How big an excavator?

[QwikDraw]

How big of an excavator would it take to put out the same production as an ASV RC100? Or at least close? In mixed stuff up to 6" hardwood?

I'm not talking cost to run or profit in the long run, just production. If I could get a excavator that could get 75% as much I would probably be happy.

I would love to think a 18K model could but I'm not sure. I've been getting a lot of one day jobs that I need both machines. If I only had to move one machine there....better profit, more toys!

How about it Fred or Robbie?

 

[Landwise]

I run a 9 ton Kubota now, with two different cutting heads. A Rock hound 30hd (Do not buy a 40 hd for a 9 ton machine, no matter what they tell you) and a Loftness Timberaxe. It will not cover the ground that my ASV or my Tak will, but it will do things that those two can't do.

I am thinking of selling it and buying a JD120 or a Tak 1140 that will handle the weight of the Timber axe a little better. That head with 26+ Gpm will mulch 6-7 with no problem. It just weighs too much for that small machine.

I am really looking forward to trying the new Cimaf (Hint, Hint, Hint robbie) before I sell my bota. It is an awesome machine.

 

[coopers]

Do you want to run a mower on it too or you talking about using a bucket with a hyd. thumb? I'm just curious, I don't have an asnwer because I don't know how quickly these machines you all own are. For some reason, here in WA it's just not as popular yet. I know of some guys that have the mower/cutter attachments on mini excavators but a skidsteer with the attachments you guys have just haven't caught on yet. I clear with an excavator because I always end up needing to take out stumps and stack logs and do other excavator type work. But I will say that if I get a job that is just brush clearing then I'll go your guys's route.

 

[coopers]

Landwise, your 080-3 isn't cutting it huh? Do you have pictures of your machine w/ the attachment...those 080-3's seem pretty burly, your attachment must be larger. JD makes great excavators...well, actually Hitatchi makes great JD excavators. If you like how a JD runs but don't want to pay the price, Hitatchi Zaxis models are generally a little cheaper.

 

[Landwise]

coopers-

There are a couple of pics on my web site Home I love the bota, it just isn't big enough to move that head around.

 

[coopers]

I see. Looks like you had an interesting day losing the 'bota to the soft ground. Not fun.

 

[Robbie Hegwood]

The 080 sized machine is in a sweet spot. Alot of tractor for it's size, good H.P. and flow, and is still trailerable with truck/trailer most of us run. There isn't much above it without going into the next class. Your CAT 320 series and equals. I've tried to pair up a CAT machine to the 080 and with not much luck, CAT has a gap here. JCB has one close and GEHL maybe. Plus maint. and who can work on it are is pretty easy.
I mounted our head on the 080 we are using for the demo and it's a good match. You can feel the weight but not tractor upsetting. We had hoses made Friday and a factory guy is flying in Monday to help me get it up and running. The little head is built like a tank.
I will post pictures and size material cut as soon as possible. Here's a few pics from the mounting party.

 

[Deere Doctor]

Kubota makes a good machine. If you like the 8 ton machine try the Takeuchi TB180FR. It can easily be equiped with high flow and should have better balance than the Kubota KX080. The Tak 1140 is an awsome machine but much larger at 14 tons. I believe it is the only one with a pivot boom in that size class.

 

[Landwise]

Kubota makes a good machine. If you like the 8 ton machine try the Takeuchi TB180FR. It can easily be equiped with high flow and should have better balance than the Kubota KX080. The Tak 1140 is an awsome machine but much larger at 14 tons. I believe it is the only one with a pivot boom in that size class.

I don't know about easily... I ran the TB175 (Which I will give credit-Is better balanced than the Bota) and it was a pain in the *&^ to try and get a high flow and Detent kit on that machine. I was renting to own that machine, had it for three months, and turned it in because they could not get it to work.

 

[deniscimafinc]

It is most interesting to read everyone's replies. As Robbie mentionned, it seems there is indeed a good market for the 8- or 9-tonne excavator-mounted brushcutters...

As you might know, we come from making excavator-mount brushcutters on larger machines. We started with models that were installed on 20- to 30-tonne class excavators (+/- 44000 lb to 66000 klb), and went down to smaller sizes only in the past 5 years, with the new DAH-080C this month...

