HST or NOT ?

[4shorts]

To those who have the HST's. How fast do they back up? If I were plowing half my time is going in reverse so I wouldn't want the thing to be really slow. Thanks again. Paul

 

[Charlesaf3]

can't say for sure since I don't have a kioti, but I'd be surprised if they were any different - my HST goes just as fast in reverse as forward. I end up doing a lot of stuff in reverse actually.

 

[Lloyd_E]

Hi Paul,

OK now I am jealous - nice trailer and gear.

Yes, you have to clutch to change forward or reverse and to change from Hi Med and Low range - actually you must be stopped to do these two things re: manual.

It goes just as fast in forward and reverse.

I have found my sweet spots for the work I do; moving manure and dumping it, moving firewood etc. Hi range, 1 and 3 gear; Med range 2nd and 3rd gear and occasionally low range, 2nd gear - in this setting I could walk faster!

After the first 4 hours I didn't notice the clutch too much...of course my left leg is slightly larger now!

markr may be right depending on what you are running extra for gear.
I was told that you loose about 3-5 hp from HST set up.

My brother-in-law is a heavy equipment mech and his experience is that it is more expensive to work on HST units than regular clutch units. I guess for the convenience of HST there is more mechanically stuff involved and possible more to go wrong - maybe.

But markr is correct re: the cab. And knowing the snow you get on the rock I would want the cab over the HST.

My last trip there was about 12 years ago - picking up marine make'break engines. One day I will build a boat around the 7HP Atlantic I have.

Are you going to get a snow blower for the rear?

Keep us posted.

Lloyd

 

[Reg]

NOT.

It only takes a LITTLE coordination and very little strength/effort to operate a clutch. Not much more to it and loader controls.

With a gear tractor you can also know your ground speed, which just might matter if you get around to doing any spreading or spraying work.
B'sides price, simplicity/complexity, reliability, power loss, all of which (& many others) we have beaten WAY beyond death several times.

 

[JerryG]

Power Shuttles have wet clutches, so you don't have worry about clutch wear. When going back and forth from forward to reverse with a Power Shuttle you don't have to use the clutch. You can also start without the clutch.
With a DynaQPS which is a Power Shuttle and a Power Shift in one, you don't have to clutch to shift gears or to change directions.

 

[4shorts]

Some interesting things on here. We were talking to the Kioti dealer this morning and he faxed us a Bulletin dated 07-24-08 announcing the New DK SEH Premium Cab series. It has th Cab, HST and 45 HP along with other cool things like 3 cup holders Wow you know that's the tractor for me? It will be three months before we see it around these parts. I may try the Shuttle shift today to see if it would work for my snow clearing needs. Thought you might find this info interesting. Paul

 

[mark.r]

To those who have the HST's. How fast do they back up? If I were plowing half my time is going in reverse so I wouldn't want the thing to be really slow. Thanks again. Paul

Faster than you can safetly go in a plowed field . . .

I'd put my HST against any Kioti gear tractor in the same power category for any of the task that I have seen any of you guys doing on this board. I'm sure Island Tractor would say the same thing. HST's are getting the same "trial by fire" that automatic tranny automobiles got when they first came out. These days no one thinks twice about buying an auto tranny car except a few diehards or those who want a manual for a specialty application. Can I drive a shuttle shift or traditional manual tractor. You bet and have done so before. But why should I? For what I do around my small farm the 45hp HST does everything that I have asked it without a hint of holding back. I am still waiting for a good explanation as to why he should by a shuttle tractor. So he is going to do a little bit a plowing? It wasn't mentioned in his first post that he WAS going to be plowing or doing any heavy ground work. And even if he wants to plow a few acres the DK45SE can't handle a small plow or 6 or 7ft. disk??? It's not like he is running a beef farm. So again give me a good reason why he should be buy a gear tractor over the HST? If it is preference well then there is not much I can say about that other than no one will ever change that persons mind about clutches, maintain., etc. That's just your loss on not trying something new. But technology has come along way and there are lots a HST's out there and they seem to be holding up just fine.

