hydro heater

[ttowne66]

Hello Gents

Just wondering if there are any products/kits out there for heating the hydro fluid in cold climate operation. I have a block heater but that probably doesn't reach the hydro fluid! Thanks.

Tom

 

[beenthere]

Don't know why one would want to heat the hydro fluid. At what temps are you having a problem with it working?

 

[ttowne66]

beenthere

No problems yet! I'd just like to warm the hydro fluid before use when temps are cold. I read a post here where some guy with a BX had a hydro failure and the mechanics blamed it on no warm up before very cold weather operation. Just thought a warmer would help!

 

[ttowne66]

Here is the post on the hydro problem

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Board/owning/Number/815400/page/0/view/collapsed/sb/5/fpart/1

 

[5030]

That's why, in the other post, I said "start it up, leave it idle and have a cup of "Green Mountain Coffee" or a lesser equivalent. You will be warm and so will the engine, trans and all the internal juices.

 

[ttowne66]

So you're saying just letting it idle will take care of everything?

 

[john_bud]

5030,

Bullsnit!

My tractor just dumped it guts out for the 3rd time. (See other post)Temp was 15-17F. I let off the clutch - instant puke. This is a WORKING MACHINE> You have to be able to take it off of the trailer when at a job site. Driving it slowly for a mile to where the work is, should get everything toasty and warm. You can't sit there for 20-30 minutes playing pocket pool with the tractor on the trailer, just to cover for Kubota's incompetent engineering. Yes, Incompetent. They know the pressures involved. Would you offer the same laim advice for a Toyota or Honda with an automatic transmission? "Oh, if it is chilly you can't drive your vehicle for 20-30 minutes until it's all toasty and warm. In fact, don't even engage the clutch or it will cause over $100 in damages."

jb

 

[5030]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( 5030,

Bullsnit!

My tractor just dumped it guts out for the 3rd time. (See other post)Temp was 15-17F. I let off the clutch - instant puke. This is a WORKING MACHINE> You have to be able to take it off of the trailer when at a job site. Driving it slowly for a mile to where the work is, should get everything toasty and warm. You can't sit there for 20-30 minutes playing pocket pool with the tractor on the trailer, just to cover for Kubota's incompetent engineering. Yes, Incompetent. They know the pressures involved. Would you offer the same laim advice for a Toyota or Honda with an automatic transmission? "Oh, if it is chilly you can't drive your vehicle for 20-30 minutes until it's all toasty and warm. In fact, don't even engage the clutch or it will cause over $100 in damages."

jb )</font>

First off, it's a Hydrostatic right?? Why would you not have the tractor in neutral and I realize that you have to push in the clutch to start it, but in neutral with the clutch out it should make no difference and to the statement of pocket pool, your bio says you are a "engineer". Any "engineer" with an inquiring mind knows that there is a warm up time associated with any machinery before that machinery can be used in it's intended capacity. Your "pocket pool" time will be reduced appreciably by a more timely approach to getting to your job.

Besides, there is a clutch lock down attachment right behind the clutch pedal arm (for storage purposes or other purposes) on your tractor, If you are having issues, why not use it??

Not withstanding all that, change your hydro fluid to either Chevron HDT or SUDT.

Do you think that for a minute or two or even five or ten minutes extra time, I'd jump in my $90,000.00 Western Star and $55,000.00 roll off trailer without warming up the tractor itself and engaging the hydraulic PTO and letting the hydraulic fluid circulate in the pump and hoses. If you do, well, I leave it unsaid. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif That unit is my livelihood. Treat your equipment right and it won't let you down.

Like I always tell people who are in a hurry to get there or in a hurry to get things done.......You should have left earlier" /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[lloyd123]

Here's a post I did over in ATV's about a heater for my RTV900 hydro. Of course it only holds about 2.5 gallons:

RTV900 Oil Heater

MikePA: Please review your message before posting it. It's simple not to create a long link that widens the entire thread. Just insert a descriptive word or two between the {url=http://whatever}<font color="red">Enter words here</font>{/url} instead of the entire URL. Replace parentheses {} with square brackets in previous example. Alternatively, if you use the Instant Markup language URL link, the first prompt is for the URL. The second prompt is for a description. Do not simply paste in the URL again. Type a short description of the link.

