I give up Jinma, am I right?

[Anonymous Poster]

I decided to buy a Jinma 284, but after read follows, I changed my mind.

Thinking about a Chinese Tractor, but concerned about all the horror stories you have heard! Chang Zhou Avenger (Dongfeng) series is the answer. Here is why...

Changzhou is a division of DongFeng Agricultural Machine [DFAM]. Dongfeng is China's premier tractor brand. Changzhou has seen the problems that Jinma has had with the tractors they export to America, and decided not to repeat their mistakes. Changzhou realized that Americans use their tractors differently than the Chinese, and that the bandaid approach of Jinma does not work to provide a reliable tractor in America and this, in addition to the lack of parts support, is the reason Chinese tractors have a poor reputation in America.

The basic reason for the reliablity problems with Jinma and other Chinese brands has been that they all start with a small 2 cylinder tractor and add features, larger tires and larger engines to satisfy the American importer. They do not design a new tractor, but patch the old one.

Consider the JM254/284 tractor as an example. It started out life as a 18 hp tractor with 5x12" front tires, 8.2x20" rear tires and a 0.92 liter engine. Now this same tractor has 6.5x16 front tires, 9.5x24 rear tires, and a 1.5 liter engine. The hydraulic system was designed for 3.6 gpm pump and now it is suppose to handle one 8 gpm and one 3.6 gpm pump. The transmission has not been changed to handle the additional torque nor has the clutch. Other than hanging more and larger parts onto the base 18 hp tractor, not much has changed. It is no wonder Jinma's have problems.

Now consider the Changzhou Dognfeng approach. First they start with a 30hp frame for the 254 and a 38hp frame for the 354 model. They use a clutch and transmission sized for a 40 HP tractor on both models. The base engines are 1.8 liter 28/30 hp and 2.2 liter 38/40 hp. They then set the engine governor at 2400 rpm, which reduces HP rating, but maintains the torque of the larger engine. They install the largest strongest front axle available since they know most tractors will be used with a front end loader and they use hardened bolts in all frame connections for the same reason. Then there is the hydraulic system. The tractors were designed for power steering, so the hydraulic steering ram is behind the front axle where it belongs and the fluid capacity is large enough handle a front end loader and a backhoe without fluid shortage or the overflows that are common with the Jinma and of course the Changzhou tractors have two hydraulic pumps.

Dongfeng is the tractor for the 21st century. Everything you need, nothing you don't.

 

[WOODYTREE]

ARE YOU A DEALER FOR THIS TRACTOR??????? CAN YOU SEND ME MORE INFO ON THEM?????? I HAVE BEEN THINKING ABOUT BUYING A JINMA MYSELF......
THANK YOU WOODY

 

[rbeitz]

So did you buy the DF or are you just a marketing rep for them????

Having never seen the Jinma or the DF in person I can't comment on the quality or the durability. But from the information I have read about them they both seem to be quite capable. I seriously considered buying a Jinma a few months ago before I found my Yanmar. I was deterred by the delivery time and the fact that I couldn't find one close enough to me to actually see one up close.

 

[PitbullMidwest]

The info you posted was taken, I believe, from the TaskMaster web site of the DFTractor web site. China American Imports, TaskMaster and Tractors, Etc. are all the same company and sold Jinmas for quite a few years but recently (within the last year or so) started selling DongFeng because they were given a national exclusive to market, set up dealerships and sell this tractor. The information may be accurate as far as the Jinma history but the conclusion that they are unreliable doesn't seem to follow the success that Jinma owners on this board or others are reporting. Also, if this is true then they are confessing that the Jinmas they sold for years are unreliable.

Jinma will not award an exclusive to any importer. They believe in selling both sides of the street and this is actually good for Jinma owners as it makes parts easier to acquire and keeps the prices down. There is talk that one large importer is pressuring the factory not to support small importers or those who sell unassembled units. They have already been given an exclusive on all green units and were successful in having online pricing for unassembled units removed from a competitors website so that these cut rate prices could not be used when negotating prices at their dealerships.

Both Jinma and Dongfeng are good bargins, it is unfortunate that DF choses to point out Jinmas preceived negitives instead of playing up their own product.

 

[EFC]

<font color=red> "Chang Zhou Avenger (Dongfeng) series is the answer. Here is why..."</font color=red>

Avengers are <font color=red>NOT</font color=red> a Dong Feng (DF). Avengers are made by DFAM which also makes Taskmaster and Dong Feng. They are not the same tractors. I know this because I have seen all three and am the distributor for DF in the Northwest. DF builds a great tractor and seems willing to become a more mainstream product. I don’t think that should discourage anybody from buying a Jinma. DF won’t sell tractors in crates to end users. So if you want a crate tractor then Jinma is the king.

