Hydralic Oil Question

[SevenCorners]

I have been noticing that when I start my tractor it takes a couple of minutes before the 3pt will raise. I have noticed that the time is actually getting longer. When I travel up hills oil spills out the rear Hyda breather tube. Does this sound like I need to add more fluid? The FEL still lowers and raises immediately when started, the steering wheel will also immediately turn.

 

[bmartin]

Seven, My 2425 did the same thing so I cleaned the filter and added enough oil to bring it up to full and that stopped it. I think the oil that was in origonally would foam and the filter was dirty. By the way I'm down the road from you in Floyd county.
Billy

 

[Harrygoodwrench]

Greetings guys, Now you guys are down in Va which is much kinder in the temperture range that we get up in upstate NY.
I had the same slow response in cold temps also, took a 4-5 minute engine run(in temps below 50 degrees) to get the hydraulics to respond well.
Well, I did a drain, clean filter screen (no debris in mine) and changed to AW-32 hydraulic oil. Works great now and no lazy operation when cold or hot. I think I paid 18 or 20 bucks for a 5 gal pail.
I think that china hydro oil is 30w engine oil, just too thick.

 

[SevenCorners]

Well thats helpful to know, I think I will give it a change tomorrow. A couple of questions though. When you changed and cleaned the filter oil how did you "bleed" the system? Where did you pour in the oil? I have a red cap ocated behind the seat that looks like a filler tube, is this the right spot? How many gallons of Kerosen did you use to flush the system, I hate to use Kerosen since it is so gosh darn expensive.
My family is from the Roanoke area, I still have an Aunt there. Great place a shame all the jobs left. I would like to live there today except Charlottesville is such a nice place. Go Hoos. They play Clemson tonight on ESPN.

 

[greg_g]

No bleeding involved. Follow THESE DIRECTIONS to clean/replace the filter. Hydraulic drain plug is the odd hex on the rear of the reservior. Drain hydraulic reservior, flush with kerosene. If kerosene isn't available, diesel fuel is an acceptable alternative. Hydraulic capacity is 9 liters, but you won't get that much out the first time. Flush with at least 2 gallons of kerosene/diesel.

Yes, you correctly identified the fill point. Under that hex cap is the dip stick.

Start the tractor and exercise the hydraulics for about 5 minutes, to circulate the kerosene through the system. Stop tractor and drain. Warning; kerosene will flush out residual Chinese oil, so you're going to get more OUT than you put in. Flush again with CLEAN kerosene/diesel, operate hydraulics, drain, refill with AW-32 (or hydraulic fluid of your choice).

//greg//

 

[ToolManRick]

I too have an incline, of which I've worked a new path to avoid, and it caused hydraulic oil to come out the breather/filler. I modified the breather basically by cutting it off the filler plug and brazing an extension tube, about 3" long or however long I could make it but still clear the seat, in between the plug and the breather. No more spills. I have yet to clean the filter but will do so as the hours get to that point.

 

[mark1]

Hi..Also if you raise the loader (Block it up.)drain the fluids,then lower the loader without the engine running you will also get more oil out.as the pump is not running to push oil into the opposite side of the loader cylinders. another thing to remember is that if the loader is up and you lower it after turning the engine off,you will overflow the hyd.tank as no oil is removed to fill the opposite side of the cylinders by the pump.(At least on the China loaders anyhow) as they have no "float position".

 

[SevenCorners]

Thanks all, I went out today and changed the hydraulic fluid. Wow was I glad I did it. The consistency of the oil was very similar to very blond coffee. If you saw it in a cup you might take a drink! I flushed about 2 gallons of diesel after the first drain. The second drain I got a little more fluid. I filled it up with 9.5 Qts, I think it was too much because it is presently coming out of the overflow tube, some of the old fluid must still be in the system.
While seeing how poor the hydraulic fluid was I decided to change the trans fluid. The trans fluid was even thinner than the hydraulic fluid. It was more like fuel oil than lubricating oil. I am planning on getting some 85wt oil from Autozone tomorrow. Is 90wt too thick? My manual says I need 15qts.

 

[Harrygoodwrench]

Seven, there is much debate on what oil to use in the trans and front diff. All I can say is I use 85w90. No problems so far anyways. My philosophy is gears need a good heavy oil. Its my choice and not an endorsement on what to use.
Mark1 brought up a very good point about lowering the FEL with engine off. I have a Koyker and it did the same thing twice if I had engine off and just pulled handle to drop FEL. Drove me crazy, come to find out if I use float to lower it with engine off there is no spewing. Its like Mark said there is no displacing of fluid to other side of double action piston and it goes into the resevior thus overfilling it and then dumps some out breather. So I guess both brands this can happen to but if you have float and use that to lower with engine off there is no problem.

 

[SevenCorners]

Harry, I did not want to start an oil debate, You gave me just the advice I was looking for, they need a heavy weight oil....

