How do you say no?

arthr31 · Sep 13, 2005

Hi there,
Mark777 brought up an interesting point, young ppl might feel entitled, and at the same time not to know how to reciprocate. with that said, what was the exact context that the neighbor asked you to continue plowing the driveway? Was it a request or more of a directive?

If it were me, i'd say, "hey, when it snows, like really snows, i hang around home until it stops, then i plow. when i can get away without plowing, i do so. sometimes for a couple few weeks. (in NE this can be done with several small snow falls before you get the dreaded ice buildup). I'll need about 50 bux (or whatever) to handle the cost of diesel and whatever. Sound OK?"

Now, depending on their answer, you'll know what to do.

I learned this the hardway. Last winter, march 2005, I was so excited by my 169d's plowing performance I plowed a neighbor about 2ths of a mile down the road. I saw her watching from a window. When I came about 18" away from her volvo she stormed outta her front door and demanded to know who I was and what I was doing. I"m separated from her by my woodlot, my house is pretty hard to see. So, she might not have known me. Still, no way to meet a neighborh. Anway, it was hostile, I backed out and went away, upset, to say the least. This winter, I'll not offer to help. And, I'm tuning up the 169 in the next weekends, hoping for a kick_$$ snow season! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif -Art

p.s. important thing here is to not spring it upon them after the fact. lay it all out to begin with... At least my opinion

Junkman · Sep 13, 2005

I know what you mean about those type of neighbors. There is no doubt that we will be having one of those winters that will leave a lot of snow on the ground. I have my plow truck and my tractor always ready for the snow. I plow my 3500' driveway and keep it open. I let the adjoining neighbor do the road in the morning, and then I go back and widen in in the afternoon after the snow has stopped. If they don't get to the road before I get out there, then I do the road also. I do what is necessary to try to get along, but sometimes that is never enough. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

TonyV · Sep 13, 2005

I do what is necessary to try to get along, but sometimes that is never enough. 

I here ya Junkman. My only point is that you never know that its never enough until you've done enough to say never again. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

...Tony

HRS · Sep 13, 2005

Here is my take on your problem. I base this on experiences with family. You guys are kind of like this due to the interesting setup you are dealing with. DON'T bring up money. They are likely to think that you are just trying to make something off of them since you have the "front half". This could lead to really negative feelings. I've seen really "close" ties like this get really screwed up when money is brought up. Simply state your wishes. You do not wish to continually plow their driveway. If you could help them this first winter until they get things sorted out, wonderful! But set the expectations going into this so that they know what is expected. It may be hard now, but it WILL be much more difficult later. If they bring up money, then fine. But be clear even then as to how long you are willing to help even with pay. If they are capable and you are getting stuck with all the work, then you have no reason to feel bad for expecting them to do their share. If they are truly not capable, then let your conscience guide you.

Cowboyjg · Sep 14, 2005

Chris.....I think TonyV has a pretty good grasp on the situation. A couple of things that come to my mind include the opportunity to set the tone for the relationship for years to come. With them being younger you could take on the role of mentor of sorts regarding the nuances of country living. I recognize that many young people have this attitude of entitlement (I have 4 kids who practice on me daily) but untill you have a friendly sit down providing a history lesson of how things have been handled regarding this issue by past and present ownership, you're never gonna know what you really have to work with. I would think it's a great opportunity for both of you. Go and bring with you a olive branch and a house warming gift. Get it all out in the open. You might be surprised. Wost case scenario, you plow only when and where you need to.

ByronBob · Sep 14, 2005

I can see many different ways to handle this, and their all right in their own cases. You could just do it and expect nothing. If they compensate you like most understanding humans would then great. The first time your tractor breaks doing their driveway won't go over well, so your point is well understood also.

A question I ask myself also is how often are we talking about? In WNY with lake effect there are weeks that I'm plowing daily. I can barely keep my own drive open let alone someone else's.

I told a neighbor in July that moved in that you need to get something to clean your driveway with. But I don't think he really understood what I meant until he and 4 buddy's shoveled by hand his 600 foot driveway after a 12" storm. Maybe these folks just don't get it yet until they see it for themselves.

You may want to have them understand that if you get a storm and they need to get to work, and you don't, that cleaning the driveway at your convenience might not be the same as theirs.

I've asked my neighbor on occasion to run his plow up and down my driveway a few times in the winter when it's been bad. He's obliged only when I've called. In May after it stopped snowing I gave him a fuel gift card. He wouldn't take it but I told him it was the principle. Hopefully your new neighbors will see that also. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

bczoom · Sep 14, 2005

( Now we have new neighbors next year. They are a little younger than us and seem to be a little tight for money or at least they act that way even though the house is bigger than ours.

