Hydraulic Bleeding Simplified?

/ Hydraulic Bleeding Simplified? #1  

Dakar

Bronze Member
Joined
May 16, 2004
Messages
53
Location
Bolivar, MO
Okay guys, am I a genius or a moron? I reached the 50 hour point on my 425 and did the maintenance including the hydraulic filter change.

Naturally I turned what should have been a simple job into a real chore. On the current 425's with the Robin engine, the bleed port on the hydraulic pump is not as accessible as it could be, being underneath the fuel tank and behind several other hydraulic hoses. Getting the fitting off at 1/8 of a turn at a time while standing on my head wasn't so bad, but trying to get the bleeder hose to thread onto it was no fun. After a number of attempts, I finally got it started, and as I was repeating the 1/8 turn at a time routine, I got to thinking: Hey, this hose is just going to sit in the tank anyway, how much pressure could build up in it? It doesn't really need to be tight does it? Naw, it will be fine if I stop here. After all, I am going to have to go through this whole process again in a few minutes.

So I stopped right there and proceeded to bleed the air out of the system. Of course I was so engrossed in watching the little air bubbles that I never looked back into the tub to see the growing oil slick that was approaching Exxon Valdez proportions. Anyway, 2 rolls of paper towels later, I had tightened up the hose, added oil, rebled the sytem, removed the hose, and it hit me. Why not leave the hose on the pump, with a female fitting on the end, and the cap back on that? Coil it up in the tub, and it is just laying there waiting to be used 50 hours from now (and no chance of losing it.) I called up Terry to get his blessing on my brainstorm, but instead of him saying 'what a fantastic idea, we will do that with all PTs in the future', all I got was a distracted 'yeah, maybe that will work okay.' So I went ahead and took the hose down to the nearest tractor store and got the fitting attached and hooked it up that way, and it has run fine, but I got to thinking maybe I better bounce this off the real experts and either take my lumps if it is a truly bad idea or accept the accolades if everyone likes it. I honestly can't see any down side to it as this is just another section of the same hydraulic hose that is already on the tractor, but what do you experts think?
 
/ Hydraulic Bleeding Simplified? #2  
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( On the current 425's with the Robin engine )</font>


I think that I am sooooo happy that I purchased my PT-425 in 2/4 with the Kohler engine and steel fuel tank!! I have been dutifully reading all Power Trac posts here on TBN since then, and I have not seen that the conversion to the Robin engine has produced any positive results!! For example, the problem that you describe about hydraulic bleeding does not exist on my PT-425! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
/ Hydraulic Bleeding Simplified? #3  
Yeah, but I've got stronger wheel motors so I can chase my wife around the yard faster. Now she can't run away from me when I'm chasing her up those hills! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
/ Hydraulic Bleeding Simplified? #4  
Dakar,

Adding another hose offers another potential area for leaks. Did Terry say how much pressure developed at the vent plug when the engine is running at full speed? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

DHS
 
/ Hydraulic Bleeding Simplified? #5  
Since we're on this subject, does anyone have any good pictures of the current variable volume pump? I'd like to see it since there is no longer a hydroback.
 
/ Hydraulic Bleeding Simplified? #6  
MR,

What is a hydroback?
 
/ Hydraulic Bleeding Simplified?
  • Thread Starter
#7  
Terry didn't say, but my thinking is that there should not be any more pressure on that hose than any of the others that are attached to the pump, and it is the same type of hose that is used everywhere else in the system. Does that seem like a reasonable line of thinking? And has anyone else had any trouble bleeding air with the current setup? (Some one else say that you have, even if it isn't true. Don't make me feel any worse.)

David
 
/ Hydraulic Bleeding Simplified?
  • Thread Starter
#8  
Oh yeah, I found a fun new thing to do with the PT today. I finished cutting up some trees that had been removed when our house was built for firewood, then used the PT to roll and push the stumps down to my brushpile. OF course, if I had listened to Fourteen and sprung for the grapple bucket, I might have been able to just carry them, but it was sort of fun rolling them down the hill.
 