 

[JohnS]

All the Chinese tractors I have seen appear to be evolutionary designs. They started from some base tractor that was primaraly sold in China(originally copied from some where else), and keep making changes for the american market. I think it will be many years before we see a brand new, from the ground up design from china. It is more likely that they would purchase a Korean or Japanese design over designing a new tractor. Many of the Chinese brands have been improving for the US market. I've seen some pixs of some new models that will be introduced in the next year. There will certainly be many more choices in the entry level tractor market. That is good for everyone. The good news appears that the chinese are listening and making the changes.

The Jinma 284 is basicly a 254, it shouldn't be rounded up and compared to 30hp machines. The Jinma 304/354 is a larger framed machine. I haven't touched a DF yet, but maybe soon. I wouldn't make the kind of statements/conclusions I see here. It sounds like focusing on a perceived weakness vs an actual weakness. i.e marketing hype like when Ford/Chevy/Mopar claims their particular model has more trunk space/head room/ etc then a mercedaes/BMW/Porshe. When I touch a DF254, I will comment on and contrast the tractors. From others I have talked with that have touched both, they are very similar machines. Like the the Jinma 304/354 they need a litttle more refinement. Most of the issues with the chinese tractors have been fluid leaks and electrical items. Size doesn't seem to matter with this.

Good luck with your new DF. Post some pixs when you get a chance,

 

[DrewW]

Can I just point out that Jinma export their tractors to over 60 countries worldwide so are not only aimed at the American market. Just for those who didnt realise that

 

[MikeStuart]

Actually, DongFeng and Avenger are both products of the Changzhou tractor plant. The Avenger is an "economy" version of the DF. The old Changzhou website used to show the Avenger style and the DF style, but that old site is no longer up. There is a listing type site at http://www.js.cei.gov.cn/jsmeio98/0400007/ecztljcq.htm
but it just shows the old model.

As far as JM and their chassis, its true that the 160-204 have the same chassis. THe 254/284's design is based on the smaller chassis, but there are many parts that are larger than on the smaller versions, The JM304/354 is a totally different and larger chassis than the others.

Chinese quality ratings have more to do with beauracracy than actual "ratings". Each province and economic zone has its own rating award. That's why every Chinese tractor is the "worldbest" or "medal-winner" or "superior product".

CAM is a new national rating to replace all of the old regional ratings. Most Chinese tractor factories that export to the US and Europe will CAM within a few years. To get CAM, you basicly surrender all of your old awards in exchange for CAM. You do have to meet basic ISO-type stuff to get CAM. Most Chinese tractor factories that export are ISO-certified so they'll have CAM after they get through applying.

 

[Robert Blows]

I decided to buy a Jinma 284, but after read follows, I changed my mind.

Thinking about a Chinese Tractor, but concerned about all the horror stories you have heard! Chang Zhou Avenger (Dongfeng) series is the answer. Here is why...

Changzhou is a division of DongFeng Agricultural Machine [DFAM]. Dongfeng is China's premier tractor brand. Changzhou has seen the problems that Jinma has had with the tractors they export to America, and decided not to repeat their mistakes. Changzhou realized that Americans use their tractors differently than the Chinese, and that the bandaid approach of Jinma does not work to provide a reliable tractor in America and this, in addition to the lack of parts support, is the reason Chinese tractors have a poor reputation in America.

The basic reason for the reliablity problems with Jinma and other Chinese brands has been that they all start with a small 2 cylinder tractor and add features, larger tires and larger engines to satisfy the American importer. They do not design a new tractor, but patch the old one.

Consider the JM254/284 tractor as an example. It started out life as a 18 hp tractor with 5x12" front tires, 8.2x20" rear tires and a 0.92 liter engine. Now this same tractor has 6.5x16 front tires, 9.5x24 rear tires, and a 1.5 liter engine. The hydraulic system was designed for 3.6 gpm pump and now it is suppose to handle one 8 gpm and one 3.6 gpm pump. The transmission has not been changed to handle the additional torque nor has the clutch. Other than hanging more and larger parts onto the base 18 hp tractor, not much has changed. It is no wonder Jinma's have problems.

