How Important is Made in the USA?

[crazyal]

I totally agree. I've been saying that for years. HF and other stores like it are doing well because most consumers are willing to trade quality for cost. The simple truth is that the stores sell what people are buying. As long as more consumers are buying cheap junk than those who are buying quality tools, that's what the bulk of the stores are going to sell. If you're a business owner and cheap tools are what are selling the best, what do you do? You stock cheap tools. The blame here lies 99% with the consumer.

I've got to disagree with you. I have a large Chinese adjustable wrench (24") and a 48" aluminum pipe wrench. I paid $25 for the adjustable and $50 for the pipe. I occasionally use them to rebuild hydraulic cylinders, the few times I have they worked great. While in Lowes the other day I noticed the same size adjustable, Kolbalt brand (no idea where it's made) was $125 or 5 times what I paid, $160 for a snap-on. I have plenty of Blue Point tools but it makes no sense to spend that kind of money on a tool I'll use less than once a year.

Buying the best has to be balanced out with will you get your money out of it.

 

[dcyrilc]

I've got to disagree with you. I have a large Chinese adjustable wrench (24") and a 48" aluminum pipe wrench. I paid $25 for the adjustable and $50 for the pipe. I occasionally use them to rebuild hydraulic cylinders, the few times I have they worked great. While in Lowes the other day I noticed the same size adjustable, Kolbalt brand (no idea where it's made) was $125 or 5 times what I paid, $160 for a snap-on. I have plenty of Blue Point tools but it makes no sense to spend that kind of money on a tool I'll use less than once a year.

Buying the best has to be balanced out with will you get your money out of it.

I don't think we actually disagree that much Al. I was stating why it's so hard to find good tools vs cheap/inexpensive ones. I totally agree with your last statement. I've bought my share of cheap tools. Usually ones that I expect to buy once and never use again. We just bought shears for the lamas last weekend and bought a $300 pair. I want them to work when I need them. Not something I'm going to cut corners on. Last fall I needed some tool (don't remember what or why) and the first and last place I looked was HF. Used it for what I needed and pitched it in the trash.

As a general rule, I do try to buy better tools though. Even if I have to wait to make the purchase due to the price difference.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

I've got to disagree with you. I have a large Chinese adjustable wrench (24") and a 48" aluminum pipe wrench. I paid $25 for the adjustable and $50 for the pipe. I occasionally use them to rebuild hydraulic cylinders, the few times I have they worked great. While in Lowes the other day I noticed the same size adjustable, Kolbalt brand (no idea where it's made) was $125 or 5 times what I paid, $160 for a snap-on. I have plenty of Blue Point tools but it makes no sense to spend that kind of money on a tool I'll use less than once a year.

Buying the best has to be balanced out with will you get your money out of it.

I think this is the take of 95% of tool buyers buying for self use and not in a service business. To save steps and to insure tool sets in the shop, garage, motorhome, trucks I prefer quanity over quality.

When I did tool and die work it was a different story.

 

[Gary Fowler]

I have been reading thru this post and will just add my position to the rest. I find no benefit in buying snap-on tools or other high dollar type product for what I use them for and you cant even be sure if they are made in USA anymore. Much of what we assume is USA made is only partially made here anyway just like the Howse tiller. Just like Red Wing boots discussed in a different forum, turn out that some of them are now made in China and some of them are supposedly still made in USA. Who has time to search thru each model to see where it is made anyway. I usually buy the needed quality to suit my use regardless of place of manufacturer. I find no benefit in bad mouthing a company that moved their business to foreign country because our government taxed them out of business here or wouldnt protect them with proper tariffs like other countries do (see Japan and China) Our government allows other countries to put high tariffs or even disallow importation of our goods to their country and yet we still allow them to mass import the same goods here with out any tariff. How can we expect a manufacturer to compete in a world like that. In our construction jobs, we routinely buy and contract work in foreign lands. Sometimes this is because we actually get better quality from them. Korean's make some of the best pressure vessels and deliver them on time. USA manufactures are higher due in part to Union wages and benefits required and sometime we have more quality issues with them than foreign companies. So many times the place of doing business is determined by delivery date, cost and quality, not just cost alone. I agree, it would be great for our economy if we could buy locally all the time, but our own government has made that decision for us now. We are so dependent on foreign produced goods now, that if they stopped importation of all foreign goods today, our country would shut down. Just look at how the Tsunamai in Japan threatened our automobile production of USA companies. We are totally at the foreign nationals mercy to supply us with needed goods. Our farmers are just about our only resource left and they depend a lot on foreign made goods also. Much of our fertilizer is imported.

