Hmmmmm, navichevy?

[wroughtn_harv]

Navistar

It seems navistar is buying GM's medium and heavy duty truck business.

 

[Builder]

Navistar

It seems navistar is buying GM's medium and heavy duty truck business.

Yeah, that's been out a while now. Just a handshake deal as of now.

Just think, no more Duramaxes in the 4500-7500. Gonna be IH "Maxxforce" diesels.

IH will be building GM's mediums, most of Ford's mediums and of course, IH's own mediums & heavies.

 

[Z-Michigan]

The Navistar engine is going in them? Ack. I was hoping IH was going to get to use the DMAX engine and maybe GM's 8.1L gasoline V8 as well. With current fuel prices and the 2007+ emissions standards I am starting to see that gas is a viable option in some truck uses.

I'll miss GM making medium duties. I think it added to their overall knowledge having true serious trucks in the same lineup with some albeit limited parts crossover. Now that they've sold this and Allison, they look just like every other vanilla carmaker.

 

[Builder]

The Navistar engine is going in them? Ack. I was hoping IH was going to get to use the DMAX engine and maybe GM's 8.1L gasoline V8 as well. With current fuel prices and the 2007+ emissions standards I am starting to see that gas is a viable option in some truck uses.

I can't see how they (IH) would put Isuzu diesels in them when IH has their own house brand like the 6.4L and the DT466E. They'd be losing sales, service & parts on thousands of diesel engines sold per year.

"I'll miss GM making medium duties. I think it added to their overall knowledge having true serious trucks in the same lineup with some albeit limited parts crossover. Now that they've sold this and Allison, they look just like every other vanilla carmaker.

Agree 100%. This basically spells the end of an era for GM in serious trucks. Really sad that Ford & GM are DONE with anything bigger than a pickuptruck while Toyota, Nissan, Isuzu & Mitsu continue to get bigger in bigger trucks.

 

[john_bud]

And who want's that 6.4l disaster that is used in the Fords????

jb

 

[JESSE1]

The 6.4 is proving to be a good engine. Where are you hearing otherwise? Even the 6.0 became a good engine after the bugs were worked out of it. Most of the problems seem to come from people who never owned one.

 

[CumminsLuke]

Well, they can only improve the brand. I have driven IH 4700's that had a tighter cab at 250k miles than brand new medium duty GM's I have owned.

 

[Robert_in_NY]

The 6.4 is proving to be a good engine. Where are you hearing otherwise? Even the 6.0 became a good engine after the bugs were worked out of it. Most of the problems seem to come from people who never owned one.

I agree, so far I am very happy with our 6.0 and as long as we properly maintain the truck I don't see us having the majore problems like the first year models.

Anyway, isn't the 6.4l that International uses different then the one they put in the Fords? I mean as far as not needing all the emmisions junk.

 

[workinallthetime]

The Navistar engine is going in them? Ack. I was hoping IH was going to get to use the DMAX engine and maybe GM's 8.1L gasoline V8 as well. With current fuel prices and the 2007+ emissions standards I am starting to see that gas is a viable option in some truck uses.

I'll miss GM making medium duties. I think it added to their overall knowledge having true serious trucks in the same lineup with some albeit limited parts crossover. Now that they've sold this and Allison, they look just like every other vanilla carmaker.

they only sold part of allison, the military and commercial side not the truck side. They still retain the part that makes the transmissions used by gm, ford and dodge and many others. Medium duty has been for sale for a long time, GM is getting rid of a bunch of weight to start over from what i see. that allison deal was 60 billion. with all the trouble they are having they will just have to try and stay a float till the uaw quits trying to ride their wake.

 

[JESSE1]

The 6.4 Ford uses is probably different in the same way the 6.0 or 7.3 was different. International uses their own computer system for the emissions requirements for heavy trucks. Ford has to comply with emissions for light trucks. The basic engines should be pretty much the same.

 

[wroughtn_harv]

The 6.4 Ford uses is probably different in the same way the 6.0 or 7.3 was different. International uses their own computer system for the emissions requirements for heavy trucks. Ford has to comply with emissions for light trucks. The basic engines should be pretty much the same.

Specifications
Configuration: V8
Displacement: 6.4L (390 cu in)
Power Output: 200-230 hp (149 - 171 kW) @ 2,600rpm
Peak Torque: 560-620 lb. ft.(759 - 840 N m) @ 1,400rpm
Aspiration: Turbocharged
Combustion System: Direct Injection
B10/B50 Life: 262,500/375,000 miles
Dry Engine Weight: 1,150 lbs.

That's from the navistar maxforce specifications. One has to wonder if we're going to have another sue countersue between Ford and Navistar over Ford pushing out so much more out of the same motor.

 

[JESSE1]

I think the engines will hold up fine for pickup use. The pickup horsepower wars won't allow lower horsepower ratings. A medium duty truck is going to be loaded out most all the time. Most pickups probably don't carry a full load 10% of the time, if that much. Few pickups are going to be driven that many miles, at least by the original owners. Exception would be a hot shot driver.