So, if I had to recommend something in the past, I would have said go to a 22-tonne machine. They are often close in size to the 20-tonne, but with more power and hydraulics. Of course, going up to the 25-tonne class, you'd get even more power, but that difference in productivity might not be worth the difference on the price tags.

However, I realize that this recommendation would have been ok mainly for large-scale land-clearing contractors. For more normal-scale/semi-industrial/commercial operations (tell me what term you prefer), hauling the excavator is a major concern and that may decides what size of excavator to go to. As I'm not familiar with DOT requirements, I guess you're better listen to Robbie's comments


On the skid steer vs excavator question, if you want to compare them strictly on productivity, then you have more or less to send the same hydraulic power to the head of both carriers to get same production. Nice thing about the skid steers is their power/weight ratio is so high, so a lot of its mechanical power is actually converted to hydraulic power. On the excavator, you gain some reach but loose on the power/weight ratio.

If you compare them on production cost however, if I talk for our machines, based on feedbacks of our customers, you can expect to triple the life of your blades with an excavator (from +/- 100 hr on front-mount to 300 hr and more on excavator-mount). And that brings along less downtime to change the blades. And that gives better hourly costs.

Actually, we did some calculation here on the detailed costs of operation of our heads alone (short-term replacement parts, long-term term replacement parts, depreciation and financing costs). We didn't went as far a putting that in perspective with the operating costs of the complete carrier though. I think I'll try to work on that with Robbie during the next weeks...

But first, I'll let him try the DAH-080C and shot some nice video of it



Fred
Marketing, Sales, IT, and others...
DENIS CIMAF Inc.

 

[RAW]

So, what machines do you recommend for running the 050 and 060 heads?
And how much do those heads cost?

 

[Robbie Hegwood]

I don't know all the different models and specs but if you'll take a minute and look at our website you can pick a excavator from the specs. I personally like to go up one size when I find a fit to insure a good balance between tractor and head weight. Also some excavators have better hyd h.p. than a competitive size.
As mentioned on the thread attention Robbie and Fred we have the DAH-125D which is the next size up from the unit we demoing now. CB was looking at the 100h.p. range. That range has good stability and hyd flow.
I will work on a small list for the 050 thru the 125D range and get back to you.

 

[RAW]

I don't know all the different models and specs but if you'll take a minute and look at our website you can pick a excavator from the specs. I personally like to go up one size when I find a fit to insure a good balance between tractor and head weight. Also some excavators have better hyd h.p. than a competitive size.
As mentioned on the thread attention Robbie and Fred we have the DAH-125D which is the next size up from the unit we demoing now. CB was looking at the 100h.p. range. That range has good stability and hyd flow.
I will work on a small list for the 050 thru the 125D range and get back to you.

Yeah, in my original plan, I wanted to get a compact excavator (like a Kubota 161) . . . but I ended up with the Antonio Carraro tractor with carbide mulcher instead.

One of the factors in that decision . . . . talking to several different equipment suppliers . . . it became evident that some manufacturers of machines are optimistic in their claimed stats. And then some machines appear to match all of the specs for a particular piece of equipment, but . . . for some strange reason the machine won't handle the weight or balance of an implement very well, where another manufacturer's nearly identical carrier will handle it fine. I just got discouraged and irritated trying to find that info a few years ago.

My hope as these implements become more popular for excavators . . . is that good manufacturers will run their implements on several different carrier brands and be able to provide customers with detailed feedback.

 

[Robbie Hegwood]

The demo we are conducting is here in McDonough. You are welcome to come. The official date is Monday at 9 a.m. but I live very close to where we are keeping the tractors so any time this week I am available. To see one of these units in action is awsome. My cell number is 404-379-5897 if you need or want.
The factory has a very comprensive list of what we have installed heads on so we know exactly what works and how well it.
Side note. How do you like the carraro? What head are you running?