 

[jdmar]

My 2 cents:

1) Yes I would (and often do pay 10% more for USA made. If we keep more of our money here more people are at work, less on the feds gravy train...and possibly even less taxes in the future (OK not likely on the last part).

2) I think if we get used to "turning over" the product to look at the label/country of origin we are making informed decisions. I buy from many countries including China. I just want to know all the details of a product. A few bucks more and I will give my money to my country. If a log splitter is twice the price (and I rarely use it) I may give that to China. If I use a product all the time for my livelihood I will pay twice the price for real quality. INFORMED decision is the key here.

3) Another reason to buy USA is product design theft. This is VERY common. Our USA made products are bought by other countries/companies. Sometimes these products are never even fully paid for! The foreign company then disassembles, copies and manufactures the product with inferior components/material/quality control. I know of a case where they even copied the sales flyer only changing the name of the company (but the original Ohio company's name was still visible on the door of a truck in the photo!). This saves the foreign company huge dollars on R&D. This is another more hidden reason to avoid some countries with this habit.

4) I teach my children to "look at the label" to make an informed decision. Try to keep your money with local companies and employees. Try not to send money to countries that are our "enemies on the international scene.

5) When we get to the point where we make very little but still have a high need we exert very little control over the international market. We CAN produce oil in this country but do very little (compared to consumption) for many reasons. We "pay the price" every day for that total lack of control...and it hurts our people twice! Once on the lack of US production (and manufacture of the equipment to produce) and again on our excessive cost for consumption. Heck, just a threat of releasing some of the strategic reserves makes the price of oil go down. Imagine what would happen if we actually produced a lot regularly.

OK, that was more like 5 cents than 2 cents...sorry.
Peter

 

[Car Doc]

We can build good and reasonably priced high quality goods here if the government wasn't into the free trade business and so anti American entrepreneur business attitude and policy.

I believe we could actually compete with china and mexico if the government would simply let it happen and run this country like a business rather than a charity for the rest of the world to take from us.

2/3 of the world adds value to imported goods and exports them here we have some of the richest resources anywhere and we export raw materials and then import finished products just backwards from 2/3 of the rest of the world. We should be adding value to our resources jmho.

They tax and tax and tax a business to the point why build anything here with the free trade since nafta and gatt corps are forced out of this country for slave labor and no tax's and work comp medicare ss unions etc.

again my 2c I own a small business fwtw

 

[SPYDERLK]

Gary, You are correct about them being from Ms and I knew that and didn't mean to say that the whole thing was made in India. The blades are they have a blue sticker on them that says India. You can see the air pockets and blobs of slag in the cast blades where they snapped. I pointed out to them that at some point they changed blades so there must have been a problem that they acknowledged but that did not matter. Oh well lesson learned and that is why I will not buy there products.

:thumbsup: You didnt. He misread and assumed. -- I too feel howse should have stood up for you by "righting" their product.
larry

 

[SPYDERLK]

I've got to disagree with you. I have a large Chinese adjustable wrench (24") and a 48" aluminum pipe wrench. I paid $25 for the adjustable and $50 for the pipe. I occasionally use them to rebuild hydraulic cylinders, the few times I have they worked great. While in Lowes the other day I noticed the same size adjustable, Kolbalt brand (no idea where it's made) was $125 or 5 times what I paid, $160 for a snap-on. I have plenty of Blue Point tools but it makes no sense to spend that kind of money on a tool I'll use less than once a year.

Buying the best has to be balanced out with will you get your money out of it.

I have some cheaps of those wrenches. The adjustable is OK. The pipe wrench has soft jaws and immediately starts slipping. A tool that works is worth many times one that doesnt. You better use em quick so you know before the warranty is up.
larry

 

[SPYDERLK]

I don't think we actually disagree that much Al. I was stating why it's so hard to find good tools vs cheap/inexpensive ones. I totally agree with your last statement. I've bought my share of cheap tools. Usually ones that I expect to buy once and never use again. We just bought shears for the lamas last weekend and bought a $300 pair. I want them to work when I need them. Not something I'm going to cut corners on. Last fall I needed some tool (don't remember what or why) and the first and last place I looked was HF. Used it for what I needed and pitched it in the trash.

As a general rule, I do try to buy better tools though. Even if I have to wait to make the purchase due to the price difference.

The cheap hammer for occasional use is a reasonably good bet. A more sophisticated cheap tool is not and you need to test them quick. Buying for single use and throw away is ridiculous from every angle. Youre either throwing away money -- or the tool was ruined in use and therefore exacted added cost in results or user health.
larry

 

[Machold]

As far as implements go, I always look for made in USA/Canada, maybe even Italy, but the most likely time you'll find such like is if the unit is used, like the Green sickle mower I found in someone's barn. Nevertheless, there are still US and Canadian made implements (not many but some), LandPride; my Wallenstein chipper was made in Ontario; so, too the log splitter. AND, Kubota snowblowers are made in Quebec. Also, have to watch out for, Assembled in USA/Canada, because parts come from Asia, usually.

 

[Lockport]

Actually when you buy foreign products of still developing demographs that historically are plagued by root inarticulateness of philosophies hindering the propogation of bridging our civilizations it offers the market buying power. Eventually this can only be rewarded by the insurmountable opportunity of customer base far beyond the scope that we have ever seen. Long and the short...Reep what you Sow. It's been around for centuries.

 

[doall]

deep lockport>

 

[ShannonCole888]

Aren't most tractors made in India now adays ? India builds, and sales more tractors than anyone else. Massey Ferguson, New Holland, John Deere, Mahindra are all assembled in India. India also produces more cast Iron than the U.S. I believe. I don't know if the tractors in India are made with as high quality steel, or poor quality steel. I have done some research on metal products from India. China is suppose to be the first place cast iron has been used. India is suppose to have high quality steel, and they probably do, but the quality of steel that Howse makes their products with may not be the same they use in the tractors. I don't know. Kuhn is the only know manufacturer of tillers I know that make their tillers out of what appears to be the highest quality of steel reasonable. If you go to tractorhouse, and look at kuhn tillers several years old, compared to like howse, woods, king kutter,phoenix, even frontier. The rust corrosion isn't the same, it appears to be made out of higher quality steel. King Kutter plows, and Howse plows look almost identical, just different paint skeems. I looked at them real close. King Kutter is suppose to be 100% American made, but if Howse has parts made in India, I don't know. They look awfully close to not be the same thing, only different colors. After a year or two, the King Kutter stuff seems to rust quiet a bit. Check out the Kuhn products, and used Kuhn products, compare the difference in the rust, with like the King Kutter. Kuhn is fron France, Sicma is from Italy. Sicma has considerable rust on their tillers, after a few years of use too. The plows everythingattachments are coming out with, appear to be of better steel quality, I don't know, but they appear to be. If anyone knows the quality of steel used in the tractors made in India today vs, the tractors of the 40's-60's your insight would be appreciated. Just because the metal products made in America are used with American materials, put together by Americans, doesn't mean it is of higher quality. It depends are the quality of the material, and the person assembling it. If the person is careless, if may fall apart, if the person is careful, then the product may be more reliable.

 

[ShannonCole888]

If anyone knows the grade of steel used in the tractors being assembled in India, their insight is appreciated. I know of tractors built in the 40's that people are still using to this very day. The tractors aren't rust buckets either. I go look a tractors at the dealership, they already have rust on them, and they are brand new. I know it is suppose to be surface rust, but is it ? If the process continues, and it starts flakeing off, is it cheap quality steel ? A good paint job can make cheap steel look good. I am looking for a quality made product, american made, doesn't mean good quality. With so many people on drugs, it is unlikely that products made by americans, are even as good as products overseas. Almost best to build our own tools..

 

[chamjoe]

I follow the anywhere but China rule where possible and will always give a preference to USA made items. I think its important to our economy to preserve the middle class and no I'm not a union fan. Imagine what would happen to our country if we went to war with China.

I would gladly pay 10% more for a quality USA made item. I would like to preserve the wealth in this country instead of enriching the Chinese.

 

[mjncad]

After 45+ years of using a little 3-1/2" vise made by Littletown (no longer in business) I treated myself to a Wilton 6-1/2" Tradesman vise. It was so nice to see "Made in USA" cast into it. Now I need to make a pedestal for it as my workbenches aren't strong enough for it.

Yes, I need new workbenches too; but my shop is in the basement and hauling a stout bench down the stairs is not going to happen.

 

[BethesdaEC]

After 45+ years of using a little 3-1/2" vise made by Littletown (no longer in business) I treated myself to a Wilton 6-1/2" Tradesman vise. It was so nice to see "Made in USA" cast into it. Now I need to make a pedestal for it as my workbenches aren't strong enough for it.

Yes, I need new workbenches too; but my shop is in the basement and hauling a stout bench down the stairs is not going to happen.

Take a look at the Gladiator workbenches, they have a 1 3/4 inch thick maple top and stout metal legs. Also the legs bolt on so you can assemble it once you get down into the basement. I have three in my basement workshop. Keep an eye on Sears, they will put them on sale periodically.

 

[mjncad]

Thanks for the tip BethesdaEC!