How Accidents Happen

[MossRoad]

I don't even have a neutral. There is no choice. It is always in gear. I find that to be a safety hazard, so I always turn it off and set the brake(which is a pin in slot type), as recommended in the Power Trac manual. EXCEPT, that I have to start it up and let it run for about 5-10 minutes in extremely cold weather. So I throw open the garage doors, sit on it, make sure that the brake is set, start it and then OH SO CAREFULLY, get off. There is just no way around it. I can't sit on it for 10 minutes idling in a garage or I would choke to death, even with good ventilation. I just take it as part of the hazards of operating a machine. You always have to keep your wits about you and move slowly and purposely or you will get hurt. That goes for any machine, power tool, even a hammer. Use it wrong and you get hurt.

 

[MChalkley]

MossRoad - Does your PT have the same right foot forward/left foot reverse treadle that the 24xx machines have? If so, you could very easily install a solenoid that was manually switched, or perhaps seat pressure switched, that would lock it in the center position. That might make you feel a little better about it - and make it safer to get on or off, as well.

 

[MossRoad]

Yup. If you get off on either side, you stand a good chance of either stepping on or hooking your foot under one of the pedals. So where would you put the solenoid? Which side? Neither? Maybe a slot and pin similar to the brake?

There are times(like the warmup mentioned before) that I would like to get off of the unit while it is running. One project that comes to mind is a log splitter.

And one other safety note on an articulated tractor. If it is running, and you try to get off of it, where do you step and what do you hang on to? You step down right next to the unit and grab the steering wheel for balance. Then you end up pulling the steering wheel and the unit articulates right around your leg!/w3tcompact/icons/shocked.gif This was mentioned prominently in the manual as a pinch point. All in all, I think they could make the unit safer at the factory by installing direction and steering locks hooked to a seat pressure switch. And if one of the safety devices malfunctions, that is almost worse, because people depend on them. Where do you draw the line when manufacturing a product? You can't make a product fool proof, just fool resistant/w3tcompact/icons/tongue.gif.

 

[Alan L.]

I've had a couple of close calls on my 2710. I have accidentally hit the pedal on the way off, causing the tractor to lurch forward or backward. Its dangerous, especially if someone else was nearby to get hit or run over.

 

[MChalkley]

MossRoad - My thought was to put the solenoid in the center, as far from the pivot point as possible.

I don't remember the exact sizing of the pinch point where the smaller PT's articulate, but you'd have to be in a really specific spot and move the wheel quite a bit to get pinched with the bigger ones. Maybe you could install a grab handle, so you don't need the steering wheel for support. I don't think I'd want to install a locking device on the steering wheel, though you could perhaps use one that retracts by means of an internal spring when it's not powered.

 

[jhburke]

I have a b7500 hst. I have always on my b7200 droped the fel to the ground as a brake. JIM

 

[MossRoad]

I was thinking of a way of locking the steering hydraulics, not the wheel itself. Some sort of electric soleniod in the hydraulic line. It wouldn't be too hard either. I dont know if the same could be done for the directional hydraulics or not.

As far as a grab handle, there is a much more logical one... the ROPS is right there in front on both sides. People just tend to grab the wheel because it is familiar from their car driving experience.

 

[MChalkley]

MossRoad - Yeah, you could put the lockout on the hydraulic line, but you'd be actuating the relief valve every time you touched the wheel. Either way, you'd want to make sure the "default" position of the solenoid was "unlocked". Another possibility, depending on the steering wheel configuration, would be to use a solenoid to provide a friction brake function for the wheel, that way, you could still turn the wheel by overcoming the braking resistance, in case of a malfunction.

 

[Buck]

Jinman.

<font color=blue>"I grew up standing up on a tractor when needed and I still do."</font color=blue>

Those guys over there in the Seat Belt thread would love to hear from you!

Best of luck,

Buck

 

[Charlie_Iliff]

MossRoad & MChalkley:
I'm a bit late into this thread. My PT 1845 has an engine kill seat switch. When you get off, it kills the engine and sets the brakes. Due to impatience, therefore, I don't warm it as thoroughly as can be done with the 425. (I haven't tried a cinder block on the seat) I just move slowly until the temp gauge comes up.
Someday I may get a post driver. Either it will require two people, or I'll have to inactivate the seat switch.
For now, I'll get used to it, although starting and stopping the engine can't be as good for it as letting it idle.