Thanks

 

[greg_g]

Harry's absolutely correct; gear oil for this transmission and front diff. I experimented with 80W140, but found it too thick to pass through the bearing sleeves. When I flushed and replaced it with 80W90, I learned my lesson in non-foaming gear oils. The stuff I bought - wasn't ! And bubbles don't lubricate wortha crap.

Morale of the story is, non-foaming 80W140 in the front diff if you don't use the tractor in cold weather. Non-foaming 80W90 if you use it year-round in colder climates. Non-foaming 80W90 in the transmssion in most climates.

I'm a bit late, but will be doing the 50 hour fluid change on my KAMA soon. I wanted to use 80W90 Spirax EW, but nobody around here carries it. I'm going to use 80W90 Spirax HD instead, front diff and tranny.

//greg//

 

[SevenCorners]

Well I put in new non-foaming 80w90 in the tranny as Greg recommended. It really quited it down, no more loud gear whine. The 3pt is raising and lowering immediatly upon startup. Very easy change I would recommend it to anyone who has not already done it.
I bought an oil filler tude at Autozone that screws onto the nipple of a 5 gallon oil can. It made it very easy to stick it into the transmission filler hole. I turned the 5 gallon bucket upside down and rested it on the seat. The oil took a good 30 minutes to fill but I didn't spill any.

 

[greg_g]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Well I put in new non-foaming 80w90 in the tranny as Greg recommended. It really quited it down, no more loud gear whine. The 3pt is raising and lowering immediatly upon startup. )</font>
The two are actually unrelated. Unlike a lot of grey market tractors, your Jinma tranny and hydraulics don't share. You already know where the gear oil goes. 80W90 gear oil viscosity is roughly the equivalent of 20W40 motor oil viscosity.

The hydraulics reservior is completely separate, the fill point being under the seat back. For that I recommend AW32, which is roughly a 10 weight equivalent.

 

[RICHARDG]

OILS,HUM,,,I use 40 weight nondetergent in trans and in front end,,,used 30 weight in trans and front end first year,,,no problems in over 300 hrs of WORK. Northern recommends using what I am useing,,,so,,,,
My hydro has a dipstick,,you don't need to guess if you got it overfilled,,,don't yours? thingy

 

[Soundguy]

A question about the differences between the nortrac and the other variants of the jinma.

I see lots of discussion baout basically having to do quite a bit of servicing of the oils, etc.. from the 'lower' priced dealers.. etc.. Is all this necescary from the slightly higher priced dealers.. like nortrac, etc. ( are they taking care of some of the 'first-flush' issues, etc before the user gets the tractor?

Soundguy

 

[ToolManRick]

Hi Soundguy. I can answer pertaining to the Nortrac, since that's what I've got. The fluids in mine were fresh, however I think one of their recommendations is overkill and that's greasing all fittings every 10 hours of use. Pretty sure they're taking precaution to prevent warranty issues. I don't have my manual handy at the moment, but most services seemed reasonable. I can be more specific if you'd like once I'm back at the house.

 

[Soundguy]

Thanks for the info. I usually grease my tractor in the morning before I go out and use it.. so mine actually gets greased more often than 10 hrs.

Soundguy

 

[SPIKER]

I grease mine probably at or less than the 10 hr mark too: usually cause I have lots of grease guns handy, also cause I WORK on machinery all the time and KNOW that the grease does not do a lot but putting new in and getting the old encrusted grease out & away is what makes them live nice & long lives. I still haven't FIXED my dirt seal felt on the front end so maybe I shouldn't say much more /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif anyhwo the FEL and HOE gets lubbed more than say the brake piviot. and clutch gets more than brake and steering gets mosty a quick shot with a tank or two of fuel as I keep FEL on 100% of time. not to mention the fact I can't fugure out for the life of me how that dang FEL support rod/pipe is susposed to work! lol /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif I will be changing my OIL in the small engines soon though. anyone have a thought as to how SOON you can go to 100% synthetic for say a small briggs single cyl 6hp mower engine? it has maybe 10hrs total run time on it so just getting broke in.

Mark m

 

[RICHARDG]

Grease mine every 50 hrs or so,so far,,use good grease,,,now ifin I had a hoe or front end loader,,would grease more often,,those two things anyways...can't see why you would need to grease every thing every 10 hrs or less,,overkill,,,and messy hands,,,know what I mean? Is 40 weight[or 30 weight for that matter]as good as gear oil? Well,you just heard it,,it seems some of the heavier gear oils don't work,,and some foam,,so,yeah maybe so. Don't know what the flushing would have to do with what kind of oil you use in trans or front end,,,maybe you could enlighten us sound person? thingy

 

[Soundguy]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( what kind of oil you use in trans or front end,,,maybe you could enlighten us sound person? thingy )</font>

I think you've got my name mixed up with someone elses post. I wasin't discussing different weight oils / front / rear / foaming issues.. was someone else.
/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
Soundguy