/ Hydraulic Bleeding Simplified? #9  
The bleeder plug on mine is not that hard to get to as you say yours is, but if it was I would do the same thing or at least use whatever fittings that was nessary to get it out to where it would be easy to get to. I don't claim to be an expert but I wouldn't want to go through that hassel every time I needed to change the oil, that would make a person hate to see the 50 hr srevice come up. I have the metal gas tank on mine and servicing it is not that hard to do seems like every thing is up where it is easy to get to.
 
/ Hydraulic Bleeding Simplified? #10  
Our model year PT425 has a cable that attaches to the treadle peadle, runs through the center tunnel and then attaches to a lever on top of the variable volume pump. That mechanism is called the hydroback by Power Trac.

The newer models appear to have a hydraulic valve attached to the treadle peddle and hydraulic hoses that run through the center tunnel and then attach to ports on the variable volume pump.
 
/ Hydraulic Bleeding Simplified? #11  
<font color="blue"> Getting the fitting off at 1/8 of a turn at a time while standing on my head wasn't so bad, but trying to get the bleeder hose to thread onto it was no fun. </font>

For removing the fitting cap, couldn't you use a swivel socket on an extension bar?
 
/ Hydraulic Bleeding Simplified?
  • Thread Starter
#12  
There was just too much in the way. The hoses that interfered were all larger sized and impossible to move far enough in any direction. Isn't there anyone else with the 25 hp Robin engine who has changed filters yet? I would enjoy the feedback whether you had difficulties or not.
 
/ Hydraulic Bleeding Simplified? #13  
Mine's only the 22hp, but a couple of weeks ago I changed oil filters and engine oil. Since I was welding the Supertrap onto the existing muffler, I removed the whole muffler/manifold assembly. That made it pretty easy to reach the engine filter, and also the bleed fitting for the hydraulics. Next time I will either do that again, or maybe remove the gas tank instead.

Thanks to whichever member posted the trick about putting a gallon ziplock baggie over the hydraulic filter when changing it. That made it a clean and easy operation.

Phil
 
/ Hydraulic Bleeding Simplified? #14  
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Yeah, but I've got stronger wheel motors /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif )</font>

No you don't!! I have the latest wheel motors!! They were upgraded by PT before the switch to Robin. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
/ Hydraulic Bleeding Simplified? #15  
I have a question. At any given rpm will the weaker wheel moters run faster than the newer? Sometimes I have long distances to travel and I would hate to give up any speed! I have never heard that PT made any changes to the tram pump when they installed the newer wheel moters. That is also a Question?
 
/ Hydraulic Bleeding Simplified? #16  
They use to have the speed of the PT425 listed as 0-8 MPH. I do not find the speeds listed on the website anymore. Anyone else find it?
 
/ Hydraulic Bleeding Simplified? #17  
The baggie trick was a good one...one of those "Why didn't I think of that"!!!!! I find it fairly easy to remove the gas tank when changing the oil filter(or needing more room in the lower area)...of course, an almost empty tank makes it all the easier! /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
/ Hydraulic Bleeding Simplified? #18  
Dakar,

I'm thinking about doing something similar for the same reasons. Being mechanically paranoid, I plan to get a hose with a higher pressure rating made up, add a high pressure ball valve to the end, and then cap that to keep the dirt out.

I may eventually add a return fitting to the tank so I can keep the hose & valve connected and bleed by just turning a valve. That will have to wait until I have time to do it right, making absolutely sure no metal shavings are left in the tank.

Gravy
 
/ Hydraulic Bleeding Simplified?
  • Thread Starter
#19  
Very good ideas. I especially like the idea of the ball valve. Probably the worst aspect of the extension hose is trying to get the cap back on the end without allowing a little air into it.
 
/ Hydraulic Bleeding Simplified? #20  
Dakar,

I feel your pain. I have a pt-425 with robin engine. Changing the hydo filter is a major pain in the you know what !!!!
It surely could have been made easier.
I think you have got a great idea with the bleeder hose.
 

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