How does this scam work?

[EddieWalker]

Karen wants another Akita. We have a female and she wants to get a male puppy. She was been looking for awhile and tonight found one for sale fairly close to us. She sent a message to a 508 area code. My first red flag, but not too bad because so many people keep their number after they move. They talked on the phone and she said he sounded like he was from Nigeria. Big red flag. He then said the puppy belonged to his mom in Arkansas and that's where he is not at. Karen thinks he sounds nice and says we can drive there, it's only 3 hours away. He gives her his address and says he can ship the puppy to us, or we can come and get it. He is good either way. She says we will come there and he offers her to send them with a carrier and all his papers. If we don't want him, no problem, the carrier will bring him back. If we do, we pay using a prepaid credit card for $500.

I'm telling her this is a scam and to get some resent pictures, and also to get the name of the carrier who will take the money.

He replied "no" and that's that.

What I don't get is how does the scam work? Will anybody every show up with a puppy? How does he get his money if the puppy never shows up? Will he come up with excuses or some other version of the story to get her to send him the money? Seems hard to believe, but I'm not understanding any of this.

I did a google search of his phone number, (508)921-0629 and found that he has a variety of dogs lists all over the place.

It's not going to happen, I'm just curious.

Thanks,
Eddie

 

[George2615]

It's the same scam as selling tractors and equipment. They usually claim the money is held by a third party they don't have access to until you are satisfied with the tractor, equipment, or dog in this case. Problem is they do have access to the third party (usually a phony company they own) holding your money. Once they have the money the ads and phone they used disappear.

 

[dave1949]

Akita Club of America

Every AKC recognized breed is required to have a breed "parent club." This is where you should begin your search for a reputable breeder.

The scam, probably works something like George said above. But really, who cares? I would only buy a dog directly from a breeder with a good history that is a member in good standing with the breed's parent club.

 

[/pine]

I'm not familiar with the "puppy" version of these scams...but I do know they exist because they work often enough for people to spend their time baiting them...

Americans in general are extremely gullible (for proof just look at the general electorate) and make ideal targets for global con artists...

Did you flag the listing?

 

[PILOON]

So he provided an address that was drivable but I am sure that option would disappear once you were to select it.
Oh, scam for sure, has all the earmarks.
Also a safe one as no LEO will take the time of day to pursue it due to the low price, heck even $5000. scams they ignore due to jurisdictions and costs.

 

[bertsmobile]

Americans are not alone.
A common scam down here as well.
Used extensively to catch greedy puppy factory type who want to cash in on what ever type of dog is hot at the moment.
Always not their dog and at a relations place.
Google the supplied address and oft it is not real, ca vacant lot or in one case the address of a legitimate boarding kennel supposedly selling "unclaimed dogs"

 

[randy41]

it doesn't sound like a scam to me. you don't give up anything until after you are in possession of the dog.

 

[Garandman]

508 area code is eastern Massachusetts south of Boston. So that's odd. Lots of red flags here.

 

[Ranger Rick]

Has Karen looked at the Akita breed rescues? Here is one in east Texas that has some nice looking dogs. https://www.facebook.com/LoneStarAkitaRescue
Here is a link to other rescue groups in Texas Texas Rescue Groups: Purebred Dogs | Pet Adoption & Animal Rescue Pawsitively Texas

We have adopted several dogs over the years from rescues without any problem. They can have some sweet dogs. Rick

 

[Looking4new]

Sounds like a way to part gullible people from their money. Eddie, tell your wife to run! The other way.

 

[crash325]

Has Karen looked at the Akita breed rescues? Here is one in east Texas that has some nice looking dogs. https://www.facebook.com/LoneStarAkitaRescue
Here is a link to other rescue groups in Texas Texas Rescue Groups: Purebred Dogs | Pet Adoption & Animal Rescue Pawsitively Texas

We have adopted several dogs over the years from rescues without any problem. They can have some sweet dogs. Rick

I agree with this 100%. & it does not cost anything to look.
Best suggestion so far.

 

[TCJatko]

Has Karen looked at the Akita breed rescues? Here is one in east Texas that has some nice looking dogs. https://www.facebook.com/LoneStarAkitaRescue
Here is a link to other rescue groups in Texas Texas Rescue Groups: Purebred Dogs | Pet Adoption & Animal Rescue Pawsitively Texas

We have adopted several dogs over the years from rescues without any problem. They can have some sweet dogs. Rick

Absolutely do this. There are many, many good dogs in need of a home.

 

[EddieWalker]

Funny thing is after she realized this was a scam, she got back online and started searching through the AKC list of breeders. She found one in Tyler, but they do not have any puppies, and they are not planning any for right now. They gave her the name of a person in Austin who has one that is 6 weeks old, but wasn't planning on selling him. After they spoke on the phone for awhile, she agreed to consider Karen after she finished filling out the application. It's three pages long and quite detailed. Karen is filling it out now and will get it back to her later on today. Neither has even brought up price, which scares me, but this is her thing and I'm just trying to keep her out of trouble.

From what I've found online searching puppy scams, they get you with the additional fees. Money to buy a bigger kennel, money for shots, money to pay the vet, money to get the papers, money to help out a charity. Seems like it's nickel and dime stuff that never ends. You never get the animal because it doesn't exist. They just keep asking for more money until you finally realize its not going to happen and stop replying to them.

