Hot asphalt in their 14' goose neck dump trailer?

[paulharvey]

For ~$350/day you can rent a 5 ton roller from United Rental or Sunbelt. For a drive way I would even consider something like a 2 ton dual steel wheel asphalt roller and use vibro on it.

Spreader box: we have used a box blade tractor to spread asphalt in intersection radii and pipe cuts before, just hand shovel some hot mix in the tire tracks rake it in before rolling it.. and this was fairly major intersections on county roads (10,000+ trips per day roads), not on the top lift, but but it works

 

[Egon]

If you are working on the " paycheck to paycheck" principle make sure you leave a nice square joint ramped down with tarpaper and asphalt.

 

[msmith1wa]

This reply has some assumptions based on your two posts thus far.

I presume you plan on filling your roller tank with water. If so it's weight would be about 2700 lbs of water plus the tank, 600 lbs based on a google search so closer to 3300 lbs. I looked up the weight of the smaller rollers that contractors typically use and they weigh about 3700 lbs and have vibratory drums. It's probably a toss up if your planned roller project or a small walk behind plate compactor would be best.

It is typically recommended that the asphalt depth for a driveway be 2". If you are willing to risk a shorter life you could go to 1.5".

In your OP you stated you plan on 50 tons in 5 days and in your second post you mention building a 10' spreader box. So I am going to assume (there it is again) your driveway is 10' wide. In case you have not figured out how far you can go, 50 tons placed 2" deep and 10' wide is only going to cover a section about 29.5' long assuming the grade you are placing it on is perfect. This ends up being 2 loads per day in your trailer and about a 6' long section per day. If you stick with this production rate it might be worth using screed rails and either back dragging with a loader bucket or use a box blade. For this production rate I it is not worth renting a roller for a week.

You will need to leave a square edge to but the next days placement as well as when funds become available to continue and a ramp at the end during the time you are saving $$$ for the next section. Because of the number of joints from starting and stopping and probably less than ideal compaction I would recommend sealing the surface to prevent water getting into the asphalt.

I see some of my comments were addressed by others while I was writing this.

 

[paulharvey]

It is typically recommended that the asphalt depth for a driveway be 2". If you are willing to risk a shorter life you could go to 1.5".

In your OP you stated you plan on 50 tons in 5 days and in your second post you mention building a 10' spreader box. So I am going to assume (there it is again) your driveway is 10' wide. In case you have not figured out how far you can go, 50 tons placed 2" deep and 10' wide is only going to cover a section about 29.5' long assuming the grade you are placing it on is perfect. This ends up being 2 loads per day in your trailer and about a 6' long section per day. If you stick with this production rate it might be worth using screed rails and either back dragging with a loader bucket or use a box blade. For this production rate I it is not worth renting a roller for a week.

[/QUOTE]

Superpave Aspahalt runs between 107#-111#/square yard compacted. Most people just use 110# as a round number. 50 tons will go 450 sy (x9 for sq ft) =4050 sf / 10 ft width=400 ft of 10 ft wide, 2" thick asphalt.

About rollers, at 4000# asphalt roller is roughly 32" wide, and a 10 ft wide 4000# roller will no get much compaction.

 

[Egon]

When you fellows talk about 2in. is that pre or post compaction?

I would sugest that 2 in. compacted on a steep hill is money wasted.

 

[paulharvey]

Compacted to between 93-97%, in other words rolled. When we core a new road, we check actual asphalt thickness after paving and rolling operation is finished. Asphalt typically compacts between 3/16" and 1/4" per inch. So in order to get 2", you actually lay 2-1/2" loose. I use the term loose loosely because you really get some in your initial compaction from the screen on the paver.

As a former (as of a month ago) road inspector, we relied on the spread rate if material more then depth sticks. Spread rate doesnt lie.

 

[msmith1wa]

The 2" depth is compacted since you are not using a paving machine you will probably need to add a little more than paulhavey recommended.

I agree with paulharvey that the typical compaction percent is between 93%-97%. The county that I work for follows Washington state road building specs and their minimum compaction is 91%. To explain what these percents mean. A sample of the mix is collect from a truck at the plant and is taken to a lab and a specific gravity (rice density) is performed to determine the weight per cubic foot the mix (aggregate and asphalt oil) would have if there were no air voids. The percent compaction is a percentage of this value. The lower the compaction the shorter the life of the pavement will be.

