hydro electric power?

[Raspy]

Most car/truck alternators might be too small. If you go the automotive route look at bus or passenger railroad car generators. They are significantly larger.

I agree. We just don't know at this point how much water he has or amps he can make. If it happened to match his system, a 130 Amp, Prestolite, large frame, self energizing unit is an excellent choice and readily available. They can crank out the amps continuously. It would take about 5 horsepower to run it. Don't know if he'll have that much power.

 

[Raspy]

As for your house, remember resale. 700 SF or 900 SF is a hard sell in our area, 1300 is the minimum, I know more house than you need or want but if you have kids looking toward inheritance....... Or just want some money if you have to shuffle to a retirement home.....

I think it's much better that he design his house for himself based on his and his wife's needs and experience, rather than build it for someone he'll never meet and who won't be looking at it until after he is gone. Besides, if he likes it, so will a prospective new owner. I've never understood the appeal of building my home for someone I'll never meet. That is, unless it's just a spec home for quick turn around. Doesn't sound like that's the case here.

 

[tungularafishcamp]

Good luck on your project muddstopper!

I too went with hydro n batteries in 96 and it is still going strong! In fact still using my original 8d gel cells.

I went with a 24volt system as it was @75' from the turbine to the batteries.

I just have a 3 inch line with 80' of head and depending on my needs(how many folks are at camp) I can make 26 amps if I need it but normally 15 is all I need for everything plus a little extra for heating the back room with the dummy load.

There have been a lot of improvements in the last 20 years, I look forward to seeing what you choose for your system.
Rick

 

[FarmWrench]

Most major pump manufacturing companies build, reclamation units or regeneration units. They are a basically "backwards" pumps, the impeller and volute are set as a Francis turbine. Used to reclaim the energy in descending fluids in industry and large buildings. Sized for your flow and head and built with industrial components including the generation. With a return on investment of decades you need components built for decades.

Another advantage of this is the fall from below the turbine is still captured. Impact wheels need the tailstock to be empty. That means you must build above the high water mark. Oftentimes that will cut 10' of fall. You don't lose that drop until the water rises with the mixed flow design.

 

[CobyRupert]

Seems that if you can store the energy as water with 75' of head (behind a dam or large tank) it has to be a lot more efficient than converting it several times to and from battery storage (anyone got the efficiency numbers on battery systems?)
Can you do net metering with utility and use them as "storage" (credit storage instead of watts).
Having a larger tank at the head may allow smaller battery system depending on the duration of your peak energy usage. Though the control system might get more sophisticated,
It seems there'd be a trade off of many factors. Costs, controls, total watt usage vs peak vs peak duration vs average, etc..

 

[muddstopper]

Fisrt off, I know i have a lot more studying to do before I start this project. I will say before everybody goes off on the whole net metering thing, they need to realize I have to deal with the TVA. First and foremost, if you do decide to use their power lines as your storage station I will just paste the one paragraph of their requirements that might just discourage you from doing so. "Due to these safety concerns, Green Power Providers participants will not be able to supply power to their homes during an outage and should discuss other outage options with their local power company." Now that one sentence would seem to defeat the whole purpose of generating my own power, and that is to have power when the grid is down. Another big drawback of dealing with the TVA is that they already have a contract with all the power companies about who they can buy their power from, in other words, my local power company cant buy my excess power production only the TVA can buy my excess power, for this reason the TVA places restriction on just how much power I am allowed to produce and can actually revoke my permission if I produce more than I use. Then you have the whole permitting process and its a nitemare. For new construction, they want to have complete control of everything that goes into a house, including the type of windows and the amount of insulation and even site location. Any thing you might want to change during construction has to go thru their approval process and that can take up to 6 months. Screw that, I can do this without their so called help. Some one posted something about our freedoms, it might interest some of you to know that America ranks 20th when it comes to individual freedoms, we aint the leader anymore.
as for building the house with resale valvue in mind. Not and issue, I'll live there till I die and then be buried out back. We actually have our own cemetery and have owned the land Since King George issued the first land grants. If the kids decide to sale, it wont be until after my wife and I are gone.