Then there is the most common scam, where they give you a large check from a foreign bank and ask you to refund them the difference. The check is fake, so you are out the money you sent them. He didn't try that one.

Thanks,
Eddie

 

[DrRod]

That's just the half of it. If you cash that check you are committing fraud. The New Yorker did a long piece on one of these scams where a Ph.D. psychologist in Massachusetts got caught up in a Nigerian scam. You would think a psychologist would have seen through it but he and his wife fell for it whole hog. Even though the scammers repeatedly misspelled his name, they cashed a series of checks, which later turned out to be originally from Cy Sims Clothiers ["where an informed consumer is our most important customer"]. They were so persistent that even when he had been sentenced to prison, the scammers called his wife to let her know that they were with her in her time of need.

I once listed a flail mower on eBay and it was amazing how many scammers came out of the woodwork. And I mean this was not an easy sell. Even if you did manage to wrench it from me, who would you sell it too all that quickly. If it smell bad, look for another alternative.

 

[EddieWalker]

Thank you. Karen sent the application back and the owner said that she is not the top contender. Turns out that there are others also filling out applications for this puppy. Some time this week she is sending a friend of hers over to our place to inspect it, interview us and see our Akita. Already having one, and Karen's experience living in Japan for 3 years are important to the breeder. They are not your normal breed, and those with them all seem to know each other. It just took a little bit of time finding out who these people are.

Eddie

 

[EarPlug]

If we don't want him, no problem, the carrier will bring him back. If we do, we pay using a prepaid credit card for $500.

With payment by Card all you would need to do is give them the numbers. No need for a mailing address or any other physical contact. They can access the cash anywhere iin the world and not traceable.

Check out GreenDot card scams - https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=green%20dot%20card%20scams

 

[dave1949]

When Sharon got involved with Leonberger dogs that was my first look at the purebred dog world. The Leonberger Club of America (LCA) existed for many years before Leos became AKC recognized. Not everyone was happy with joining the AKC but a splinter group of owners who wanted more involvement in confirmation showings sort of forced the issue.

The LCA has the same routine for new puppies. Interviews, questionnaires, a sponsor--which can be the breeder. I used to jokingly call them the dog ****'s. LOL But, I've learned that is where you find the breeders who are really committed to the breed's health and overall quality. The contract with breeders when buying a puppy usually requires the puppy buyer to return the dog to the breeder if they need to or must give it up for any reason. It is also common that you are required to have some basic health tests done at a certain puppy age. Hip dysplasia x-rays and eye tests are common requirements. That's the only way a breeder can know for sure what they are producing.

That's not to say there aren't a few excellent breeders who just don't want any part of the AKC thing on principle and aren't LCA members. But they are very, very few and identifying the good ones isn't going to be easy without help from someone who has a long history with the breed.

The LCA has a volunteer network of people who shuttle rescues to foster homes and forever homes all over the country. There is Leonberger health foundation that coordinates blood, necropsy tissue samples, and such for DNA testing to identify breed lines passing genetic inherited health issues. There is a Breeding Scoring committee that scores all potential studs and beaches for suitability. It adds up to a reasonable effort to maintain the breed.

Anyways, I hope that information shows the difference between a puppy miller selling in pet shops, newspapers, on craigslist, compared to a real dog breeder. It's like your client list Eddie, good breeders have people waiting for puppies.

 

[aczlan]

It is also common that you are required to have some basic health tests done at a certain puppy age. Hip dysplasia x-rays and eye tests are common requirements. That's the only way a breeder can know for sure what they are producing.

My parents have raised Goldens since before I was around and I am told that you can now test for hip displasia and blindness at 8 weeks. I wouldn't buy a Golden who who was not certified to have good hips and eyes (although, if we got a dog, it would likely be a Burmese Mountain Dog as my wife loves them and is good friends with a good breeder that acclimates all their adult dogs to working around large animals).

Aaron Z

 

[dave1949]

My parents have raised Goldens since before I was around and I am told that you can now test for hip displasia and blindness at 8 weeks. I wouldn't buy a Golden who who was not certified to have good hips and eyes (although, if we got a dog, it would likely be a Burmese Mountain Dog as my wife loves them and is good friends with a good breeder that acclimates all their adult dogs to working around large animals).

Aaron Z

The eye testing I'm aware of called CERF (Canine Eye Registration Foundation): http://www.farmcliff.com/articles/CERF Testing Your Dog.pdf
It's a combination eye exam and eye health tracking registry.

(Burmese?) Bernese Mtn. Dogs are nice. They always look so happy. Some health challenges in the breed though I've heard.

One of the reasons Leonberger people didn't want to join the AKC was because if a breed gains popularity it provides the incentive for puppy mills to crank them out. Leonbergers are probably too big and unpractical enough that their popularity will not become that great hopefully. But, shortly after they joined the AKC there were a couple puppy millers breeding them. **** leeches.

There is no quality control in puppy mill breeding. They can pass on some very bad genetics that can spread through the breed eventually. Let's say they use one stud dog with a genetic defect for ten beeches who have two-three litters per year. With a litter size of 6 pups, two litters per year, that's 120 pups in one year that could be carrying that defect. Multiply that by several years use of the same stud and you have a big problem that's going to take a while to sort out and eliminate from the breeding gene pool. It's very likely there are no reliable records of where those pups went even. They are ticking genetic time bombs.