They found out that I did both driveways and she wants me to keep doing it.)

Chris,

A couple thoughts.

You have a couple months (we hope) before the snow will stick enough to require removal. Can you get to know them a bit better between now and then? You might find they're willing to work with you on projects and such. It'll also give you an opportunity to see if they think you clearing the driveway is an entitlement or if buying the house just strapped them for cash (as it does most new homeowners).

You said "she" wants you to keep clearing the driveway. What does "he" say/think?

Brian

turnkey4099 · Sep 14, 2005

( ( Now we have new neighbors next year. They are a little younger than us and seem to be a little tight for money or at least they act that way even though the house is bigger than ours.

They found out that I did both driveways and she wants me to keep doing it.)

Chris,

A couple thoughts.

You have a couple months (we hope) before the snow will stick enough to require removal. Can you get to know them a bit better between now and then? You might find they're willing to work with you on projects and such. It'll also give you an opportunity to see if they think you clearing the driveway is an entitlement or if buying the house just strapped them for cash (as it does most new homeowners).

You said "she" wants you to keep clearing the driveway. What does "he" say/think?

Brian )

I have been wondering the same. I see nothing showing that there has been an actual discussion about the subject with the neighbor. I seriously doubt that even newbies expect free service. I would be having a friendly discussion about it with them. If they either can't or won't kick in with money or labor in exchange, nope, no plowing.

I have been caught in the 'nice guy' trap before and probably will be again but it will be with eyes open in the futurs. The topper was a so-called buddy in the service with no car. I gave him a ride a few times, then that graduated to him assuming (almost demanding) I was going to give him a 'ride' when I wasn't going anywhere. That ended it.

Harry K

greatrandini · Sep 14, 2005

I would not accept money because when u are doing a favor you are required to perform to your standard. When you are being paid ....they set the standard. I would start by assuming that they are good folk and will help u if u help them. If you find out they are just takers and not givers then just stop plowing the drive....Or just barely plow the parts that belong to them....I plow the neihbors drive and till his garden. He don't really do anything in return but I know if I need help I can ask him. They put up with our horses next door and they don't complain about anything I do. They had us over for a family gathering and are nice folks....We don't get alot of snow here so we are not talking about the same amount of work. I just do what can for them. They do not have any expectations or demands. If I was ill and did not plow they would not say anything. When I do plow for them they always say thanks....etc...

dmccarty · Sep 14, 2005

pennwalk,

I live on a private road that is about 2500 feet long of which I own 900 feet. Since I have roughly a third of the road to maintain I do the whole nine yards, so to speak. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif One neighbor has a BX but he does not maintain the gravel. Not sure if you can on a tractor that small. When I first bought the land I would mow most of the road. The neighbor would mow part of the road and I would get what was left. Most of what we are mowing is not our land but absentie owners or people who do not have the equipment to mow. Now more people have built houses, well two more famillies. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif My first neighbor and I still mow some parts of the road that one "new" family owns. He has a tractor but no mower. What the new guy does though is hand mow a section of road in front of his house that he owns as well as two lots owned by an absent owners. I get those lots as well if he has not had a chance to mow.

Our Mowing is getting done by three people regardless of who owns what land. Some of the land I don't have any need to mow but if I am out mowing and their land needs cut I'll drive down to do it. The BX neighbor has quite a bit of road that needs to be mowed. I'll even do what really is his driveway if it needs it. Even at todays fuel prices this does not take more than an hour at most so it costs me the hour and $2.79.

The last time I did this I was offered a beer which I turned down. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I also grade the road when it needs it. I did this twice since 2000 before people moved in and I have done it once since two other families arrived. I thought I would have to do this a couple times a year but that has not been the case. I supposed the BX could do the work but my 4700 can do it faster. My other neighbor does have a new tractor but he does not have the implements to mow or box blade. One day he will and I'm sure we will do the grading togather.

So far all of this works for us. Nobody has talked about any of this it just gets done. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

We might have one neighbor that might take advantage of this system but time will tell. This guy just does his land. Now I mow his portion of the road if it needs it and I am mowing. He has a riding lawn mower and mow far more often then I do. BUT, I have noticed that he won't mow a the section of road across from him that I used to own and is now in the hands of an absentie owner. I mow the frontage of course. Since this one guy won't help out his neighbors I won't be mowing for him anymore and their are other issues that time will tell. There has to be one person to spoil the pot....

IF one of the neighbors demanded I do the work that would be a whole new ball game. /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif Right now most everyone seems to be doing their share and helping out the others. As long as the continues then everything is okey dokey. Most of my neighbors try to get the work done with the tools that they have which is as it should be. I help then out when I can which is as it should be. But if they expected me to do their work for them, well I would not be helping them anymore....

Later,
Dan