How do you say no?

Unclebuck257 · Sep 19, 2005

pennwalk,

I'm originally from up your area, about 30 years ago now, but most of the younger folks living in the Lancaster area now are very suit concious. The suggestion of being very careful regarding any damage/injury and having insurance is a wise suggestion. You know what I mean. My brother and mother still live around you so I know that what I'm saying is true.

The wife and I live on some acerage out in the country, and share a private road with one other, younger, couple. We lived here for several years before they purchased their property, at the end of the private road, and put their home up. At first, they did not have a tractor so last year, I mowed the grass on both sides of the private road all year, as I always had done. Late last year the husband came to me and said that he had bought a tractor himself and because I had done all the mowing for their first year here, that he would do all the mowing this year, and I shouldn't worry about it at all. Of course, I told him that wasn't necessary, but he insisted and with the exception of one time I just wanted to do it, he has mowed both sides of that road all year.

That was an example to me of the best senario with new neighbors. My only concern for you is that they will EXPECT you to do it all the time. I guess I've always found it's best to get something like this straightened out from the very beginning. At the least, they need to be helping you with fuel expenses etc. Otherwise, let them go pay someone else to do it and find out just how big a help you're really being to them.

BigEddy · Sep 20, 2005

You need to decide if you want to take on clearing their drive as a job or not. If you do - you're now responsible, and it will be expected - you should expect compensation as well. You are working for hire, you have liability expectations, as well as performance expectations - it's a job. They'll complain if it isn't done - on time, to their satisfaction, etc.

If you don't need another job, or don't want another job, you can still do it for fun. You do it when you want, how you want, if you want. If you feel like moving snow, go out and work at it until the feeling goes away. If your drive is done and so is theirs, perfect - they lucked out. If theirs isn't done, no skin off your back either. And if you don't feel like moving snow, but you have to - go out and move as little as you can - enough to get out and back - and no more - and leave them to take care of their own.

Me - I'd tell them straight up what I plan to do. "If it's a nice Saturday morning, and I'm out playing around on the tractor, hey - I'll clear you out too while I'm at it. No obligations, no expectations". But at the same time I'd make it clear that it's my choice - "Now, if it's 30 below and howling a gale, I'll be putting my feet up in front of the fire and reading a book, the snow can wait till another time - so if you need to get out, you better have a way to get yourself through" - That way everyone is clear and you're not "expected" to keep them open. And I'd likely make the point one of the first snowfalls, by rushing off right after clearing a path and leaving them "snowed in", just so they get the message.

I don't mind doing favours for others, but it's not a favour if it's expected.

rox · Sep 24, 2005

My 2 cents, or actually centimes. If people buy a house they need to have responsibility for getting themselves into on off of their property. When we lived in Wisconsin I can't tell ou how much snow we hand shoveld before my parents bought us a snow blower for Christmas. I mean blizards of snow, course we were in our 20's so we had the energy to do it. We would literally shovel until 2am. It is jsut part and parcel of home ownership.

People should only look for "help" from their neighbors when they really need "help" not for normal maintence. They know there is going to be snow, they bought the house knowing about the private road and the snow in the area, they need to be self sufficient. Now if their snowblower breaks down, hey now they really do need "help" afer a few hours of hand shoveling, that is something different. I go along with everybody else, and vote for just do it if and when you feel like it and I for sure wouldn't help them until they had cleared it themselves at least 3 times.

We always helped our neighbors, if they were on vacation we cut their grass and vice versa. However normal week-in week out homeowner maintence is their responsibility and you should not feel guilty about not doing it any more. Agree with the no money part, that will just be a problem. Just plow yours up to your driveway and let them stuggle a bit, and figure it out, it is their problem, it is not your house ,it is their hosue. What you did before is completely irrelevent. I am a very nice neighbor, however I see value in everybody pitching in together or each taking care of their own. Seems to me that they have 4 hands (him and hers) and a couple shovels and they can be the masters of their own kingdom.

pennwalk · Dec 10, 2005

Update on the neighbor thing. We had our first snow here Friday. Six inches of powder. Easy to clear . A great winter warm-up. I had just about finished clearing my driveway and the shared road when my neighbor lady stopped by to ask if is was for hire. Where do women learn that helpless look. How many of you guys have done stuff you didn't want to because of that look. Anyway I pulled it together and told her no. So where do they learn that other look. You know hurt disapointment. So I knocked out her driveway but I am not doing it next time... er probably. I feel like a sucker one part of me wants that smiling reward and the other part of me knows I could get into trouble so deep I might never dig out.

