How much do you care about pre emissions

[5030]

Additionally, I read on here about owners that have selective catalytic reduction units on their tractors and I'm here to tell you that a failed or malfunctioning DEF dosing unit on a big truck stinks terrible. It's worse smelling than any diesel exhaust could ever hope to be and truck drivers, especially owner operators are like tractor owners, they want to put off the regen as long as possible, so the SCR unit gets loaded up with unburned soot and the engine derates and then it's shop time and a big bill. Caterpillar was smart, they couldn't meet the T4 emissions mandates so they quit producing on road diesel engines. Cat does off a vocational truck but it's not powered by a Cat engine. I believe it has a Cummins engine in it. I remember the last Cats that were on road engines. They had compound turbocharging and one of the turbo's was gear driven plus they had what was called a 'furnace' on the engine that was basically a chamber that burned off the soot and was ignited with a spark plug. That didn't last very long. The engine was very breakdown prone.

Detroit Diesel also tried the gear driven compound turbocharging set up that didn't last either. Detroit Diesel's big issue was hard carbon build up in the intake runner. I presume it's all been worked out as I haven't been there for many years. I remember DDEC engines sitting in the shop on engine stands waiting to go back to Detroit Diesel to get rebuilt. It was cheaper for them to just install a reman engine. We had a steady turn around of engines for a while.

I was never fond of DDEC engines versus the mechanically injected Cats. DDEC engines never had the torque rise the big Cats had and they weren't all that efficient far as fuel consumption was concerned either and fuel is a big concern with a big truck and overheads.

I happen to own a 3406 B model Cat in a Western Star double bunk that I haul grain with. it has a 13 double over on 373 rears. It's a hundred mile an hour truck that never goes very far. All New Way air ride too, except the front axle and it smokes as well. Leads an easy life now. Was a fleet truck for the outfit I retired from. My retirement toy.

 

[ultrarunner]

May not have the option if you are in business because diesels of no tier or the wrong tier are legally being forced to leave the state or become yard art.

Emission equipped is fine by me provided reliability and longevity and low cost to own over the long haul criteria is met.

The problem I've seen in the automotive world is we in California test back to 1976 and parts are often hard or near impossible to come by especially when some of the older engines were built to meet California standards and not sold worldwide.

 

[dodge man]

Illinois does not do emissions checks everywhere. I’ve lived here my entire life and ever had one. The Chicago area does from what I know.

 

[2manyrocks]

I doubt that farm tractors used by most TBN members contribute much of anything to pollution in the first place, especially compared to tens of thousands of commuter vehicles sitting for hours in rush hour traffic every day. It's not uncommon for diesel tractors to last decades, but I don't know if the complexity of DPF systems will cause most of todays tractors to end up in the scrap yard prematurely.

 

[Runner]

BUT; for everyone saying to avoid anything with emissions, do you always cut the Cats off your car? No comparison, I've had an emission compliant car for 17 years it's never needed service and doesn't stop me in the middle of what I am doing so that it can do a regen.

Are you willing to pay today's market price, for a pre-cat vehicle? I would be to get what I want, i.e., a small hatchback with a MANUAL transmission that gets good mileage.

For the vast majority of folks, nobody is checking your car or tractor emissions, and your free to modify as you please; but most of us just replace the O2 sensor when it goes out. Where I live, they don't do emissions tests, but will beat you to death if they think you've modified your auto emissions system. I recently had a state inspection turned down by a Ford dealer because they thought I had removed the cat from my truck, even though it actually DID have a cat that THEY had installed the prior year.

Given the choice of equal price; would anyone choose a 10+ year old machine, over a brand new one, just because of emissions? Yes, if it was in good shape. Have been casually looking for a decent JD2720 to get a little more HP but still be able to use the same attachments. If my 2007 Toyota Yaris ever gives out or gets totalled, I would be looking for another one, or maybe a Honda Fit, neither of which are made anymore.

On most machines, there are ways to bypass the system, or delete it, and as long as you aren't a large commercial operation, who makes enemies, no one is going to hunt you down If I had a post emissions tractor, I would have no problem with bypassing/defeating the emissions system, if I thought I could do it without causing some kind of problem with the equipment.

Anyways; I wouldn't pay a premium to not have the system, wouldn't bypass or delete, Until a problem comes up; and if a problem with the system came up, I would happily delete or bypass and never loose any sleep I would pay DOUBLE the original asking price for a brand new, 1990 Honda Civic, if I could buy one. Probably would do the same for a brand new, 2007 JD2720.