Thanks for catching my mistake on the length. Doing the calculation backwards of what I am used to I missed a step. The way I am used to doing the calculation is LxWxD/27 cubic ft/CY*2.05 tons/CY=tons of mix. The L W D are in feet.

The spread rate is only accurate if the surface you are placing the mix on is perfect.

Now that I have been corrected on how far the mix will go I am going to agree with paulharvey's recommendation on renting a roller. This is going to be too much to do with a plate compactor and your home made roller wont do much. I checked a rental yard's rate in my area the smallest vibratory roller they have goes for $225 a day or $700 a week. This may sound like a lot of money but it is better than having your new pavement fall apart in a year. Don't bother with a small static roller it won't do enough compaction.

This should be obvious, but make sure the surface to are placing the mix on is firm, any soft spots will result in failure of the asphalt.

Some one said that 2" on a hill is not enough in the county we have a lot of roads in residential areas that have much heavier traffic than a driveway will see that last just fine. Now on an arterial 2" doesn't last long.

While typing this I had a thought that might be worth considering since compacting the mix is likely to be your biggest problem. If you have soils that infiltrate well you could consider using pervious HMA. A portion of my driveway is paved with this kind of pavement. Besides being called pervious, it might be called open graded friction course or permeable friction course. With permeable pavement you don't want to compact it too much because then the water won't go through. Normally permeable asphalt also would have a layer of clean crushed rock to act as a storage area for the water if there is more rain than can be soaked up by the ground, but if your soil soaks up the water fast enough you might be able to eliminate the storage layer. A couple things that would make my idea not workable is you should have a minimum of 3" compacted, it is not recommended on steep areas and you probably won't be able to get it unless the plant is producing it for another customer. The area of my driveway that is not pervious, is the asphalt the everyone is used to seeing because it is a 15% slope.

I am trying to explain things without getting too technical and I hope I am not scaring you too much. It's just that I have seen a lot of times where someone got in a hurry to get a project done or was not prepared and the new pavement was falling apart the next day in my 20+ years as a road construction inspector.

Yes I am an asphalt nerd.

 

[Egon]

Two inches of asphalt on base that probably isn't all that good ain't gonna last on a steep gradient.

 

[paulharvey]

I got to thinking about Egons statement and I have a thought. 1.5" of old marshal mixes have held up well for 15+ years of 5,000+ trips a day on as little as 6" of limerock base through out the south east. But, ... if you got to an old subdivision or cul-di-sac that was never built out, the asphalt doesnt hold up as well as a moderately traveled road. Im guessing that the unused roads grow grass, and no traffic wears it off? I have heard of problems with airport taxiways failing despite very little traffic, over extended time periods.

The facts: the county I worked for as an engineering inspector (1 month ago) and our minimum for asphalt driveway (residential) is 1.5" asphalt, and 6" of limerock base. Our access roads used 1.5" of asphalt in 8-10" of lime rock. Our main 4 lane roads used 1" friction, 2" sp-12.5, 10" rock, and 12" stabilized subgrade.

 

[msmith1wa]

In my opinion the steepness of the grade has little to do with the pavement failing. As an example one of the other inspectors in my department had a project that had temporary widening placed to shift traffic to provide space for the construction activity on the other side of the road. The asphalt in this widening was 6" deep placed on 2" of 1 1-4" crushed rock. This was not a steep grade. The problem was the existing soil in the area was not firm and the inspector was telling our boss that it wasn't going to last, but the boss told him to do it anyway. The widening failed overnight and had to be redone.

My county only cares about the portion of the driveway that is between the the edge of the road and property line. For residential this portion is required to be a minimum of 2" of asphalt and 2" of either 5/8- or 1 1/4- crushed rock or you can us 6" of concrete on native soil. Once you get the property line my county doesn't care.

For our low traffic roads it's 2" min asphalt, 2" min crushed rock, and 6" gravel base (4" minus with little fines, more like sand with rocks). On higher volume an engineer is required to determine what is needed.

I have seen the same thing on roads with little to no traffic.