Hydraulics?

[fishmasterdan]

I need a little info about my tractor.

On the rear of the tractor there is 2 extra hydraulic hoses ready for something?? I am not sure what the are or how to work them.

I am having a grapple built right now for the FEL and am wodering if I could use those extra ports or should I purchase a selector valve. I am an electrician so I understand the electric selector valve but not sure about the hydraulics.

Will my 284 Jinma be able to use the extra ports or are they for something else and how are they controlled?

Thanks for your input.

 

[bluechip]

If they are actuated by a separate lever, with a valve monuted on the right hand side of the seat, you could use them, as that set up is one pair (in and out) full remote, HOWEVER, most likely you have them tied to the lift valve, which is a HALF remote (one way out and a return port that just dumps back in through the drain plug) controled by the lift control lever so you cant work them and the 3 point lift at the same time. I guess if you had a spring to open your grapple, and didn't need the 3 point, you could use it to close the grapple, but probably better to install a separte valve, or the electric device that can shift the flow from the curl cylinders to the grapple back and forth with push button.

 

[JerryG]

The two hoses aren't by chance connected to each other are they?

 

[fishmasterdan]

They are not connected. One comes out of the left side the other comes out the right side.

I wish there was a decent manual made for these tractors.

Dan

 

[RonMar]

Dan
Some of the tractors I looked at down in Bremerton last fall had the dual QC's in back. Mine only has the single fitting but I believe they work the same way. The fitting on the right(Female) is the supply and comes from the bottom of the 3PH control valve. The male fitting on the left is the return and is plummed into the left side of the resovoir.

The supply port on the right sees the same pressure that the 3PH lift cylinder does. I believe it was designed to provide hydraulic pressure to a single acting cylinder on a dump trailer. You can get hydraulic fluid to go to this port only without raising the 3PH, by turning the 3PH speed regulating knob/valve in front of the seat fully clockwise untill closed. Then you can raise the 3PH control lever to get pressure to that port. With the speed valve closed, the 3PH arms won't move to the top and bump the control lever back to neutral so you can provide fluid to this port all day long. I added a return port to my hydraulic resovoir filler cap to make use of that rear circuit. My main plan was to make up a hydraulic return line filter that I can plug into the ports to fine filter the fluid when I am not using the 3PH, but now i can easilly feed a logsplitter(albeit slowly.

Since you have a return port, you could add another open center spool valve such as for a log splitter or to control the grapple. But you can't use those ports and the 3PH at the same time. Even with the speed valve opened, you have to disconnect at least one of the ports as the fluid will just go thru the open center valve and into the resovoir instead of lifting the 3PH when you raise the 3PH control lever.

I plan on adding a grapple also, but the least expensive way I have found to do it is to replace the 2 spool valve with a 3 spool valve to control the third circuit. This also has the advantage of giving me Float on the first spool. The Prince valve that came with my loader dosn't have float and I really miss it from the other tractors I have used. I am looking at this valve at Northern that has the same specs as the one I currently have, but has a 3rd spool and float on the first spool. The ports are the same size so I could plumb it in place in about 10 minutes. I plan on adding QC's right off the valve's working ports to the grapple or back to a hyd toplink or anything else I want to control when not using the grapple.

http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_8516_8516

With nothing connected to that rear supply port, the relief valve in the 3PH valve will open and send the fluid to the resovoir when you raise the control lever with the speed valve closed. I put a 0-5000 PSI pressure gauge on a male QC and plug it in there to check the 3PH relief valve pressure on my tractor. The relief on mine was set in excess of 3000 PSI which blew out the "o" rings on the loader valve shortly after I started using a large brushhog. This might be something you would want to check also.

 

[fishmasterdan]

Ron;
You are the man. That is exactly what I wanted to know. I believe I have the same loader as you. I have no float and want one. I like the idea of the 3 spools/valves. I need to look closer but I thought there was a hose for each of the spools. So I thought a 3 valve/spool thing would'nt work (as you can tell I know almost nothing about hydraulics).

So if I understand you correctly the little knob right below the set is the "speed valve". Be tightening it all the way down it then will put fluid to the ports out the back. I have not used the 3PH yet because I have a backhoe on it still. I think I understand what you said. Basically I cannot use the extra port if I am using the 3PT.

If you are intrested in a grapple I will let you know how much the one I am having made costs. I had trouble finding one that fit my bucket size so I had a friend build me one (he runs a metal fabricating shop).

 

[RonMar]

I need to look closer but I thought there was a hose for each of the spools. So I thought a 3 valve/spool thing would'nt work (as you can tell I know almost nothing about hydraulics).

There is a main inlet and outlet port on the valve. It is open center so when the levers are in the middle, fluid flows right thru to the outlet relatively unobstructed. Each spool has 2 working ports. The working ports are connected to each side of a dual acting cylinder or cylinders in parallel(like those that lift the loader arms). When you move a spool valve lever, fluid is diverted from the inlet to one of the working ports and flows to a cylinder. That fluid pushes the piston and causes it to move. The fluid on the other side of the piston is pushed out of the cylinder and back to the other working port which is connected to the valve outlet. When you move the valve the other way, the fluid flow in the working ports is exactly the opposit so the cylinder moves the other way. If the cylinder is overloaded, the safety relief located near the valve inlet opens and the fluid bypasses the spools and goes on to the outlet port.

If your loader currently has the same Prince 5200 series valve that mine does, all you would have to do with the new valve is connect up the 3/4" inlet and outlet ports, and connect the 1/2" hoses that are currently in the working ports from the first and second spool, the same way they are now. Then just add the hoses for the grapple cylinder or cylinders to the two remaining ports on the third spool. I was going to attach the grapple to the bucket with pins like the bucket is attached to the arms. On the two working ports of the third spool I was going to put a male and a female quick connect so when I take off the grapple or switch to my other bucket, all I have to do to the hydraulics is release the two QC's.

After looking at the other options, this was the most cost effective and none of the others gave me float on the first spool so that made it the obvious choice for me. The only fab work I will have to do is to make a new base plate for the valve and weld it on top of the existing plate. I was thinking of re-positioning the valve anyway to make it a little more comfortable for me and more easilly reachable for my wife.

So if I understand you correctly the little knob right below the set is the "speed valve". Be tightening it all the way down it then will put fluid to the ports out the back. I have not used the 3PH yet because I have a backhoe on it still. I think I understand what you said. Basically I cannot use the extra port if I am using the 3PT.

That is correct.

If you are intrested in a grapple I will let you know how much the one I am having made costs. I had trouble finding one that fit my bucket size so I had a friend build me one (he runs a metal fabricating shop).

Yes, I would be interested. I have some box blade ripper teeth that I am not going to use and thought I would incorporate into mine. I would like to know what the structure of yours costs.

 

[SPIKER]

others have simply added a electrical diverter valve at or just beoynd the main loader alve and have a switch that DIVERTS the flow from the loader valves curl function to the Grapple functions. looking at surplus centyer or even evilbay can get the needed parts, in 12 volt and a little fab up work and a few wires to them would be about as easy. this is the way I'll probably go when I build my grapple later on.

mark m