Now consider the Changzhou Dognfeng approach. First they start with a 30hp frame for the 254 and a 38hp frame for the 354 model. They use a clutch and transmission sized for a 40 HP tractor on both models. The base engines are 1.8 liter 28/30 hp and 2.2 liter 38/40 hp. They then set the engine governor at 2400 rpm, which reduces HP rating, but maintains the torque of the larger engine. They install the largest strongest front axle available since they know most tractors will be used with a front end loader and they use hardened bolts in all frame connections for the same reason. Then there is the hydraulic system. The tractors were designed for power steering, so the hydraulic steering ram is behind the front axle where it belongs and the fluid capacity is large enough handle a front end loader and a backhoe without fluid shortage or the overflows that are common with the Jinma and of course the Changzhou tractors have two hydraulic pumps.

Dongfeng is the tractor for the 21st century. Everything you need, nothing you don't.

What a load of twaddle ... ... whoever wrote the above is very biased, and has little knowledge of the overall Chinese tractor manufacturing industry.
Changzhou is the city where Dongfeng make their tractors ( DF ) and not the brand.
This harps of some chinese boy wanting to express their english talents, to impress their workmates.
DF is a good little tractor in 254 / 284 and 354 form, but does not have a better record than Jinma or any of the other tractor brands produced in China.
Sure Jinma needs to be more proactive with parts supply in the USA, but does not have a problem in most countries, because tractor mporters are usually also the parts suppliers.
DF has a significantly smaller distribution network, and as such, also has far fewer parts suppliers, and no national parts centre.
But neither do any of the other chinese manufacturers.
Best small Chinese tractor, may now, possibly be the new upgraded Foton tractors ... they have put a lot of work into their new models, but have also increased their prices,
There is a choice of at least 10 Chinese tractor brands that buyers can consider ... but to say that DF is best is plainly only in the mind of that writer.
All Chinese tractors have one thing in common, and that is the manufacturing standards are not quite as good as Japan / Korea, or the USA, but they are significantly cheaper.
They can be made to last a long time, bu running them from new for about one hour, then changing engine and hydraulic oils and filters ... it will get rid of 90% of the manufacturing impediments, and then stick to your factory oil change intervals.
Only use good quality oils, and check the gear oil levels in the front axel and gearbox ... make sure all grease points are also serviced, and use over strength inhibitor and antifreeze in your radiator.
Just go over everything on a regular basis, and check all nuts and bolts are still reasonably tight, and they will last.... I am from New Zealand and have sold Jinmas, that have now run up 5000 plus hours, and the engines are still good ... Fotons now are much better than their early models, and YTO tractors 70Hp to 90Hp that are great and reliable workers .... A little experience with Jiangliang now Mahindra, and they have been a bit more mechanically sophisticated, but also more fragile, so are not on my recommended list ... and repaired DFs.
Remember that many of these tractors brands make their own castings/ axels / gearboxes, but use the same engine suppliers.
And also remember ... do not ride the clutch, because these are generally manually set, and not set up on a machine, so the finger pressure settings are not always even ... If you get the slightest feeling of clutch slip, stop using the tractor, and get the clutch adjusted, or you will undoubtably have to have it replaced, soon after.
Regards Robert ... International Machinery Ltd ... NZ and China

 

[Heywood Jannockitov]

Yeah, but it's twaddle from over 9 years ago!

 

[Robert Blows]

Yeah, but it's twaddle from over 9 years ago!

Thanks... I think I just got up too early this morning. ... maybe a coffee is required, to get me back on my desired mellow path.

 

[Heywood Jannockitov]

Oh, and welcome to the forum!

 

[Localmotion]

In my experience most of the design features on all the Chinese brands are very similar - they may be evolutionary, but so are John Deere, Case etc...

Here and now it is true that Chinese tractors lack some of the refinement and quality control of those produced in many other countries... but they are catching up quickly and the Yancheng factory which makes Jinma are (I would argue) leading the way, mainly due the large amount of feedback they get from their worldwide customer base.

We sell the Siromer range of tractors in Spain. They are Jinma tractors, but Yancheng have made some slight modifications and refinements at the request of Siromer to meet the demands of the UK and European markets. Interestingly these refinements have not made the tractors any more expensive, and we are now seeing some of them as standard on the Jinmas being sold here.

My advice would always be to go and have a test drive, and make you own decision - don't believe all the negative press that Chinese tractors get, and definately don't simply agree with what a dealer says about a rival brand without seeing it yourself.

Welcome to TBN! :thumbsup: Whatever brand of tractor you choose, I hope you enjoy it and please share your experiences with us... :thumbsup:

 

[attaboy]

In my experience most of the design features on all the Chinese brands are very similar - they may be evolutionary, but so are John Deere, Case etc...