I think I would go out of my cotton-picking mind if I had to put up with a tractor that stopped me in the middle of something, then sat there and ran a top speed for 20 minutes in the name of emissions control. I would rather cut my grass with a 1957 Farmall Cub.

 

[JeepHead]

I have seen AND HAD problems with the emission systems on my diesel trucks. When I bought my tractor, that was one thing I would have no part of. It was either buy new and 25HP or buy old. I bought the 25.

 

[Tomtint]

My experience with diesel emissions has not been good. Had a 2020 MB Sprinter 4x4 that had non stop EGR problems.. I just couldn't take it anymore and got rid of the van. Deleting it would have voided warranty and made it virtually impossible to get a yearly inspection in Mass. I also have a 2021 F450 Limited with the 6.7 power stroke..I love that truck and plan to keep it a very long time.. Once its out of warranty..If it becomes problematic with def/egr.. I will get it deleted and just skip inspections. Bought a Bobcat miniX last year and specifically got the one under 25HP to skip the emissions BS. This machine replaced a Kubota KX121 with 6K trouble free diesel hours. So yes.. Id buy a 10 year old machine provided condition was good over a new piece ..No hesitation.

 

[deserteagle71]

I think I would go out of my cotton-picking mind if I had to put up with a tractor that stopped me in the middle of something, then sat there and ran a top speed for 20 minutes in the name of emissions control.

I have experience only with a newer Kubota M7060 so I can't speak to all Tier IV tractors but I pretty much operate it the same as my 60 year old John Deere. Only difference is that whereas I might leave the old John Deere idling for a long time, I shut down the Kubota if I know I'll not be using it for a few minutes. Only way I know it is regenerating is when the light comes on in the dash. It stays on for about 15 minutes then goes out letting me know the regen procedure is done. While regen is going on I don't have to do a thing differently - just keep on working. I don't know of any tractor that makes you stop what you are doing and sit there running the engine at high rpm to do a regen procedure.

 

[ericm979]

I think I would go out of my cotton-picking mind if I had to put up with a tractor that stopped me in the middle of something, then sat there and ran a top speed for 20 minutes in the name of emissions control. I would rather cut my grass with a 1957 Farmall Cub.

Pretty much all diesels that do regens will do them while the vehicle is moving, if it's up to temperature. I think the only reason to do a parked regen is if the regular regens are disabled or are failing for some reason.

 

[dodge man]

I little off subject but somewhat relevant. My tractor is a 25 hp John Deere 2025r. No emissions system to speak of, no DPF, no EGR, no SCR, but it is different from the earlier 25 hp tractors. It’s about 1.25 liters, bigger than the earlier engines, it makes less torque but does make the same horsepower. I suspect there is a lot of room for more power out of the engine.

My previous tractor was a 900cc Kubota BX, it made 23 hp. I thought my current JD would feel quite a bit stronger but it feels exactly like it’s making 2 hp more. My point is even some of the larger displacement 25 hp engines are throttled back.

 

[2manyrocks]

While regen is going on I don't have to do a thing differently - just keep on working. I don't know of any tractor that makes you stop what you are doing and sit there running the engine at high rpm to do a regen procedure.

Doesn't matter if a regeneration happens while I'm mowing one of the flat fields so much, but it does make a difference if I am on a hillside slope and don't want the tractor thinking for itself when it comes to RPM.

 

[MarkMac]

Given the choice of equal price; would anyone choose a 10+ year old machine, over a brand new one, just because of emissions?

I’d buy a 10+ year old model if it were new. I wouldn’t pay new price for a 10 year old used tractor.

I bought a 25hp compact tractor specifically to avoid emissions. A 25hp does what I need, and twice a week I use it for 12 minutes total. That short duty cycle would likely wreak havoc to a modern emission system.

My 2018 Cummins I bought new has intact emissions, and it’s been flawless. But I pull either a 3-horse trailer or a tritoon boat on the weekend, usually 45 miles each way. It gets a good long duty cycle under steady load. I’ve never noticed a regen. It handles everything in the background while I have the cruise control set on the freeway. My Cummins has never been, nor will ever be, a daily driver or a grocery getter. I have other vehicles I use for short trips.

I think the key is to understand how the systems work and be true to your needs and anticipated usage.

 

[5030]

Illinois does not do emissions checks everywhere. I’ve lived here my entire life and ever had one. The Chicago area does from what I know.

I've gassed up when visiting my cousin in New Lennox and the gas station I fueled at actually had shrouds over the filler nozzles to catch the fumes and they were a PITA as well.