Thanks for the information - I'll follow your instructions in the future.

 

[ttowne66]

Lloud

Thanks a bunch....this is just what I was looking for.


I have one issue with the marketing of this product. HEAT travels in all directions.....HOT AIR rises. Big difference. So mount the thing wherever you want. perhaps applying a little 1in foam insulation would enhance the performance? Thanks again.

Tom

 

[john_bud]

5030,

Yes, it's a hydro. Maybe you don't realize that the charge pump in the transmission only turns when the clutch is out? (it does) Maybe you didn't realize that there is no appreciable temperature increase in hydraulic fluid until it is circulated by letting out the clutch? (There isn't) Maybe you didn't realize that the leak occurred the instant that the clutch was let out? (it did) Maybe you didn't realize that the filter in question is filtering the post charge pump PRESSURE side and not the low pressure return? (see page 3-NM9 in the Kubota Workshop Manual figures 12190F30110 and 12190F30120) Maybe you didn't realize that there is a Filter Protective Relief Valve in the system to protect against cold fluid blowing out the filter when the clutch is let out--> but it is failing to provide the intended protection! Maybe you didn't realize that a competent engineer would have ensured that it provides the intended protection, allowing the operator of the tractor to warm it up without catastrophic failure of the filter. Maybe you don't realize that backing off a trailer is far and away less than the intended purpose of a tractor? Maybe you didn't read that the tractor has Amsoil synthetic fluid in it, which is rated the same viscosity as SUDT?

I was not in a "hurry", I didn't need to leave sooner. The temperature was between 15 and 17 degrees F. The engine was idling at 1300 rpm. It was allowed to idle for approximately 1 minute - till the exhaust cleared up and the engine smoothed out. This didn't take long as it wasn't that cold out. As I said, it started leaking the instant the clutch was let out and spewed nearly a gallon of fluid in the 3 feet that I backed up. Yes, I do know what I am doing. This is not my first diesel, nor my only tractor. I do treat my equipment right. Filters are changed much more frequently than required by the book. I buy them in bulk and change them every spring and again when fluids are changed at the end of summer. The quality of fluids I use are higher than those supplied by Kubota. I do my own maintenance from pumping the grease gun to rebuilding engines.

Since you make you living with your equipment, how would you feel if every time you start up your $90,000 Western Star you don't know if it is going blow out the main hydraulic filter the instant you let out the clutch? How about after the third time it happened? How about if you found that the replacement filter in question had been changed in design and construction each time it was replaced after it blew? (the replacement being new and improved to fix this issue, that Kubota won't acknowledge). How about if you use the upgraded filters and best available low temp fluids only to have it happen again and again?

To keep you from having to search the archives, the first time this occurred the tractor was new. It blew out the filter's o-ring while it was idling --> in the act of warming it up prior to use. The clutch was not dogged down. It blew out nearly all of the fluid onto the floor of the shed and would have done serious damage had it idled longer. I idle all my diesels between 1200 and 1400 to warm them. The dealer told me that the cure was to dog down the clutch peddle while it warms up. The second time the tractor had been idled for 20-30 minutes with the clutch dogged down, was reading normally on the coolant temp gage before moving it and it still blew out within 25 yards of the equipment shed. I know other folks that have had similar if not the same experience with cool and cold weather operation of Kubota HST tractors. Boondox is one that is fairly well known on this site. This is not an isolated issue that has only happened to me due to operator error.

Enjoy your $90,000 Western Star and your 5030. I do hope that your HST system has had this engineering flaw fixed.

jb

 

[lloyd123]

Tom,

I would agree that heat travels equally in all directions in a solid but I think putting the heater on the bottom of a oil pan/transmission would speed the heating process when heating the fluid inside. The oil/transmission fluid would act very much like hot air - hot fluid will rise and cold fluid will sink - thus speeding the heating process. I believe air is considered a fluid in many respects - I seem to recall from physics class many years ago.

George

 

[PAB_OH]

Spot on. Heating from the bottom will cause "convection" (i.e. movement) of the fluid and expose the cooler fluid to the heat source. heating from the top probably wouldn't be much slower though. I don't know for sure. It would be slower though, if I am remembering correctly the details of my hydraulics class in college almost 6-7 years ago! /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif