IF You are a Tractor Operator in your ROOKIE Season.

[Gordon Gould]

I wonder if new tractor owners appreciate the huge increase in the safety margin that you gain by running loaded rear tires. Especially doing loader work. They do not replace the need for rear ballast but they do help keep your rear wheels on the ground in a big way and move your center of gravity down and back. While there may be some valid reasons not to want loaded tires, like keeping the lawn tidy, I would not have a tractor with a FEL unless I had loaded rear tires because of the increased function and safety.

gg

 

[AxleHub]

And your situation had 4 issues all combined.

1. Sure . . Ballast addition on the 3ph would help.

2. Soft ground . . . to me this is a biggee because it changes as you are on it . . A virtual crushing of your safety angle. The slope looks manageable and that soft ground is like a tire losing air.

3. Slope. You were smart to have had your bucket low . . . even smarter to.have been going slow. The bucket saved you . . going slow and quick reactions allowed it to protect you (in scary . . Pucker kinda way). Had you been going faster . . having it low could have been a carteheel effect.

4. Sidehill. That really makes it a show stopper. Ballast on the rear helps for slope . . but sidehill is a different story . . and combined with #2 soft ground makes it exponential.

At this point . . I'd like to ask for input from readers regarding the narrow miss jix had.

I think this is a very good example to use.

A. He had a light backend . . so obviously adding some weight low on the rear is needed. But his situation is far more complex than just ballast.

B. Maybe backing down the slope helps some . . but sidehill and soft ground combined make backing down the slope very treacherous . . As there is nothing the driver can do to react or "catch himself". Not to mention visibility and reaction time in reverse are very hard.

C. I'd like to see others opinions . . because I see this as an impossible scenario to be safe. It seems to me at least 2 of the 5 variables needs to be eliminated or altered.

My opinion is to reduce the amount in the bucket and then . . Come at the destination in a different way. You can't eliminate the slope but you could wait for the ground to firm up or come at an angle that altered sidehill effect . . Or possibly find a round about way to come up instead of down on the slope.

My point is . . can readers offer ideas how this potential accident could be avoided? (And I don't consider "ballast" as anywhere near a full solution) .

 

[k0ua]

At this point . . I'd like to ask for input from readers regarding the narrow miss jix had.

I think this is a very good example to use.

A. He had a light backend . . so obviously adding some weight low on the rear is needed. But his situation is far more complex than just ballast.

B. Maybe backing down the slope helps some . . but sidehill and soft ground combined make backing down the slope very treacherous . . As there is nothing the driver can do to react or "catch himself". Not to mention visibility and reaction time in reverse are very hard.

C. I'd like to see others opinions . . because I see this as an impossible scenario to be safe. It seems to me at least 2 of the 5 variables needs to be eliminated or altered.

My opinion is to reduce the amount in the bucket and then . . Come at the destination in a different way. You can't eliminate the slope but you could wait for the ground to firm up or come at an angle that altered sidehill effect . . Or possibly find a round about way to come up instead of down on the slope.

My point is . . can readers offer ideas how this potential accident could be avoided? (And I don't consider "ballast" as anywhere near a full solution) .

It is difficult to speculate without seeing the situation. But, he needed ballast, and going down rear end first would have made a lot of difference. I know I have done it both ways, Moving tons of heavy stone going down both frontwise and rear first.. with too light of ballast on the 3pt. My experience was in a similiar sized tractor a Kubota B7500 with only a light scrape blade on the 3pt. No loaded tires either. Yes I was dumber at one time.. I learned a few things along the way. Operating down here in the hills in Branson was a whole "nuther experience" than the 10 years of operating time I had before I came here on much flatter ground.

 

[AxleHub]

It is difficult to speculate without seeing the situation. But, he needed ballast, and going down rear end first would have made a lot of difference. I know I have done it both ways, Moving tons of heavy stone going down both frontwise and rear first.. with too light of ballast on the 3pt. My experience was in a similiar sized tractor a Kubota B7500 with only a light scrape blade on the 3pt. No loaded tires either. Yes I was dumber at one time.. I learned a few things along the way. Operating down here in the hills in Branson was a whole "nuther experience" than the 10 years of operating time I had before I came here on much flatter ground.