 

[Rara Avis]

Yeah, that's been out a while now. Just a handshake deal as of now.

Just think, no more Duramaxes in the 4500-7500. Gonna be IH "Maxxforce" diesels.

IH will be building GM's mediums, most of Ford's mediums and of course, IH's own mediums & heavies.

Well...the 6500 and 7500 still have the CAT Diesel C7 and the Isuzu 6H engine options...

 

[Builder]

Well...the 6500 and 7500 still have the CAT Diesel C7 and the Isuzu 6H engine options...

For now, but that's because they're still made by GM in Flint, MI. After the sale to IH is completed, you won't see IH buying Isuzu diesels and installing them on their assembly lines...

You have to remember, this is just a handshake deal for now. No ownership of factory assembly line proceedures have changed yet.

 

[Builder]

The 6.4 is proving to be a good engine. Where are you hearing otherwise? Even the 6.0 became a good engine after the bugs were worked out of it. Most of the problems seem to come from people who never owned one.

Yeah, but by the time the "bugs were worked out", there were tens of thousands of ticked-off Ford 6L diesel owners. I read some owners even went as far as class action lawsuits against Ford. Most, like me a loyal 15 time Ford truck buyer, switched to GM's with DMAX/Allisons in them. Ford lost quite a bit of diesel truck sales to GM diesel trucks.
I don't see what's so great about the 6.4L. It makes less torque at low RPM than the DMAX or Cummins.....isn't a diesel's hallmark virtue low end grunt torque? It has 2 turbo chargers making it more complex than the DMAX or Cummins and has no more power whatsoever.

 

[capt_met]

i thought i had read somewhere that part of the splitting ways between GM and isuzu was GM maintaining and owning the duramax diesel engine. as part of that it included the 7.8 and 6.6. i could be wrong but that is how i understood it. future emissions could have a bigger effect on whether these engines will be available.

 

[Builder]

i thought i had read somewhere that part of the splitting ways between GM and isuzu was GM maintaining and owning the duramax diesel engine. as part of that it included the 7.8 and 6.6. i could be wrong but that is how i understood it. future emissions could have a bigger effect on whether these engines will be available.

They will definately keep the 6.6L simply because GM owns that diesel 100% and assebles it here stateside. GM will continue to use that engine in all the 2500-4500HD's. GM bought all the rights to the 6.6L that Isuzu had remaining. However, the 7.8L is still an Isuzu owned diesel.

It would be possible, but hard to imagine GM medium duty trucks going down an IH assembly line having Duramax 7.8L medium duty diesels tossed in them when the DT466 is already in IH's stable. I guess anything's possible, but you'd think IH would make exclusive right to diesel engines in the IH built GM trucks as part of the deal.

 

[capt_met]

ok, that clears it up. wasn't sure about the 7.8. i've heard good things about the engine but like you said the DT466 appears to be a benchmark engine for med. duties wouldn't need to have both.
Merry Christmas

 

[Builder]

ok, that clears it up. wasn't sure about the 7.8. i've heard good things about the engine but like you said the DT466 appears to be a benchmark engine for med. duties wouldn't need to have both.
Merry Christmas

That 7.8L Isuzu is every bit as good. It just hasn't been around as long.

Like you said, the 466 is the benchmark, but it's also a 40 yr old design.....

It will be interesting to see if IH simply builds the GM MD's as they are right now with Isuzu diesels, or has enough leverage in the deal to force GM to swith over to IH diesels.

 

[JESSE1]

Yeah, but by the time the "bugs were worked out", there were tens of thousands of ticked-off Ford 6L diesel owners. I read some owners even went as far as class action lawsuits against Ford. Most, like me a loyal 15 time Ford truck buyer, switched to GM's with DMAX/Allisons in them. Ford lost quite a bit of diesel truck sales to GM diesel trucks.
I don't see what's so great about the 6.4L. It makes less torque at low RPM than the DMAX or Cummins.....isn't a diesel's hallmark virtue low end grunt torque? It has 2 turbo chargers making it more complex than the DMAX or Cummins and has no more power whatsoever.

I think the basic engine design of the 6.0 was good. The original computer program had to be changed too many times. The '04 F-350 6.0 I traded in gave me good service. The people I know with 6.0's don't seem to have any major problems with them. Problems get amplified over the internet. Kinda like saying the DuraMax would be a failure because of the aluminum heads. I've never heard of a head failure on the Duramax.

My '08 F-450 6.4 so far has been an excellent engine. Time will tell but it is a world apart from the 7.3 and even the 6.0 in power and drivability. The starting is instant, power is seamless. I agree that it seems much too complicated with the twin turbos. That system is several years old now since it has been used in the 4.5 Powerstroke in the LCF trucks built for both Ford and IH. Haven't heard that it's giving any particular problems.