Chris

Robert_in_NY · Dec 10, 2005

Well, you could just tell her to hire a plow service as you do not enjoy freezing just for the sake of freezing. Or if you are not married...

Next time just plow your drive out at 5am and have your tractor parked and put away before she wakes up. Good luck to you as I know that look as does every guy. /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Bird · Dec 10, 2005

( Where do women learn that helpless look. How many of you guys have done stuff you didn't want to because of that look. )

Do you think there's a man who hasn't? /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

cp1969 · Dec 10, 2005

We had our first snow Wednesday night. 10-12" of the wonderful(?) stuff coupled with +7F temperature.

I ended up doing five other neighbors' drives (for free). I hate to see people shoveling. By the time I got done, I was too cold to finish my own.

Theowegian · Dec 10, 2005

I must say, you do have my sympathies. It really is no fun to be taken advantage of, especially, in these types of situations.

A couple thoughts.

I agree with others, that bringing up the money issue is probably not a real good idea.

Im wondering if you could suggest that they mow the sides of the lane in the summer and you could maybe plow the lane of snow in the winter? Guess who's job is bigger? I bet the mowing is a bigger job.....

just a thought.

dwight

beenthere · Dec 11, 2005

You've gotta decide what it is you want to do, and get the backbone to do it. I don't mean that unkindly, and I re-read my original comment, and still think it's the way to handle your situation.
I almost have a similar situation with a 'new' neighbor, and sometimes would plow their drive out, and sometimes not. Once out at a good restaurant, the waiter came by after the meal and said 'yours is paid for'. Dumbfounded, she points to the neighbor across the room, and it was for plowing their drive. Since then, they have managed to plow it with equipment they bought (ATV with plow /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif ) but if my 7' plow has the time, I will still swing in and do it in about 3 minutes, max.

goodoleboy · Dec 11, 2005

No need to tel her no. Just dont do it and they will get the hint.

JerryG · Dec 12, 2005

Put a magnetic sign on the side of your tractor that says, "Driveways plowed $75" /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Docsknotinn · Dec 12, 2005

I just say no. If I have to say anything else I tell them they just wont want green paint on their drive and besides the guy with the plow charges a LOT less than I do.

Farmwithjunk · Dec 12, 2005

Maybe there's a new way of counting that I just haven't caught on to, but APPARENTLY, "No" is now a four letter word. People just don't want to hear it anymore.

My drive empties out into a dead end road. I'm the last house on the road. The county gets to us about 24 hours after the start of any major snow episode. There's 10 other homes on the road before it tee's in to a major state highway. One of those 10 homes is another small farm. That guy plows the road from his drive to the highway. I'm going to get it from my drive to where he takes over. You'd THINK the rest of the neighbors would be grateful, wouldn't you?

NOPE!

They somehow think Me and the other tractor owner are obligated to clear out their driveways too. (Shortest is over 250 feet "road to house")

Ain't gonna happen.

(I MIGHT consider it if I was offered a few peso's for my trouble/time/fuel/chattering teeth)

So, I just offer my "hourly rates" when approached to clean out their drives.

Once is a favor. Twice is an inconvenience. Three times is a job. I get paid when I'm working my job.

(Oddly enough, the most vocal complainer just recently made the comment "call a wrecker" to my wife who had a flat tire not far from the end of his driveway when she asked him to help her break loose a couple stuck lug-nuts. He's even off the "willing to pay list")

PBinWA · Dec 12, 2005

I get up real early and try to do it either early or late. I also try to keep my speed up and just wave and smile at my neighbors as I drive by. Don't stop - act like an airhead and just keep going. Silly gestures like crossing your arms and shivering or waving your arm like you've got to keep going or can't stop are also good - always with a smile on your face. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I'm thinking of adding my big ear protectors too so I can pretend that I can't hear anything.

