IH B414 alternator converted..need info

[canucklehead]

My 1962 IH B414 GAS was converted to an alternator, but there are no wires to the battery. There is a wire that comes off one terminal of the alternator and it is badly frayed, light gauge, and broken. I was told by a friend that that wire should go to my positive battery terminal, but it is way too small.

I also have a small little square electrical device mounted on the side of the alternator. It is about 2" x 2" and about .25-.5" thick. Almost looks like an electronic ignition module, but i'm not positive what it is. It has a few wires aswell, one of which is broken. So my new battery does not charge.

Another friend told me I should have a voltage regulator to go with an alternator so that if it overcharges, it can discharge excess voltage and not cook my battery. Is that what the small device might be?? I thought a voltage regulator usually had a cooling fin look.

My old generator wires all seem to be just hanging there. I'll try to get some pics and post them, as seeing it may be a lot easier to understand.

I just want my battery to charge!
thanks

 

[mlauk]

If you are using a one-wire delco alternator, this link will show you how to hook it up.

Yesterday's Tractors - Discussion Forum

 

[Transit]

Ok canucklehead, simple answer. The 2 x 2 box is the voltage regular. As for the frayed wire, it is most likely the output from the alternator. I would use a volt meter with the black probe connected to tractor ground and test with the red probe for voltages in the range of 12.5 to 14.5.
If the alternator is not connected to the battery, how is it kept charged?
Are there any cables connected to the battery posts?
Where does the power come from to start the engine?
Where does the power come for lights?

 

[Soundguy]

why don't you save us some guess work and post pics of your alt, and any names / numbers on it. the possibilities are ENDLESS as to what make it is right now.. and any advice is super generic till we determine what alt you have..

soudnguy

 

[Treemonkey1000]

I like Soundguys answer the best. That may save 12 pages of postings on this.

 

[Eagleview]

Without seeing said pics , I would say the light gauge wire is the exciter wire that usually goes to the ignition switch with a low wattage bulb in series ie an alternator light . There will be a threaded stud , insulated with a Bakelite washer coming out the back of the alternator that is the battery charge wire terminal .

 

[canucklehead]

thanks guys, I didn't realize there were so many options. I'll take some pics soon and post. It's at my neighbours right now as we're fitting a backhoe onto it. So it'll be a couple of days. You'll LOVE the homemade backhoe my neighbour fabricated.

pretty much this thing sucks juice from battery to start, and battery gets drawn down until I manually re-charge it. I don't think my lights work.

 

[canucklehead]

it's been awhile...let's see if i can figure out this photo hosting thng again... AND, I threw in 2 pics of my new backhoe attachment.

 

[sjb]

The white wire going to the stud is the output of your alternator. It looks a little small, but that is probably not what is keeping the battery from charging. It needs to have a path to the battery. It can connect to the heavy battery cable at the starter. If you have an ammeter it should connect to it.

As some previously stated, the block mounted on the alternator, is your voltage regulator. The broken wire is probably what is causing your problem.

Can you post a picture showing the broken wire?

Also are there any markings on the voltage regulator. Typically, you will have a terminal marked "F" that connects to the field terminal on the alternator( one of the wires in the square plug at the back of the alternator), A terminal marked "A" that goes to the battery( from the picture it looks like it might be hooked to the output terminal of the alternator this will work, but it would be better yo go to the battery), and a terminal marked "S" that needs to go to the ignition switch.


Stan

 

[canucklehead]

thanks Stan. YES, the white wire is too light duty and it is broken. I know that one should go to the + batt terminal. There is also a faded red or orange wire that should go from the regulator to the alternator (i think) that is also frayed and broken, and then there is a plug hanging off, that seems to connect to nothing. I don't recall any ignition wires.

Is it possible for any of you to PM me with email addresses and I can send the smae pics, but better? These got shrunk down and took away detail. I think email might turn out a bit bigger/better.

THANKS ALL!!

Whaddya think of my neighbour's homemade backhoe? he built that from scratch!!

Sorry in advance if I'm slow to reply, as I have to leave for a week, and then I'll try to re-check then.

