Hydraulic flow less in Kubota?

[ecoscaper]

I'm researching the heck out of my tractor upgrade, upgrading from a Kubota L3830 40hp to a 50-60 hp tractor, have drove a L57, looked at the M6040, drove a JD 4520, Case 55, . I'm pretty set on Kubota, no real problems with my L38 for 6yrs. But I'm noticing in the specs the hydraulic flow is less in the Kubota vs JD and Case. The L57 is around 14 the JD is 17, the M6040 down to 11,. I'm no mechanic, does this make a big difference in the performance of the loader? Is it more for attachements? The bucket in my L38 always seemed pretty responsive, but as I was talking to the JD dealer he said there's a big difference in JD's hydraulics vs. Kubota, the tranny and loader units are seperate in the JD, the Kubota all the same. I never ran anything that needed hydraulic flow but I will be getting a grapple bucket, possible other attachments that'll need flow. Is there a big difference here or am I overanalizing? Thanks for any info!

 

[LD1]

I'm researching the heck out of my tractor upgrade, upgrading from a Kubota L3830 40hp to a 50-60 hp tractor, have drove a L57, looked at the M6040, drove a JD 4520, Case 55, . I'm pretty set on Kubota, no real problems with my L38 for 6yrs. But I'm noticing in the specs the hydraulic flow is less in the Kubota vs JD and Case. The L57 is around 14 the JD is 17, the M6040 down to 11,. I'm no mechanic, does this make a big difference in the performance of the loader? Is it more for attachements? The bucket in my L38 always seemed pretty responsive, but as I was talking to the JD dealer he said there's a big difference in JD's hydraulics vs. Kubota, the tranny and loader units are seperate in the JD, the Kubota all the same. I never ran anything that needed hydraulic flow but I will be getting a grapple bucket, possible other attachments that'll need flow. Is there a big difference here or am I overanalizing? Thanks for any info!

The obvious one you are missing is the L57 is 14.7 and the JD is 17.1 but those are TOTAL flow. That includes the powersteering.

Why they do that is probabally marketing. PS flow means nothing to me.

But break it down (take out PS flow) and the L5740 is 9.8, the JD is 12 and the M6040 is 11. So those are a lot closer #'s.

In the real world, I doubt you will be able to tell much difference. Unless you are using a lot of attachments that are driven hydraulicly with a hyd. motor. But just pushing loader and grapple cylinders, there will be minimal difference.

 

[Grandad4]

More hydraulic flow is good, but it's not the most critical factor for most owners, and you have to be aware of marketing and sales hype whenever you buy stuff like this. For any practical use, these tractors all work perfectly well and will stand up to years of operation with good maintenance. There is virutally no situation you would ever encounter where you'd be saying "Gee, this tractor is keeping me from doing my work because it's lacking 2 more gpm of hydraulic flow for the implements". Anyone telling you his product is the only one that is designed correctly and your life will be miserable if you buy anything else is playing you for a fool. When a salesman puts down the competitor's products, it tells you more about him than the competitor.

 

[leonz]

More hydraulic flow is good, but it's not the most critical factor for most owners, and you have to be aware of marketing and sales hype whenever you buy stuff like this. For any practical use, these tractors all work perfectly well and will stand up to years of operation with good maintenance. There is virutally no situation you would ever encounter where you'd be saying "Gee, this tractor is keeping me from doing my work because it's lacking 2 more gpm of hydraulic flow for the implements". Anyone telling you his product is the only one that is designed correctly and your life will be miserable if you buy anything else is playing you for a fool. When a salesman puts down the competitor's products, it tells you more about him than the competitor.

Well said;


If you are worried about fluid power and flow look at the Kubota M8540 as it is ment for orchard and vineyard work which requires lots of fluid power for loaders and narrow hydraulic implements in a narrow low profile size.

 

[rjkobbeman]

Well said;


If you are worried about fluid power and flow look at the Kubota M8540 as it is ment for orchard and vineyard work which requires lots of fluid power for loaders and narrow hydraulic implements in a narrow low profile size.

True, you can get an M8540 in a "Narrow" version which is the orchard version you speak of. However the M8540 does come in the normal tractor version... which is what most of us M8540 owners have (myself included). The "Narrow" version is not the norm... but is available if you need it.

Hydraulic flow was one of my considerations when upgrading to the M8540. Although I don't my 3rd function valve often, I do sometimes rent a hydraulic trencher that requires good flow. My M8540 has 17gpm in the remotes (23gpm total).

 

[J_J]

GPM's of hyd flow determines the speed of operation. High hyd flow will cause the motor to turn faster, cyl will react faster. If the components and the pressure are the same, you will still have the same power for lifting and curl. Pressure determines the force.

For example, using a 3pt log splitter on a 5 GPM tractor, the cyl will have a certain cycle time. Same tractor with a 10 GPM pump, will decrease the cycle time by a factor of 2.

Larger pump GPM's may require larger hoses, and you can use larger hyd motors, and larger cylinders. That is one reason why they factor in larger hyd pumps for larger tractors and implements.

Some skidsteers have low and high flow for certain conditions.

 

[art]

There is more to a hydraulic system then just looking a the gallons per minute! There are tractors that with a full bucket can still turn the front wheels without having to move the tractor. Then again there are brand new tractors that can't!

There are tractors that have less gallons per minute flow but their loaders lift more!
I've seen tractors that have bigger hydraulic systems which you do run all the time and draw power even when you aren't using them from the engine. The worst part is they don't lift as much and some times move it alot slower.

There has to be a good balance to have it all come together.

