HST or NOT ?

[4shorts]

Hi Everyone I'm new to this site. I'm located in Newfoundland, Canada
I have a question that I'm sure someone would be able to help me with.
I'm thinking about buying a Kioti tractor for the main use of snow clearing.

I have a 500 ft driveway & also have two small parking lots that I do for others.
I have been using my GMC 4x4 pick up for the past 13 yrs to do all three lots with and it's worked very well but I thought a small tractor would help me control where I placed the snow so that's where I am so far.
The two model tractors that I'm considering are DK45S or DK45SE HST.
My question is this, For snow removal is it better to have HST or Not?

Dealer informs me the HST system not good for snow clearing because he says it would be better shifting gears manually as opposed to having the HST machine shift for you. I would think it would be the opposite. I could see it if I were plowing a field and working the machine under a load but for snow clearing I would have thought the HST would work great but I stand to be corrected on my way of thinking.

I haven't priced the HST model yet but the DK45S sells for $38'000 plus tax with loader. In Canada all manufactures also require a 25% down payment which I though strange but everyone around here selling these tractors require the same down payment. Your thoughts on both units would be greatly appreciated and look forward to hearing from you all. Great site! Cheers, Paul

 

[Gator6x4]

Hi Everyone I'm new to this site. I'm located in Newfoundland, Canada
I have a question that I'm sure someone would be able to help me with.
I'm thinking about buying a Kioti tractor for the main use of snow clearing.

I have a 500 ft driveway & also have two small parking lots that I do for others.
I have been using my GMC 4x4 pick up for the past 13 yrs to do all three lots with and it's worked very well but I thought a small tractor would help me control where I placed the snow so that's where I am so far.
The two model tractors that I'm considering are DK45S or DK45SE HST.
My question is this, For snow removal is it better to have HST or Not?

Dealer informs me the HST system not good for snow clearing because he says it would be better shifting gears manually as opposed to having the HST machine shift for you. I would think it would be the opposite. I could see it if I were plowing a field and working the machine under a load but for snow clearing I would have thought the HST would work great but I stand to be corrected on my way of thinking.

I haven't priced the HST model yet but the DK45S sells for $38'000 plus tax with loader. In Canada all manufactures also require a 25% down payment which I though strange but everyone around here selling these tractors require the same down payment. Your thoughts on both units would be greatly appreciated and look forward to hearing from you all. Great site! Cheers, Paul

I like the HST because, I feel it gives more finesse control for repetitive functions, forward and backward movement in a restricted area likely to be encountered in snow removal. The Dealer is pushing gear because this is probably what he has on the lot at this time. I think you need to drive both a gear and a HST and simulate the intended movements during snow removal before finalizing your purchase. Once purchased, "It's Yours?

 

[Gittyup]

HST will work better for you. Though, I don't think you need that much tractor. A smaller one would might work better in the parking lots. Get A QA loader. Then you can put a plow on the front and blower on the back, or visa versa.

 

[Wombat125]

Paul,
If you do a quick search of this site, you will find years worth of (sometimes heated) debates on the merits of hydro versus gear drives.

Both have their theoretical weaknesses. Hydro doesn't like too much driveline heat or gunked up filters. Gear doesn't like clutch abuse. But for any owner with half a brain and a little maintenance, they should both last many years.

In your specific case I heard:

• Snow removal is primary task
• Relatively new to tractoring

In my opinion, this seems like a clear cut case for HST. It is an intuitive system with a high tolerance for repetitive forward/reverse cycles.

 

[mark.r]

Oh boy, here we go again.

 

[actionaj]

Go with the HST you won't regret it. For going back and forth for snow removal with a gear drive, just think how many times you will have to push the cluch in and then select a gear. At least have shuttle shift if you go with a gear drive.

 

[mark.r]

Dealer informs me the HST system not good for snow clearing because he says it would be better shifting gears manually as opposed to having the HST machine shift for you.

I'd flat out ask him why? I'll go on record and say that until he gives you a reason and even then I'd probably tell him to go jump out of an window.