Now specifically DK45s vs. DK45SE, yes the "S" is rated at 38 vs. 36 PTO hp I believe so there is some loss in that regard. So I may have mis-understood the original statement. That said, I am not mistaken the hydro pumps on the HST are larger as far GPM. Someone may need to check me on that though. I also think Lloyd is correct from an internal maintain. aspect. If something does go wrong HST it will (should) be more expensive to fix. But what can you say, it's the same issue we all deal with in cars . . . auto vs. manual. Same as larger tractors: power shuttles vs. shuttle shifts. I hear the same arguement in the AG forum for and against all the new electronics in tractors. It's just the evolution of the world.

I'm sure my post comes off as spiteful. That's not my goal. But more than once new members have come on and ask for advice and "traditionalists" have kind of leaned on HST pretty hard using the argument that it may not hold up to the pressures of the work put on these machines. Well as I said before, I have yet to see anyone in this forum really putting their tractors through any serious torture test that would be considered over and beyond the call of duty were HST would be in danger of failing. When some one starts farming for a living or running full time landscaping business daily with some HST units than I will be impressed and may just flat out say you may want to look at shuttle or power shift machines.

We are seriously looking at putting up some hay. In order to do this I have to buy a new tractor, a larger one to run the mower and baler. As for raking and running a tedder do you think I have any reservations about using the 45HST to do that? Do you think I have any reservation about buying a second 6ft. disc mower as a back up to the main mower to run the DK? Not a one. Darn, I'll even hook up the square baler to the 45 and run it if I have to get hay up. It may rock me to death but I'll bet you it'll get it done.

I think everyone, especially the buyer, needs to be sensible about what you are buying your tractor to do. Do you really think a 45HST can't plow snow effectively while on the other hand it has no problem moving 1800lb.+ round bales or will spin all 4 wheels while pulling a 7ft. rear blade through a stall full of muck. Just think a little . . .

 

[4shorts]

Hey Mark.R
I don't think your being spiteful. I think you've made some great points and I really enjoyed reading it and thanks for taking the time to do so. I remember back years ago when I started operation heavy equipment. Some of the old guys would say they hated hydraulics and they loved the old cable hoist.

I was horrified to hear someone say that. The more goodies that came out on the equipment the more I enjoyed using it. Right now it looks like I'm going to hold out and wait for the new DK SEH Premium Series and go for the 45 hp model. Gee's if my old GMC 4X4 pushed the same area for 13 years that tractor should be able to handle it. I don't need the snow blower. There's lots of room to push the white stuff but I may add a backhoe in the spring just to to play with.

Hey Lloyd. My son was out in Halifax for four years in the Navy. He was on the HMCS Halifax but he just got posted in Newfoundland in Corner Brook so he's a little closer to us now. I was looking at the pictures you posted on your tractor. I drooled all over the keyboard and the wife got mad with me. Great pics and glad to see your getting those few issues worked out. Paul

 

[mark.r]

Hey Mark.R
I don't think your being spiteful. I think you've made some great points and I really enjoyed reading it and thanks for taking the time to do so. I remember back years ago when I started operation heavy equipment. Some of the old guys would say they hated hydraulics and they loved the old cable hoist.

I was horrified to hear someone say that. The more goodies that came out on the equipment the more I enjoyed using it. Right now it looks like I'm going to hold out and wait for the new DK SEH Premium Series and go for the 45 hp model. Gee's if my old GMC 4X4 pushed the same area for 13 years that tractor should be able to handle it. I don't need the snow blower. There's lots of room to push the white stuff but I may add a backhoe in the spring just to to play with.