 

[TripleR]

I have an L5030 and i am sure it doesn't perform up to the L5740, but on no occasion have I had any problems with sufficient hydraulic flow.

 

[Tnbilly]

When I was looking for a tractor this last spring I was a little over the top looking and judging by the printed specs....... made the decision pretty hard, let me tell ya. I finally decided to make my decision which brand to buy based on the reputation of the manufacturer and if/where the present model tractor is made. I ended up with the Kubota M6040 - I'll never look back! I've worked, assulted and generally beat this poor tractor digging this summer (extremely dry) in hard clay around some out houses. I haven't had the first problem with it and I've though somehow it's a little orange Everready if ya know what I mean. Either that or take a lick'n and keeps on tick'n. The hydraulics have not presented any problems in anything I've done so far. One thing the dealers definitely won't tell you I can attest to, Kubota has the best fuel economy of anything I've been on! It runs right around .7 of a gallon per hour in real world usage.

 

[rjkobbeman]

The gallons per minute flow is more of an issue when you run hydraulic pumps (motors) accessories -- like a trencher, post hole digger, jack-hammer, etc.

In a FEL cylinder situation, GPM would have more to do with speed than ability... if designed correctly.

 

[art]

I was talking to the JD dealer he said there's a big difference in JD's hydraulics vs. Kubota, the tranny and loader units are seperate in the JD, the Kubota all the same.

Salesmen, B. S. naw!!!! Kubota uses seperate pumps as well! An educated guess is that he might be honest, just not tractor smart! Find a new one! Wear easy to clean boots.

 

[tony Cecil]

I think a good test for you is to lunge into a pile of dirt, and simultaneously lift and curl the bucket at the same time...I find the Kubota to be slow when you do that...Easy to put up with if you don`t do a lot of loading at one time...Tony

 

[crazyal]

Maybe you would be better off saying why you think you need the extra flow. There are situations where more would be nicer, a wood splitter comes to mind, a hydraulic post hole digger, etc.

For me it was a non issue. If the FEL is not raising up as quick as I would like I rev the motor up a little. Everything else I have that hydaulic powered are things like a chute rotator that having more would not make a difference.

Like anything else in this world somebody somewhere will put a bigger motor, more GMP of hydraulic flow, more weight, or something else to try and say "Ours is better". What you need to do as a buyer is decide which features are more important to you, what ones aren't important, and what ones make no difference in the real world.

 

[ecoscaper]

Thanks guys great info, what would I do without this site?! As I think about what I need into the future its going to be a lot of loader work, raking, plowing, brushhogging, etc.

Crazyal, I'm glad you brought up the wood splitter and posthole digger, I could have a big use for those the more I think about it. So that's where higher flow will make a difference, is it going to be an issue on a M60 or M70? I'm assuming both models would do the job but maybe someone has experience w/those attachments and models. Would the L57 having more flow be better than the M series for those attachments? Make a difference? Didn't consider the M85 (bigger than M60/70?) seems like there's some good deals on used M series tractors, but It'd be tough to beet the 0% financing.
Again, thanks for the info.

 

[rbargeron]

Another point - Kubota's FEL valves make good use of the flow by recirculating fluid in the valve to augment the supply - results in a lower required system gpm for similar loader speed and feel. I've had several machines of different stripes - hydraulic flow has never been a deciding issue. More recently I've been noticing hydraulic snowblowers (24 gpm) - but it would take a pto wet kit for that much flow, or maybe a Hi-Flo skid steer or Tool Cat.......

 

[TripleR]

As mentioned, we have an L5030 and M8540 and don't know how they could work any better for loader work.

 

[ecoscaper]

rbargeron, thanks for that reassuring info! I checked out the M85 its a bit pricier, not as many used out there vs. the M60/70, this is a big purchase, tractor should be able to do it all. The JD 4720 has 17 gpm, and its still a compact, I just trust Kubota and would like to stay orange.

 

[art]

I think a good test for you is to lunge into a pile of dirt, and simultaneously lift and curl the bucket at the same time...I find the Kubota to be slow when you do that...Easy to put up with if you don`t do a lot of loading at one time...Tony

It would be good to know what you are comparing it too!

Some loaders you can't do two functions with at the same time at all!

 

[CHDinCT]

ecoscaper, why are you saying the L has more flow? Here's what I get from looking at the Kubota web site. Looks like the M has higher total flow and higher flow available for implements/ remotes/3PH.

L5740
4.9 gpm Power Steering
9.8 gpm Remote/3 Pt. Hitch
14.7 gpm Total Hyd. Flow

M6040
6.1 gpm Power Steering
11.0 gpm Remotes / 3 Pt. Hitch
@ 2770 psi
17.1 gpm Total

 

[slowzuki]

Is he talking about the industrial backhoe model, I don't know the current number, its got a big pump.

I've got a L5030 as well, its loader is nice and fast. In an HST model the loader is usually quite fast as the engine (and pump) are turning at high rpm all the time.

A gear model, when say doing loader work is being driven using the pedal and returns to idle instinctively when the tractor isn't moving. This slows the pump and loader down.

You do learn to rev the engine when raising the bucket all the way but it takes a bit of practice, especially in a place where you need to keep the brakes on.

Woodsplitters, it depends on the size of the clyinder. I have a monster 6" bore one, you need to idle the tractor at about 2000 rpm to work at a good pace. A normal 4" cylinder works well at just a bit over idle (on a 10 gpm rated machine)

Hydraulic posthole diggers, if you have any rock, you won't be running it at anything but low speed, so it really isn't a problem. If you have hundreds of holes, and rock free soil, you might want to do it faster?