 

[Soundguy]

would never have guessed it was scratch bilt.

soundguy

 

[mitch becton]

the alternator you have there is called 10dn delco this was the pre 10si delco alternator. these units were all externally regulated new. if you can find a alternator rebuilder in you area call them and tell them you need transpo part number d713l this was designed to take the 10dn from ext regulated to internal per say it bolts on and has the plug that goes directly to the back of your alternator for hook up it has three wires that have to be hooked very simply positive negative and one the runs a light if need be. if by some chance you cant get one there just post that i will put in touch with a company there that can supply.


good luck

mitch becton

 

[Soundguy]

or just get a reg for a 10dn.. they are common and cheap.

soundguy

 

[canucklehead]

thank you very much for all the excellent info. I'm about to re-connect everything and have a few more Qs.

I see the red wire from the regulator goes to the same terminal on the ALT, that also connects the ALT to the POS battery terminal. I'm going to solder and fix those wires.

There is an orange wire from the reg. that is just dead ended on a plug, hanging there, connected to nothing. Is this an auxillary for lights?

So I noticed the POS wires, both from the reg. and ALT were badly frayed and close to the boom and other metal. Possibly these wires have touched the boom or other grounding type metal. Would that damage either the reg. or ALT?

I want to re-connect everything and see if it works. Can I test this with my volt meter to see if it's charging properly, or overcharging? How would i check this and what am I looking for? I don't want to fry my battery or alternator, or regulator.

Should I just connect a new regulator and not take a chance? Where can i buy this regulator?

LAST... what gauge of wire should I run from ALT to POS battery terminal?

THANK YOU!!!!!!!!

actually Mitch, as I re-read your post, that regulator description is exactly how my present regulator connects to the ALT. Do I have the D713L?

 

[Soundguy]

check bat volts before and then after start.

12.6 before and 13.8-14.7 at high throttle after starting.

soundguy

 

[canucklehead]

I checked the pre-alternator voltage and it was 12.89 V, and I had I just fully charged the battery.

when I hooked up alternator and regulator, my digital meter was flutuacting wildly and I couldn't read a constant or steady number.

 

[Treemonkey1000]

I checked the pre-alternator voltage and it was 12.89 V, and I had I just fully charged the battery.

when I hooked up alternator and regulator, my digital meter was flutuacting wildly and I couldn't read a constant or steady number.

Put your meter on AC volts to see what it does. Either your meter might not be high quality shielding or the Alternator might have issues still.
If you get a constant AC voltage reading across the battery I would consider the alternator might have an open diode or the voltage regulator depending on what type it is might be acting up.

 

[mitch becton]

what the d713l allows you to do is make your alternator the 10dn delco internally regulated which is somewhat better than the old points type that would have been o/e on the tractor. this system has been used in the rebuild business for well over 20 years as for you checking the output it should be constant with all things hooked up and all internals working properly also is your regulator used or new if you are re-using your old one try this leave the regulator off then check the out put is should be probably about 14.5 to 15.5 or more voltage at this point your are checking the output of alternator with no regulation at all it will go to what is called full field and should be constant if this is correct then get another regulator or look at possbly the rectifier which is also ready available part number 31-100.

mitch

 

[Soundguy]

I checked the pre-alternator voltage and it was 12.89 V, and I had I just fully charged the battery.

when I hooked up alternator and regulator, my digital meter was flutuacting wildly and I couldn't read a constant or steady number.

that's odd.. the battery should even out the voltage to an average.. even for a cheap meter.

if it was a genny with a comutator I can understand due to emi/rfi.. but an alternator.. even an old one should not mess with meter much.. unless it is a really cheap consumer grade auto ranger.

did you make the checks at the battery, with al hooke dup and at a steady rpm?

soundguy

 

[canucklehead]

I did check with it running, seemed to be an idle speed, and engine seemed constant, not lobing.

OEM was a gennie, and this was converted to ALT.

We don't have Harbor Freight, we have Princess Auto...which is very similar...really cheap crap from China. So my digital meter was on sale there for $7. I'm guessing mediocre quality at best. It reads AC & DC voltage okay, plus resistance/continuity. I don't use it for much else.

And sincerely..THANK YOU very much for sticking with me through this guys. I'll try disconnecting the power wire on the regulator and see what happens.