It's also useful to turn around or pretend to be really involved in some task so you don't have to acknowledge them.

I plow our whole road (the road only) pretty much so my wife can get in and out and I do the back half because my friend lives down at the far end. If he moves then it isn't getting plowed. It's a pretty simple pattern so I can just keep moving and don't stop.

Farmwithjunk · Dec 12, 2005

( - act like an airhead and just keep going. )

In my case, that's no act............... /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

TimP · Dec 13, 2005

Great Thread ! I love reading everyone's "take" on this neighborly snow removel thing.

I am at the end of a 1300' private drive too ! I have a Kubota B2150 with a FEL, 5' Rear Blade AND recently got a 3PT Snowblower.

I have always used my rear blade to clear from my house to the public road. No one has ever said thanks in the last 8 years. But... a few years back we had a 30" snow. It took many, many hours to clear using just the FEL since I did not have a blower then. I did have one neighbor who asked (more like begged) me to clear his drive. His very old, very sick mother lived with him and the day caregiver nurse could not get to their house. He offerd to pay me and I said no.
I cleared his drive, the nurse got there and all was well. The next day, the guy brings me the biggest fruit basket I have ever seen. It had to cost $30-50. It made me feel good that he appreciated it so much.

Most neighbors along the road do have either small garden tractors or walk behind blowers, but would have a real tough time in deep snow, so I'll help them out. I have one neighor who always comes over if I'm working outside and asked if I need help. So it's a two way situation.

One neighbor actually pays a commercial guy, but he shows up 10-12 hours after the storm is over. By then, I've cleared the main drive. This same neighber has a BIG Deere with a 7' blade, I can't imagine why he would pay someone else when his Deere would make short work of it.

When I got to the public road, I saw a guy from down the street walking towards me... I knew he was going to ask me to do his driveway.... this guy never even waves when I drive past him, so I made like I didn't see him and took off to the garage and put the tractor away.

As long as it's not super cold and blowing outside when I clear the snow, It's fun !

As long as I feel it's appreciated I'll help. Otherwise... better get your shovel out !

Tim

tlbuser · Dec 13, 2005

I always thanked him and offered money he never accepted but always said he appreciated the offer. Showing up with a cup of coffee in one hand and hot chocolate in the other is sometimes WAY better than money. Next time, you'd know which one to bring two cups of.

tlbuser · Dec 13, 2005

( Update on the neighbor thing. my neighbor lady stopped by to ask if is was for hire. but I am not doing it next time... er probably.
Chris )
 You've already set the tone. You had prime time opportunity and you blew it. Were you kicking the dirt around and hanging your head, trying not to look at her midrange??
Sucker /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
got any pictures?

KubotaSteve · Dec 13, 2005

I don't mind helping out neighbors, it gets me when they expect it. The neighbor who lives beside me is retired and has a small walk behind snowblower, but only uses it when the snow gets about a foot deep. He has a grand cherokee and usually doesn't have any problems getting in or out. About 2 years ago we had about 15 inches of snow. I plowed my drive and went up his drive just scraping off about 12 or 13" inches leaving 2 inches so I wouldn't mess up his gravel drive. He was up snowblowing the area in front of his garage. He pulls out this wad of money (over $150) and tries to give it to me, then tries to stick it in my pocket. I told him, I didn't want it but thanks for offering. The neighbor beside me walks down and asks me if i will plow their driveway because they can't get anyone to come do it which is over 400 feet long. She has the look we all know so well. I tell her ok. I start plowing it, her kids are running everywhere, she goes back in the house and I never saw her husband once. I did it about half and said the heck with this and left. I won't take money if offered but at least make the offer.

moeh1 · Dec 13, 2005

You may be neighbors a long time. Someone has to set the tone of how you'll get along. Whatever you decide now will probably determine what your relationship is like later . My neighbor and I had a good talk when he moved in 15 years ago. Money never changes hands and help can be volunteered or asked for, but only available for the other when our own work is under control. They are great neighbors, one of us is always ahead on the other one's sweat, but a year or 2 later it is reversed. We didn't address the liability issue- I agree it is a concern to be aware of.