hours

Anonymous Poster · Dec 18, 2002

First I would like to say how great it is to read all the info here. i'm learning alot. Thank you everyone.
My question is concerning hours. I'm looking for a tractor, I don't know if it will be used or not but if it is used, what is considered low hours or high hours? How many hours a year do most of you put on your tractors? Thanks for your input.

RoyJackson · Dec 18, 2002

When I bought my '91 Deere 670, it had 600 hours on the meter. That's roughly 50 hours per year. I've put another 50 hours on it in the last 18 months.
Now, that's a mechanical meter. Everything I've read about mechanical meters indicate they're only accurate at PTO speed, so I reckon there's more actual usage hours then 650 (now).
It would also depend on the type of usage. Mine is used for mowing, snow pushing and some loader work by two operators (the original owner and me). Pretty soft life for a tractor.
A rental or commercial unit with the same hours might be run into the ground.

IMHO, a thousand hours would be the cutoff being "low" hours and "high" hours. Of course, that's strictly an arbitrary number. It really depends on the overall condition of the machine.

BB_TX · Dec 18, 2002

Like used cars, condition, care, and maintenance are important. You will find low hour models in worse condition than some high hour ones. I relate it somewhat to my truck. My 97 F150 has 115,000 miles on it. At an average 40 miles per hour, that is 2875 hours and it is still in great condition. My previous truck had 208,000 miles (5200 hours) with very little wrong with it. Tractors are built heavier and I believe most tractors with proper care will go at least 5,000 hours without major mechanical problems. I put less than 100 hours a year on mine so I expect it to outlast me.

markie61 · Dec 18, 2002

I'm buying a New Holland with 31hours on it in 6 months of ownership - I think that's low.

You may get an idea from the manufacturer's warranties:
Kubota is 2 year/1500 hours - 3 year/2000 hours powertrain on the L series. My NH had a 5 year/3000 hour warranty on the emissions system. That being the case, it sounds like manufacturers expect 600-700 hours per year on a compact tractor.

I would want to see maintenace records for any used tractor I bought, plus it would be worth it to me to have diagnostics done on it from a trained mechanic. I understand that the warranty on a tractor follows the tractor (not just the original owner) BUT you may not be a priority unless the tractor was sold from that dealership. Kubota's own warranty states that "dealer's own customers may have priority."

New is great - no warts and a full warranty. Used within a warranty period is great - less depreciation and partial warranty. Used is generally "as-is" - unless you negotiate a warranty from the a dealer's used lot.

Good luck!

Mark

PS There are a couple bargains to be had out there new - quality tractors that are priced like used ones. I would specifically steer you to looking at Branson, Century, TYM/Scorpion, Mahindra (the KOREAN ones!), Long Agribusiness (again, the KOREAN ones!) and Kioti IF (big IF) they can be had from a reputable dealer with a good service shop.

PPS I didnt know that Deere measured hours at PTO speed. All the hour meters that I have installed had a sending unit off the ignition, so the clock ran when it sensed electricity in the systerm regardless of what the PTO was doing. Makes sense if it is mechanical - slower engine RPMs = slower spinning of the clock.

frank_f15 · Dec 18, 2002

with most compact tractors , hrs. are measured at pto speed. my b2400 for instance at pto speed is quite accurate. but most tractors are not run at pto spedd most of the time, if u decide on a used and it has a mech. hr. meter i would add about 15 to 20% of the showing hours. also who owned the tractor has a lot to do with it. 1000 hrurs put on by a homeowner is a lot diff, than 1000 hrs on a rental or business unit.

BillyP · Dec 18, 2002

I have a JD 4610. The hour meter runs when the tractor is running. The meter may run slower at say idle but I doubt it. However it works, it gives one a good reference when to service the tractor.

As far as hours per year, I'd say 350 a year would be about right. Of course that doesn't matter if the tractor hasn't been taken care of (as has been mentioned).

If you're buying used, there's plenty of almost new compacts out there.