 

[4shorts]

Thanks guys. Some great views here and I'm taking it all in. As for maintenance. Well we operate our owe repair shop here so that's not a problem and I understand they all need maintenance.

As for actual tractor time I don't have much accumulated. That's in farm tractors. I used to operate heavy equipment and accumulated over 20.000 hours doing so. I just can't imagine having to shift gears each time I go to move the beast.

With the prices of these things now I wonder if I'm not better of looking for a good 4X4 backhoe. I'l keep watching here to see what everyone has to say and I'll be heading in to have a little chat with the salesman and I'll let you know what he has to say. Thanks for your input. Paul

 

[jelc]

I recently had to make the same decision. I was looking at getting my first tractor.

The gear tractor was cheaper, and I have been driving manual transmission vehicles for over 40 years, so I was confident I could cope with a gear tractor. However, I bought the HST because the dealer convinced me it would be easier to operate a loader with HST. The tractor I bought has a cruise control, so the advantage a gear tractor may have in the extensive mowing I do was negated. I also was told the HST would be easier to resell, and most likley fetch a better resale value.

The tractor came with a loader, and I bought a rear blade (for grading and snow removal), a post hole digger with 9" auger, an a Howse 5" rotary mower with slip clutch. I only used the loader (only to carry stuff around the lot) and the rotary cutter so far. As a novice, I found I have to concentrate on making sure I don't clip trees with the loader (yes, I know I could take it off!), and I found a surprising number of places where I had to go in and back up while mowing or using the loader - I am sure glad I bought the HST now, as I could concentrate on the job at hand without even thinking of changing gears, clutching, etc!

If I lived on a open lot with few or no trees and snow, I might have gone for the gear tractor... but with 9 acres, 4 of which are very heavily treed, and a 1200 feet driveway I will have to clear of snow, I am sure glad I bought the HST.

JLC in colorado
Kioti CK35 HST

 

[GeneD14]

I have personally moved many tons of snow with both gear drive and a hydro drive tractor when we lived in MI for 11 years. Hands down the hydro is the one I prefer because of the quick cycling from forward to reverse. After pushing the clutch in a few hundred times a day my knee was on fire when I'd use the gear tractor. When using the hydro in extremely cold weather the sythetic hy-tran fluid worked better than the cheaper organic based oils. The synthetic would flow better, was less jerky, and I wouldn't have to wait as long to warm up the machine.

 

[4shorts]

Hi All,

Just talked to the salesman at the Kioti dealer and inquired about getting a DK HST model with factory cab and was informed that HST wasn't available in any Kioti models with factory cab.

If I wanted one with a cab I would have to buy the DK45S without HST or buy after market cab or another manufacture of course.
I was surprised that Kioti didn't make a model with HST and factory cab.
It appears the only model Kioti has with factory cab is the DK45S. I was also surprised to see a AM/FM cassette in the cab. Man a Cassette! Just as well they included an 8 track! Can you still buy cassette's?

Paul

 

[mark.r]

Hi All,

Just talked to the salesman at the Kioti dealer and inquired about getting a DK HST model with factory cab and was informed that HST wasn't available in any Kioti models with factory cab.

If I wanted one with a cab I would have to buy the DK45S without HST or buy after market cab or another manufacture of course.
I was surprised that Kioti didn't make a model with HST and factory cab.
It appears the only model Kioti has with factory cab is the DK45S. I was also surprised to see a AM/FM cassette in the cab. Man a Cassette! Just as well they included an 8 track! Can you still buy cassette's?

Paul

This is true . . . although it said that a HST DK45SE is on the horizon but not yet officially confirmed yet. If you want a factory cab you will need to go shuttle shift or a different manufact.

 

[Charlesaf3]

For snow I think everyone would agree that HST is far superior. For plowing pr ground work its probably gear.

If my main thing was snow work, HST and a factory cab would be essential for me.

 

[Gittyup]

Cassettes are great if you use an Ipod or other type of MP3 player. The cassette adapters are way better than FM modulators. So, I see it as a plus. CD's and dusty/dirty tractors don't mix too well anyway.

I definitely would not forgo the HST just to get a factory cab. There are some good after market cabs out there. Or consider a different model/make that will give you both.

