (could not see them with all of the fluid in the tank.

The power steering works perfectly fine so I know the hydraulic pump is good. I will keep trying and let you know what I find. Thank you for the information on the other relief valve below the seat area. I have been saving trying to take that front plate off until it is a last resort but I may be getting closer to the day when I have to do that.

Thanks again.