Hey Lloyd. My son was out in Halifax for four years in the Navy. He was on the HMCS Halifax but he just got posted in Newfoundland in Corner Brook so he's a little closer to us now. I was looking at the pictures you posted on your tractor. I drooled all over the keyboard and the wife got mad with me. Great pics and glad to see your getting those few issues worked out. Paul

I'm glad you see it that way. I would probably have got that model too had they offered it at the time. The way I see it is, if you want a gear modeled tractor because you simply like them. Great, have at it. But don't be fooled into thinking that you HAVE to have a shuttle shift/tractor because a few people say that the other option "may" let you down. I don't need the next guy to tell me that the other option "may" let me down. That's a given. I have to put my faith in a manufact., whichever that maybe, that their product is solid enough to do what it is advertised to do. Now, I would be at fault if I go out and attempted to use my HST to do something that it wasn't design for. Maybe it would work for a short time but chances are it WOULD wear out much quicker than it should and then everyone could say "hey, I told you so". But with 99% of us being part time users, we are fortunate to have two options in the 45hp and under category just like we do when we buy are automobiles. We should not have to worry about which of the two 45hp tractors can push more snow or drag more dirt than the other because in the very end I'd be willing to put my $5 on the fact that in our day to day uses, we'd see very little (if any) differences.

 

[KiotiDave]

Hi,
In my opinion if you are considering a 40 to 45HP tractor you will be hard pressed to find a significant difference between the shuttle and HST. The only obvious difference is the immediate power of a direct drive/gear transmission when the clutch is engaged. Just like a truck...you let out the clutch, you move immediately. With an automatic there is an ever so slight delay while the pressure is built up to drive the wheels. It actually seems like it is also immediate. The 4 cylinder tractors have plenty of power for a hydro transmission.
Less wear and tear on the HST as everything is driven by fluid. It costs a little more but you have an infinite number of ground speeds in every range.
If you have to sell or trade it, there is usually an add in value for an HST.
You have to buy an extra filter at service time, but the quicker direction changes and ease of use will make you more productive.
Hope this helps,
KiotiDave

 

[Charlesaf3]

I think Mark R and kiotidave above are speaking a lot of sense.

I know a lot of landscapers who run their HST hard every day who never have problems.

Neil Messick claims, as I recall, HSTs need less repairing, and messicks repairs a LOT of tractors.

There are some applications (tillage) where Gear is definitely superior. But I thought everyone agreed HST was better for loader work.

HST does have a little power loss, but in most cases, like the tractor you are looking at, it won't matter.

 

[Lloyd_E]

Paul,

Since my Cab tractor came with no cup holders (or horn!!!) can I buy one of your three cup holders when you get your tractor?

My main reason for buying the shuttle unit is that it came with a cab and the cab version of the HST was not on the radar for my dealer. One of the unfortunate aspects of living where Paul and I do is we do not have a lot of dealers/stock and options to choose from.

And in the end it does come down to the purchaser: what he can afford, can get and is comfortable with.

And the difference between HST and shuttle, time wise, is minimal. Hopefully we are not in that big of a hurry.

In the style of NFLD: (this is meant to be funny - only newfoundlanders will get it and their distant relatives - I can say this because I do have some NFLD blood.
"HST stands for: Heavy Snow Threat" and the rock would be a good place to test out the new 45 HST cab. In fact I think they should give one to Paul for a trial period and a little RD.

How many yards of snow did you get last winter Paul? Yes folks were are talking yards...not inches or feet!



Lloyd

 

[curly]

I came into tractors a year or so ago with absolutely no experience. And I agonized over HST vs non-HST for weeks and weeks until I finally found a used DK55 at I good price. So I bought it! Since I really don't know what HST is like, I've not missed it.

But I've not heard any complaints from either side of that fence...as the HST'ers love their HST and the non-HST'ers love their clutch and gears. It may be one of those deals where you subconsciously know you better love it cause you spent a pretty penny for it, whichever way you went. The more people you get to go the way you went, the better justified you are that you went the right way. Almost as bad as the green vs orange kinda thing ain't it

 

[4shorts]

Paul,

Since my Cab tractor came with no cup holders (or horn!!!) can I buy one of your three cup holders when you get your tractor?