K0ua, obviously ballast and slope with a loaded bucket is one issue. However I don't see how soft ground and sidehill get resolved in any way by ballast and backing down the hill.

My concern is that jix just backing down and having more rear ballast would have been in as bad or a worse spot than he was because he could not have saved himself as he did as a last resort.

What I'm concerned about is . . . it seems the combination of issues could happen to many others . . and yet I'm not clear that with the combination . . it can be done without eliminating or altering at least 2 or even 3 of the 5 conditions. Ballast helps 1 of the 5 (rear wheels off the ground) . . And backing down may help for that same 1st item but it seems to make it worse for at least 2 of the other items (sidehill and soft ground on the slope/sidehill).

 

[k0ua]

K0ua, obviously ballast and slope with a loaded bucket is one issue. However I don't see how soft ground and sidehill get resolved in any way by ballast and backing down the hill.

My concern is that jix just backing down and having more rear ballast would have been in as bad or a worse spot than he was because he could not have saved himself as he did as a last resort.

What I'm concerned about is . . . it seems the combination of issues could happen to many others . . and yet I'm not clear that with the combination . . it can be done without eliminating or altering at least 2 or even 3 of the 5 conditions. Ballast helps 1 of the 5 (rear wheels off the ground) . . And backing down may help for that same 1st item but it seems to make it worse for at least 2 of the other items (sidehill and soft ground on the slope/sidehill).

Well.. give it a try both ways.. I have.. I know you don't believe going down backwards is better,, but it is.. And the main reason it is better is because the rear axle is solid. It does not pivot, And when you are light in the rear end by going down forwards, you are riding on an axle that pivots on the sidehill. This causes the entire tractor to start to tip over. You have got to keep that rear end planted on the ground. Going down backwards, even when he did not have anything on the 3pt would have solved his problem as the weight transfer by going down backwards would have shifted overall weight to the solid rear end.

 

[jix]

Yep< axelrod... It sure scared me... I learned a lot there.; ..compound slopes = No, No. Ditto forward descent. I was dumb lucky, is all. Getting a rear ballast box tooty sweety now.

Best solution is one that I employed afterwards..Go another way around the slope...Slopes are BAHHHD! Especially on a scut with a 59" wide stance.. tires aint steel.

 

[jix]

Yep, sure Pritchard, but got no photo, sorry. To snaffle a tow line simply means to tie something to it with enuff slack to catch it up if it breaks. IE an old tire on 6 feet of rope..or a lotta canvas. it just dampens out the recoil of the breaking tow line.. that help ?

jix

 

[jix]

I need to say that, in retrospect, there was no way to carry a buckert full of dirt down that slope with total safety... nope, NONE. I went around another way, on level ground ( with the bucket as low as possible.

Op is correct.. compound slope plus soft ground..it was a death trap, rear ballast or none. Thje onhly thing that saved me was that I was going dead slow..and had time to completely drop the bucket down the ground. Backing backup made me pucker too, by the way. I should have dumped the bucket first, galdarn it.

jix

 

[jix]

To all posters.... Yup, yup, yup and Yup. Lotta mistakes covered in this incident. I will not make any of them again.. Now I gotta go get my rabbits foot and put it on my tractor keychain, guys.

AND OH YAH>>I WAS COLD SOBER AT THIS TIME... but that was just more luck too.

 

[k0ua]

To all posters.... Yup, yup, yup and Yup. Lotta mistakes covered in this incident. I will not make any of them again.. Now I gotta go get my rabbits foot and put it on my tractor keychain, guys.

AND OH YAH>>I WAS COLD SOBER AT THIS TIME... but that was just more luck too.

If you weren't cold sober when you started down, I bet you were by the time you were out of danger.. Sober and "puckered"