To address some of the questions asked. While I have only took rudimentary measurements just to see if what I want to do is even feasible I should have about 3.5hp available to run my generator, that should be about 2600 watts or 108 amps for a 24v alternator. The site location I have chosen is about 75ft below the head site as checked with a gps. I could possibly go another 50ft of fall but to do so would mean running a lot of wire a long way from the generator back to the house. I could move the house site, to get closer to the generators, just not sure I want to. Water will be piped from head approx 1000ft, another gps measurement, thru the generator, into a water box designed to hold water and allow the water to return back to the stream unrestricted. Flooding of the generator due to storms or high water would have to be pretty extreme, possible, but if it happens the power plant will be the least of my worries. Now the reason for storing water after generation is to provide a place to put a heat exchanger I intend to use to provide air conditioning for the home. Thats a whole new set of problems, but doable.

 

[CNC Dan]

I think the TVA rules mean that a grid tie inverter can't function as a stand alone inverter. If you got setup for a grid tie system, then during a power outage you could hook your hydro DC to a second non-grid tied inverter to power your AC loads. You would still need a transfer switch just like you were using a gas generator.

But it looks like the TVA is a PITA no matter what. You might be able to have a proper transfer switch installed, and meet most of your needs that way, using your hydro system. I know they make modified car/truck alternators to produce higher voltages for hydro electric use. Get the highest voltage you can safely work with for efficiency sake.

Also look for a book called " the 12 Volt doctors alternator book"
Lots of good info on modifying and using automotive alternators to produce power.

 

[muddstopper]

I believe that transfer switching is automatic in event the grid power goes down. Its been a while since I was researching all this. Its just came up again because I have a buyer interested in my current home so its got me researching again. When I first started looking at alternative power, I was actually researching solar. At that time I could install a complete system to power everything for around $13,000. I dont think that amount of money will buy much of a system now. I believe with the right conditions, a hydro system is a cheaper alternative to either solar or wind. While I still have to do a lot of research and planning, I believe i have an acceptable site suitable for a microhydro system. Whether or not it can produce all the power I need has still to be determined. Whether one chooses to go solar, wind, or hydro, there are a lot of things to consider. It gets expensive to run heat and air conditioning, cloths dryers, heat hot water, and electric stoves, or to size a system that will provide for these things. When building a new house, there are a lot of things that can be done to lower power consumption. I currently heat with wood, but dont want a wood fire year round just to heat hot water. I plan on using a series of solar collectors to give me plenty of hot water. I'll install a energy efficient heat pump, but my main source of heat will be a wood stove. Using a series of heat exchangers I can use the same water I use to run my generators to cool the house in the summer. I have an ideal for a water heated clothes dryer, havent seen one yet, but its just an ideal I had.

I have seen all kinds of auto alternators conversions, as well as electric motors converted. Using an electric motor actually provides the cleanest voltage and can be used straight out of the motor without a lot of expensive converters. Its also takes the most water to operate and is very dependant on making sure everything is running properly. Alternators converted to permanate magnets will produce some AC power at any speed and is realitively cheap, its all the sine wave converters and inverters that break the bank. Then you have the cost of all the batteries, even with a hydrosystem generating power 24/7, there will be times when you use more power than you can produce, for this reason a battery storage station is a must, unless you can net meter, which for me isnt a very good option.

The 12volt doctors book online. http://kb-kbh.dk/shipslib/el_ombord/alternatorhandbook_ocr.pdf

 

[Sawyer Rob]

Lots of folks run their cloths dryers off their out door boiler... For a time, I ran mine off my wood furnace in my basement...

SR

 

[muddstopper]

I would like a little more info about running a clothes dryer off a boiler if you can provide it. I would thing hot water is hot water whether it comes from a solar collector or a wood stove. Did you use some sort of heat exchanger and blow air across it into the dryer. I watched those Alaska folks build a fire under a 55gal drum and then turn the drum by hand to dry their clothes. Not sure I would want to turn a crank handle by hand until a load of clothes dried. LOL