I looked at a JD 3720 (I think that's the right model) HST with factory cab the other day. What a sweet tractor that is. Loved the short wheel base on the thing; nice and compact. It didn't even have a radio of any type though. Of course, JD's usually cost more.

 

[kentrodngun]

I'm going to swim against the tide here folks. I don't think a tractor can beat a good 4x4 with a plow. Cheaper, warmer, stronger, CD friendly and much, much faster.

If you really want a tractor and can use it for other things then by all means, buy it. If it's just for snow removal and you're used to a truck with plow, I think you'll be disappointed.

A tractor with a front blade and a snow blower on the back is ideal for situations where you don't have a lot of room or terrain that will allow you to push the white stuff back a ways to get ready for the next storm. I don't know if this is your case, but I suspect not as you've been doing it with your truck for a while. What exactly is leaning you towards a tractor?

Don't get me wrong, I use my tractor to remove my snow. I have a back blade and move the piles as needed with my loader but the guys with the trucks kick my butt in terms of time spent clearing it out. And in their case (maybe yours too) Time is money!

 

[Charlesaf3]

I assume the tractor is in addition to the plow truck. No doubt the plow truck seems to be preferred by most plow guys, but its nice to have a front end loader/blower for tight parking lots

 

[KB9UDE]

Cassettes are great if you use an Ipod or other type of MP3 player. The cassette adapters are way better than FM modulators. So, I see it as a plus. CD's and dusty/dirty tractors don't mix too well anyway.

I definitely would not forgo the HST just to get a factory cab. There are some good after market cabs out there. Or consider a different model/make that will give you both.

I looked at a JD 3720 (I think that's the right model) HST with factory cab the other day. What a sweet tractor that is. Loved the short wheel base on the thing; nice and compact. It didn't even have a radio of any type though. Of course, JD's usually cost more.

If you buy the Deere it will be clean inside the cab

 

[Lloyd_E]

Hi Paul,

I just bought a 45s - shuttle shift. I have about 7 hours experience on this unit and many on an old cockshutt.

I heard the HST will rob HP and if you are planning on using 3pt / hydraulic attachments this may be something to consider.

The AC uses a bit of HP as well or at least revs the engine more when turned on - you probably won't need the AC in NFLD - !!

I wish it was snowing now (NOT) so I could try my 6' rear blower.

Also, HST are more to repair - so I hear.

Good luck...

I gave a 10% deposit for my purchase.

Lloyd

 

[4shorts]

Hi Paul,

I just bought a 45s - shuttle shift. I have about 7 hours experience on this unit and many on an old cockshutt.

I heard the HST will rob HP and if you are planning on using 3pt / hydraulic attachments this may be something to consider.

The AC uses a bit of HP as well or at least revs the engine more when turned on - you probably won't need the AC in NFLD - !!

I wish it was snowing now (NOT) so I could try my 6' rear blower.

Also, HST are more to repair - so I hear.

Good luck...

I gave a 10% deposit for my purchase.

Lloyd

Hey Lloyd congrats on the new tractor. I bet your going to put many smiles on that one for sure. I was looking at one like yours tonight at the dealer. Do you have to clutch that thing all the time to go from forward to rev? Really nice looking cab on it as well. Does it back up fast?

I don't want anything to slow for clearing a parking lot but I know it won't beat a plow truck. I was actually think about adapting my angle blade to the bucket as it is on the truck and just pull a few pins to disconnect and use the bucket.

I'm kind of into everything from machining to auto repairs. Just completed a custom trailer for a new Miller welding machine I just bought. Hang out on a number for forums but I have to say this is one of the best I've ever been on. Everyone is so helpful. Thanks everyone for your input. Paul

Have a look at my trailer if your interested!


New trailer for the Trailblazer - WeldingWeb - Welding forum for pros and enthusiasts

 

[mark.r]

You will not have any hydraulic related issues with a DK45SE HST as far as the hydrostatic tranny robbing power from the working end of the machine. There really is being too much made of this debate between HST vs. Gear in this situation. Either one will work fine. Cab vs. no cab seem more important in this situation.