 

[5030]

Compact tractors have no place on this farm. Closest I come to that is the Kubota gas side by side I have my spray rig in and I pull the Tine harrow to set my alfalfa overseeding with in the spring. Nice thing about vernal alfalfa is it propagates naturally unlike Round Up ready alfalfa that spreads uncontrollably and cannot be eliminated.

 

[ultrarunner]

I've gassed up when visiting my cousin in New Lennox and the gas station I fueled at actually had shrouds over the filler nozzles to catch the fumes and they were a PITA as well.

I thought those are everywhere...?

Been standard here for decades... SF Bay Area.

 

[5030]

Not here in Michigan or none I've ever seen here, but then Michigan don't do emissions certifications to renew tags anyway. Most of the jalopies out here would never pass anyway. I constantly find lost auto parts and tools in the roadside ditches in front of the farm. People around here loose mufflers and Cats and just keep on driving. I even found a tire and rim once. Person was probably loaded and kept on trucking on the brake drum. Gravel / dirt roads take their toll when driven at warp speed. When I have to go anywhere, my top speed on the unpaved roads is 20 mph and if they want to go around me, I'm good with that. I even stop until the dust cloud dissipates. I drive my tractors at the same speed when traversing the roads to get to my off farm fields. They will top out at about 25 but 20 is my magic number. I collect ditch deposited beer cans as well. Here they have a 10 cent deposit on them and I've collected and redeemed hundreds of them over the years.

 

[newbury]

I'm definitely in the "Limit emissions" group. I grew up in the 60's and 70's in the Burlington, Vt. area. That was when smog started to hit.
From about 6th grade on the school I was in in Essex Center would take the "upper grades" to Ethan Allen Park for a beginning of the summer field trip. The park

has a neat "fort" and the view from the top gives a LONG look down the Champlain Valley.

As soon as we were old enough we would climb up to the top and look down the valley. As I grew older the view was decreased by pollution. By the early 1970's during periods of calm air in the summer we could actually see like a fog of pollution rolling up the valley.

Then I joined the Army in '75, moved to Northern Virginia. Air pollution down here was so bad that we started having "smog days" by about 1979. Then it got better for a LONG time due to emissions equipment on cars.

What I think is unfair about all the emissions stuff is that I can run my 7.3L F350 (15MPG) and pollute all over, but if my Escape (~30MPG) burps it may not pass emissions.

 

[5030]

Interesting. I get 22 unladen out of my full Banks equipped forged rod 7.3 in my 1997 Ford CC 4wd I bought new in 97 and will never sell it. No rust either. It's never been in Michigan snow. They built trucks back then, unlike today's tinfoil trucks. Has a real full ladder frame and sits on real leaf springs that cause a tank like ride with nothing in the bed.... lol

 

[5030]

I get 40 out of my 18 Focus RS so long as I keep my foot off of the fuel pedal. I tend to drive on cruise as much as possible and interestingly, I get my best mileage in the summer with the climate control on... I get it up on the turbo and the mileage goes south real quick. The emissions hardware has never caused me any issue, ever. The auto makers have successfully integrated it into their gas motors I'd say, unlike Diesel tractors that are post 4 compliant.

Being an old fart I rarely get on it, but if I do it's quite capable of triple numbers on a freeway on ramp.

350 horses in a roller skate equals a supercar with a 6 speed close ratio manual trans. Gets rubber in the first 4 gears too, not that I do it often, I don't. The low aspect speed rated tires are super expensive but it's there, lurking under the hood.

Nice thing about it is, here in Michigan, it insures as a normal Ford Focus hatchback economy car so insurance is cheap, relatively speaking. Has nice Recaro bucket seats and comes with a 3 point harness as well.

My wife was not happy when I bought it off lease but she's calmed down over the years I've had it and I just do normal upkeep on it other than it's a GDI engine with no pilot jets in the intakes to keep the intake valves clean and carbon free, so I run Sea Foam top end engine cleaner through it every time I change to oil at 5K miles. I have over 80K trouble free miles on it now. Just changed the serpentine belts to Gates Fleetrunner belts. Quite a chore as you have to remove the right inner fender well to access the ac compressor belt. One of Ford's 'better ideas' and it's what they call a stretchy belt so no idler either and it requires a special tool to remove and replace it. What a chore....

 

[Williy]

Many years ago a lawyer had the emsisions equip rem;oved
from his Chrysler then had it inspected it met the spec's for
15 years down the road. He did this because his car stunk
up the neighborhood it smelled like sulfur from his car. So
his car didn't need the emissions equipment why do we need
that crap on the vehicles that produce more letheal fumes
burns more gas etc??? Then again why is it that the American
tax payer is forced to clean up the world polutions at our expense? Why not force other countries like China for example to clean up their act??????????

willy