How much do you care about pre emissions

[Snobdds]

It wasn't meant as a political statemwnt/question or really an environmental one; Although, if environmental side maters for you, and you would prefer an emissions model, that's fair too.

I just can't see paying new prices for a 10/15/20 year old machine, even at only 500-1000 hours just because it's pre-emissions; when there is a 5 year old post emission machine for less, or a new machine for 10% more.

Guess, I'm in the camp, rather not have the added stuff, but I'm not going to pay more, or accept less of a machine to avoid them.

Yes, I got a under emissions machine, in the same frame as higher HP emissions machines; but that's a money choice.

Well for you to truly understand the question, one would have to have the context of what equipment was like before emissions and after emissions.

Equipment was much simpler, lasted longer, was able to be worked on without a computer, and costed less. Today all those are flipped.

Do you think that is good?

 

[DarkBlack]

My simplified 2 cents on the initial question:

Catalyst emissions equipment on gasoline ICE, is desirable to me.
The closed loop injection system in conjunction with a catalyst exhaust produces more efficient, cleaner, reliable power.
It works very , very well.

Diesel emissions systems, I would avoid if possible. It’s much more expensive, and less reliable.
Regen designs waste fuel.
A problem caused by a government in search of eliminating diesel engines

That’s it in a nutshell

 

[dodge man]

There is little doubt the emission requirements are making the air cleaner. I look at it as gas engines in cars and trucks are relatively trouble free and make more power than ever. In the 70’s and early 80’s that wasn’t always the case. Maybe that’s where we’re at with diesel engines. They sort of have it figured out but we’re not quite there but close.

 

[paulsharvey]

Well for you to truly understand the question, one would have to have the context of what equipment was like before emissions and after emissions.

Equipment was much simpler, lasted longer, was able to be worked on without a computer, and costed less. Today all those are flipped.

Do you think that is good?

Yes, true, but that was happening unrelated to emissions. Remember old Cat-14H graders, then they came out with the Cat-14M which had fly by wire joy sticks, instead of a steering wheel, 8 levels, 3 peddles, ect. 544H loaders to I think the K model, you got an electronic bucket scale, added low oil shut offs, ect.

The electronics were coming regardless.

My old Kubota L285 would run fine with the battery removed, and had one sometimes working electrical circuit, starter. Manually kill the fuel, to shut off. Key was independent of the start button, so really, if you lost a key, you could eliminate the key swrich and just use the starter switch (or a large, well insulated screw driver)

 

[DarkBlack]

That's what, 4 states out of 50 that do emissions checks?

It’s a lot more. For instance in NH, while they don’t directly sniff the exhaust at a yearly inspection, but they do plug into the OBD2 port.
You have to jump through some significant vehicle software hoops to fool a modern software emissions integrity check

 

[4570Man]

That's what, 4 states out of 50 that do emissions checks?

That’s county regulated not state for the most part. My county doesn’t but other counties in the state do. I’d guess vehicle emission testing is done somewhere in all 50 states.

 

[LouNY]

New York does in the entire state via the obd port and some localities have tailpipe sniffers.

 

[Paystar]

After running 5 class 8 trucks with SCR and now running heavy equipment with it, I will never ever own anything with a DPF or SCR.
I only buy Kubota B series and RTV's for my yard maintenance because they are under the 26 h.p. threshold, I have bigger antique tractors for heavier ground engaging work, and I went back to gasoline powered pickups.
I don't like wasting my money on junk.

Do I avoid emissions systems on gasoline powered engines? No not at all, because they work reliably, something no new diesel can do.

 

[5030]

That's what, 4 states out of 50 that do emissions checks?

I have no idea how many. I know California does, so does Ohio and so does Illinois. Michigan don't (I live there) but who else, I have no idea.

 

[5030]

The thing I don't like nor understand is, you have to run the new emissions compliant diesels at high rpm which, in my view, flies in the face of what a diesel is all about. Diesels are supposed to be high torque, low rpm engines, not high rpm engines and it seems to me that the regenerations waste diesel anyway.

Far as gas engines in vehicles go, the automakers seem to have that issue worked out. I remember back in the 60's when cars had air pumps and more hoses than China had rice and when you shut them off, they kept on running. Think it was called 'dieseling'...

Back before I retired from the Western Star dealership in Toledo, Ohio, 60 percent of the work in the shop was emissions related and mostly DEF dosing units that failed. For a while I had a steady diet of TIG welding new access bungs in 'One Boxes' for class 8 diesel trucks. I did them at home in my shop and they delivered them to me. I got 200 bucks a box for about 30 minutes of work and Detroit Diesel provided all the hardware to weld them up. A new One Box at that time was over 1300 bucks if you could get one. The One Box on a big diesel truck contains all the emissions hardware and the particulate filter as well. The outfit I worked for bought a filter cleaning machine as well and they cleaned filters for everyone. All the 'ash' had to go to a hazardous waste landfill too.

been away for a while now so maybe the issues are sorted out, I don't know. I do know that it gets cold up here and DEF freezes in the holding tank and it has to be heated to flow. The trucks had coolant heaters as well as 12 volt resistance heaters in the DEF tanks.

My issue with tractors is two fold. One, the emissions components are not easily accessable, you have to have a proprietary by brand diagnostic tool and two, they seem to be failure prone. I know at the Kubota dealer where I work part time delivering new units, Dennis hates working on them. He told me they are a nightmare. Guess that is why, when I need work done in the shop, he always fits me in. He likes working on non emissions compliant engines.

Not for me and never will be.

Guy down the road has a fleet of newer John Deere ag tractors and he told me the dealer's techs are always out there in his workshop, working on them.

Like I said, cars and light trucks, they seem to have the bugs worked out of them but diesels are another story.