 

[mdbarb]

Just just happened to me also - I was climbing in the right side and my foot contacted the forward pedal - the tractor lurched forward a coupla feet brushing my left leg! Had I been a little lower on the tire I would have run overmyself!
Needless to say I ALWAYS use the left side now - its more open and easier anyway. I was just being a little lazy which is how most accidents happen.

 

[RAllen]

Since the thread has drifted a bit- still on topic but drifted from how accidents happen, I would like to go back to Hayden's original post.

First, thanks Hayden and others for posting potential problems resulting on the short cuts we all tend to take.

Most accidents are a combination of two or more unsafe actions we take. When using such powerful equipment, the results can be death or maiming. These unsafe practices usually have a low probability of causing an accident but when you roll the dice enough, "snake eyes" is bound to roll up. Ususally, the first time you get off a tractor on the "wrong side" you are careful. It worked and may have saved you a second or two. Probably, the next 20 times you try it, there is no problem. But the day you are in a hurry, don't set the brake or cut the engine , its raining and little more slippery than normal...

You get the message.

We all do stupid things- I do more than my share- and I really encourage everyone to post the boneheaders here so all of us can benefit.

Thanks Hayden

Rick

 

[hayden]

I'll bet you can't make one.!


With that, you'll have a design and first implementation to share with by sunday evening. We'll be watching for the post.

 

[jinman]

<font color=blue>Those guys over there in the Seat Belt thread would love to hear from you!</font color=blue>

I bet they would! I've stayed away on purpose from some discussions because it's all so subjective. I actually wear my seatbelt most of the time, but if I need to stand up, off it comes until I sit down again. I also fold my ROPS anytime I go into my post oak woods because I got tired of taking out limbs (I really get into the brush.) Like most safety equipment, sometimes it's appropriate and sometimes it's not. Everyone has to be responsible for their own level of safety...or at least that's my opinion.

 

[hayden]

oh, oh , oh, I got an idea. A solonoid-controlled "vent" on the HST hydraulics. It could be seat or otherwise activated (seat's the obvious one to me). All it does is open the pressure side of the hydraulics and provide a bypass back to the tank. No hydraulic pressure - no movement.

It might also lessen the breaking effect of HST which would be a down side.

 

[MChalkley]

Hayden - I'm sure it could be done, but it's more complicated than I'd want to mess with. /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif I like the simplicity of a plain old solenoid-plunger-through-a-hole approach. If anything ever goes drastically wrong, you can always just remove the solenoid and everything's just like it was before you messed with it, except for one hole you drilled somewhere...

 

[AndyR]

I realize it is an anathema/w3tcompact/icons/tongue.gif to propose a simple solution/w3tcompact/icons/shocked.gif - but how about a bar across the right side, just an inch or two above the HST pedal? 'Wouldn't want to give up right side access, though it is cumbersome and I have indeed had a few times where I tapped the pedal inadvertantly. A bar from the firewall to the fender would keep you clear of the pedals while not making it much worse to get out that side (bar would have to clear the brake pedals too) and still give you clearance underneath to wash out the mud.

I really hate seat sensors as I like to stand sometimes to navigate tight spots and (unlike some of you flatlanders/w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif ) we've got plenty of hills and rocks - sos ya bounce sometimes/w3tcompact/icons/crazy.gif . The only logical place I saw for a solenoid on the L3710 is under the deck and things are a bit tight in there - not impossible, just more difficult.

 

[paccorti]

My TC35 will shut down if I get off and it is either: in gear OR the brakes are not set. While it is a pain sometimes ('cause I'm lazy) it has encouraged good habits for me. Realistically is there any good reason NOT to set the brakes and put it in neutral when you hop off? Compared to the time getting on and off the tractor is the two seconds to set the brakes significant?

On a related note be careful with kids. The first time I took my tractor for a test drive, my 4 year old son climbed up on the right side. Well you know kids, they'll use anything for a handhold including HST pedals! Fortunately I was in neutral and had my foot on the brake. My new rules? My son wants to ride with me he MUST board on the left... no exceptions.

Peter

 

[MChalkley]

AndyR - You're right: your solution is too simple. /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

One of the things I like about using a light pressure solenoid plunger to lock the pedal is that you could still stand if you needed to - the plunger would only lock the pedal after it returned to the neutral position.