Billy

Bird · Dec 18, 2002

The meter may run slower at say idle but I doubt it

Just for the information of those who are not already aware of it, there are basically two different kinds of hour meters on tractors that I am familiar with and since I've had both kinds (on the same brand of tractors), I'll use them as an example. One is simply an electric "clock" as I had on a 1995 Kubota B7100. The hour meter ran, and always at the same speed, anytime the key was turned on - actually made no difference whether the engine was even running or not. The other type (some call mechanical) was what my 1999 Kubota B2710 had. The hour meter was directly related to the revolutions of the engine and calibrated to count one hour at PTO speed, so at PTO speed (in my case 2640 rpm if I remember right), it would register one hour in one hour, but at slower speeds, as when I was using the front end loader, it could easily run two hours or even more before registering an hour on the meter. Personally, I like the latter type better since it's a better indicator of the number of times that engine has turned over.

Steelfan · Dec 18, 2002

I don't have much to add to Bird's post. I'm very happy to see him back. I hope he knows that we count on his wisdom. Please help us, when you can.

Kent

frank_f15 · Dec 19, 2002

Personally, I like the latter type better since it's a better indicator of the number of times that engine has turned over.


Bird: excellent point . never thought of it that way./w3tcompact/icons/blush.gif

OkieG · Dec 19, 2002

Roy,

I have no idea if the "clock" that runs the hour meter on my little JD is mechanical or electric, but your comment is interesting. I never would have guessed there was such a thing as a mechanical clock that would vary it's rate with engine speed.

My engine is not usually run at PTO speed (3250rpm), but usually more like 2000-2500rpm. I noticed early-on that each 1/10 of an hour on the meter (6 minutes worth) actually took 7-8 minutes to turn over. When I mentioned it to the crusty old JD mechanic at the dealership, he looked surprised and said he'd never paid any attention to hour meters to see how fast they turned over. So, it's been a mystery to me until I read your post.

OkieG

BB_TX · Dec 19, 2002

If your hour meter is built into your tach, and it only has a speedometer type cable and no wires (except for a light), then it is mechanical. If it is external to the tach, and/or has 2 or more wires, then it is probably electric.
The mechanical types are basically the same as an odometer, calibrated (geared) to count 1 after a defined number of revolutions. That number of revolutions is calculated to be the number that would occur during a 1 hour period at a defined rpm (normal PTO speed).

BillyP · Dec 19, 2002

I kinda like the electric hour meter myself. Since no one has there tractor sitting with the key on (without it running), it is a fairly true indication of how many hours the engine has run. T

Billy

WVBill · Dec 19, 2002

"Since no one has there tractor sitting with the key on (without it running), it is a fairly true indication of how many hours the engine has run.
On the other hand, my Kubota B6100 will run just fine with the key in my pocket so I guess the hour meter could be made to seriously under indicate the actual number of engine hours. I don't think the reverse could happen (i.e. the meter running if you leave the key in after shutting down the tractor) because I'm pretty sure that the hour meter is powered by the generator (dynamo) not the battery.

BillyP · Dec 19, 2002

I don't understand your post Bill. You don't need to have the ignition on for your tractor to run?

As far as tampering with the hours. That's no big deal, if that's what a person wants to do. Wouldn't matter which kind of hour meter it had.

Billy

WVBill · Dec 19, 2002

"You don't need to have the ignition on for your tractor to run?"

Nope. Diesel needs no electricity to keep running. The only electrical use on my tractor with the key in the "run" position is the hour meter, and/or if I have my headlights on, beep the horn or the oil pressure drops and the warning light comes on.

You're right about the dishonest person...

BB_TX · Dec 19, 2002

Not true on all tractors. On mine, turning off the key does not kill the engine. You must shut off the throttle. Unfortunately, you can shut off the throttle and kill the engine and forget to turn off the key. If you don't notice and leave it that way, it will run down the battery. Don't ask how I know. /w3tcompact/icons/blush.gif

BillyP · Dec 19, 2002

I see what you're talking about now Bill, sorry. Mine has an electric fuel solenoid, so you have to use the ignition to start and stop the engine.

By the way, about the electric hour meter. On my tractor, with the key on and engine not running, the hour meter does not advance. So I reckon you're right about it working off the alternator.

frank_f15 · Dec 19, 2002

BILL: on my 98 b2400, if i shut the key off the engine quits and the lights go out the only thing that will work with key in the off position are the flashers. now my buddies b8200 is a whole differt breed. it don't need the key in the on position to run.