In the style of NFLD: (this is meant to be funny - only newfoundlanders will get it and their distant relatives - I can say this because I do have some NFLD blood.
"HST stands for: Heavy Snow Threat" and the rock would be a good place to test out the new 45 HST cab. In fact I think they should give one to Paul for a trial period and a little RD.

How many yards of snow did you get last winter Paul? Yes folks were are talking yards...not inches or feet!



Lloyd

Hey Lloyd not a problem on a cup holder. I get one out to you Gawd three cup holders! I figured one for a Bud. One for a Coke and the other for a Tim's coffee. You would think they would have put a GPS in it

Man we get lots of snow here. There was so much snow here last winter the bunnie rabbits had to bend there ears to get under the hydro wires and it was so cold the wood horse's tried to get in the shed.

Actually one morning we had so much snow I went out to the plow truck and I couldn't see it. I said to the wife "You need a friggen sense of humor just to live here".

Wonder what a snowblower is worth for these tractors? do they work good? Man I got to say. I've been on all kinds of sites like the GoldWing sites. I restore old gas pumps, Coca Cola items and vintage motorcycles but I've never seen a site where you could learn as much as I've learned so much so fast. All great posts. Thanks. Paul

 

[mark.r]

I just hope you get a tractor that makes you happy . . . pictures of course will be a requirement.

 

[4shorts]

I just hope you get a tractor that makes you happy . . . pictures of course will be a requirement.

Mark I've desided to get the Kioti DK SEH Premium Cab Series in a 45 HP. The dealer seems good to deal with. He said today it's a new model with HST and he won't see it here until late Sept but I'll be sure to post pictures for sure. Right now I'm restoring an old Toyota forklift I just bought so that should keep me busy until the tractor gets here. If you like looking at pictures you can click on the link I've included. Basically everything there I've restored from Miller trailers to old gas pumps and some Coca Cola stuff. The truck in the picture is the 1993 GMC that I've used sinse new to plow with. Still has the orginal paint. Thanks, Paul

Flickr: hondadudecanada's Photostream

 

[mark.r]

Mark I've desided to get the Kioti DK SEH Premium Cab Series in a 45 HP. The dealer seems good to deal with. He said today it's a new model with HST and he won't see it here until late Sept but I'll be sure to post pictures for sure. Right now I'm restoring an old Toyota forklift I just bought so that should keep me busy until the tractor gets here. If you like looking at pictures you can click on the link I've included. Basically everything there I've restored from Miller trailers to old gas pumps and some Coca Cola stuff. The truck in the picture is the 1993 GMC that I've used sinse new to plow with. Still has the orginal paint. Thanks, Paul

Flickr: hondadudecanada's Photostream

That should suit you well. You should be one of the first to have one.

 

[Lloyd_E]

Paul,

A 72" blower with hydraulic shoot should run you around $2800-$3100.
Of course shipping to NFLD may add a little more! My unit, which is in transit - not that I need it soon - is a meteor 72" with hydraulic remote for the shoot. I looked at Pronovost but dealer thought Meteor was as good for less of a price so I took his recommendation.

I've been snow blowing a 1500' lane with a 30" 10.5 hp MTd, 5 passes, so anything is an improvement. I hate to say this - it has been hot and humid which is rare here - BUT I can't wait for the snow !!!

Does the new unit come with a horn. I know the DK35 HST does - can't figure why the DK 45 with cab doesn't. I will probably wire one in.

Good luck and send pics before, during and after the snow.

Lloyd

 

[contdevelop]

AMEN Mark R!!

HST is the way of the future!!!

Debate closed.

 

[Charlesaf3]

Weird that horns are so rare on tractors - my b3030 doesn't have one, though the M59 does. But they are so useful they should be on every tractor to my mind.

So should clocks, which also seem to be rare.