Here and now it is true that Chinese tractors lack some of the refinement and quality control of those produced in many other countries... but they are catching up quickly and the Yancheng factory which makes Jinma are (I would argue) leading the way, mainly due the large amount of feedback they get from their worldwide customer base.

We sell the Siromer range of tractors in Spain. They are Jinma tractors, but Yancheng have made some slight modifications and refinements at the request of Siromer to meet the demands of the UK and European markets. Interestingly these refinements have not made the tractors any more expensive, and we are now seeing some of them as standard on the Jinmas being sold here.

My advice would always be to go and have a test drive, and make you own decision - don't believe all the negative press that Chinese tractors get, and definately don't simply agree with what a dealer says about a rival brand without seeing it yourself.

Welcome to TBN! :thumbsup: Whatever brand of tractor you choose, I hope you enjoy it and please share your experiences with us... :thumbsup:

New Life for an Old Thread. I have an '07 Jinma 354, and it's built like a brick s***-house. Pulls a 6' box blade uphill all day .. awesome power. I needed a 4wd horse .. have a Kubota L285 and '52 8N, and they have their place. A lot more current info on ctoa dot net for Jinma, but I just wanted to put my two cents worth in here. Only real surprises .. were the Two fuel strainer screens .. one in the tank, and the other actually inside the shut-off valve at the visual fuel bowell ... me duhhhh

Anyway ... I have three Komatsu's with Yanmar engines ... can I stay

 

[SPYDERLK]

New Life for an Old Thread. I have an '07 Jinma 354, and it's built like a brick s***-house. Pulls a 6' box blade uphill all day .. awesome power.

... good brakes & lights?

 

[Smalljobs]

I think we're beating an old horse. These tractors provide outstanding service, great power, simple repairs, outstanding support from this forum and especially parts supplier firms such as Ronald and Tommy. Yes, the fiberglass is not like green or orange and the casting surface finish and trim is not the same, and yes the electronics are not great.

Mine is a reliable workhorse and provides outstanding value.

 

[Localmotion]

Yeah, but it's twaddle from over 9 years ago!

****... read your post, but still didn't twing that THIS thread was 9 years old!!!! Guess I also need an extra cup of coffee before signing into TBN :laughing:

 

[Smalljobs]

I visited the factory a few years ago. Take a look.

 

[bluechip]

This just goes to show that the written word has a life of its own! I suspect I khow who the OP was on this thread, at that time, DF tractors had only one sales outlet in the US and this sounds like something that the salesman for that outfit would have written. I have been to Foton's new plant (well new 5 years ago), Changfa, DF and Shandong Tracotr works. I unfortuantely did not get to Jinma's plant. One thing that really sets DF apart, one of the main reasons I chose them to import, was that they have their own manufacturing capability (not just assembly). The quality of their "chip making" machine tools parrallels many US plants (lots of Japanese and even a couple of US made HAAS machines). In fact my only complaints have been with the outsourced fiberglass parts do to some fading issues. Foton did not have any parts manufacturing and I suspect this has a lot to do with some of the parts availability issues we have seen in the US. They seem to order parts for their assembly line, and to fill orders, but seem to be using the "Just in time" scheduling. The Shandong factory that made our KAMA tractors was quite a dissapointment, fortunately the product line has been sold and current TS tractors are made in a new, hopefully more modern location. The purchased parts by Foton seemed to be how Changfa was able to come to market with a very similar tractor, they have been redesigning their own product line since my visit. It looked like they were isntalling some machine tools in their huge new plant (5 years ago) at that time they were mostly for thier power equipment and engine lines and not tractor parts which I believe they also were outsourcing.
To date I have seen only 2 chinese manufacturers offer a sycnronized shuttle shift transmission, Jaingling/Mahindra was first, and then DF. The company that I suspect the OP worked for distributed Jaingling under the Lenar name and they introduced the first, then soon after Mahindra put an end to that relationship, DF came out with a synchro shuttle, with a fully synchronized transmission. It works very well. My personal opinion is the DF tractors are as good as any other tractor coming out of china and better than most.

Availability of Chinese tractors in the future are very questionable now as Tier IV Epa requirement go into effect. DF has advised that they will only have under 25HP tractors available next year... Of course this will affect all brands, mostly with big price increases.

 

[TruChaos]

I visited the factory a few years ago. Take a look.

I'm glad to see they upgraded from not too long ago when they made tractors in a factory with oil soaked dirt floors.