 

[RAW]

PM sent, Robbie

 

[DirtyWorks]

RAW - Which Antonio Carraro model do you run? How much PTO HP? I may be in the market for one for maintaining previously mulched areas. (orposibly adding to the mulching fleet) It looks interesting, especially the low profile and ability to be bi-directional. I was also looking at the New Hollands. TV140 http://www.tractorhouse.com/listings/detail.aspx?OHID=5354369&guid=6B927823FE5E48A9AFCFBF718835A8AA

 

[DirtyWorks]

Quick BTW I was not trying to Hijack . As far as how big an excavator, I hope my new Kubota 080-3 is big enough to keep up with the skids when I get the Cimaf head. I will let you know what I think as soon as I can. I may even take Robbie up on his invite if things work out in my schedule this week. I am a little skeptical but seeing is believing! If it dosent perform there may be one more low hour Kubota for sale! Although I may need a bigger tow vehicle if I go to a 12 ton machine..

 

[RAW]

RAW - Which Antonio Carraro model do you run? How much PTO HP? I may be in the market for one for maintaining previously mulched areas. (orposibly adding to the mulching fleet) It looks interesting, especially the low profile and ability to be bi-directional. I was also looking at the New Hollands. TV140 http://www.tractorhouse.com/listings/detail.aspx?OHID=5354369&guid=6B927823FE5E48A9AFCFBF718835A8AA

I've got the TRG 9400 with cab.
The engine horsepower is listed as 83 hp.

I'm not sure that I'm quite ready to sell it. I've barely been able to use it yet! I've only put about 12 hours on it, myself. The "front" tires are off getting foam filled. Then they'll all be done and ready for serious use.

Though if I see Robbie's excavator and implement in action . . . I may decide I've gotta have one!


And those New Holland bi-directionals are great. Too bad they're so darn big (and expensive).

 

[QwikDraw]

I've been in touch with the AC people too. I was looking at the TRH with the hydrostatic transmission. I wasn't sure how mulching with the other models would be having to switch gears all the time. I've been to the New Holland dealer too DW

I'm looking to change all my machine, looking for a better combination....

I need the tractor for some right of way mowing too.

 

[deniscimafinc]

RAW,

As seen on our website but with extra comments, here's what our recommendations are for our different models:

DAH-150E:
Our most popular model yet. Okay for 20- to 30-tonne excavators. Has been installed on pretty much every big names so far. One was installed also on a CAT 315 with a power pack, but that's not common use.

DAH-100E:
That's a short version of the DAH-150E. Same heavy-duty frame. Recommended for wheeled excavator 18- to 20-tonnes.

DAH-125D:
Replaces the DAH-060. Ok for 12- to 16-tonne excavators, or bigger if the machine will not be used to push the excavator. I wouldn't be comfortable to put a DAH-125D on a 20-tonne excavator knowing the operator would use it to push himself out of some places. But on a 20-tonne excavator on wheels, to work on roadsides only, I'd have no problem.

DAH-050:
We'll probably keep this one for 10- to 12-tonne excavators, even ok down to 8-tonne. Has been installed on Yanmar 75 in the past, but a bit bigger wouldn't have hurt. Was ok on Komatsu PC78.

DAH-080C:
That's the new baby Robbie is trying this week. So far, the Kubota 080 seems ok. I'll want it to be tried on other models and other brands after that, so we can see how small an excavator we can go. I think we'll be ok in the range 7- to 10- tonnes. Not sure we'll go smaller than that, though...


Uh-oh, maybe I should have written that in thousand pound instead. Sorry, I was born metric . Here's a quick, approximate conversion table:

30 tonne = +/- 66 klb
20 tonne : 44 klb
18 tonne : 40 klb
16 tonne : 35 klb
12 tonne : 26 klb
10 tonne : 22 klb
8 tonne : 18 klb
7 tonne : 15 klb

Of course, the recommendation are approximate. This rule of thumb is not exact science. For an official recommendation, I usually check:

1- what's the hydraulic capacity of the excavator?
If total flow x 0.4 is over or close to our minimum flow recommendation for one particular model, we are usually good. If looking for an excavator on which we never have installed a machine, the best is to obtain flow charts to see more in detail the kind of flows we get at different pressures.

2- what are the lifting capacities of the excavator?
In the spec sheet of an excavator, there are usually lifting capacities charts. Looking at max reach on the side, if capacity is close to be twice the weight of a particular model of brushcutter, we're good.


Hope this helps,