Help!!!
- Thread starter Ozarker
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RobS
Super Member
I'm clueless on your specific application but most clutches I've been into the throwout bearing has springs or clips to hold it to the release lever, not the housing /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Here is a blow up of the parts. Item 24 is the bearing, item 23 is the holder for the bearing and item 38 is the spring. There are two of them....one on each side.
Hoping that one of the guys that routinely repair these can give me an idea of how it goes back together.
Hoping that one of the guys that routinely repair these can give me an idea of how it goes back together.
Attachments
Glenn9643
Veteran Member
Can't tell much from the drawing but could item 25 be the fork for the throwout bearing? It's got to mount to something that will move it when the clutch is engaged and that looks to me like the best bet from here.
OrangeGuy
Gold Member
Looks like the spring (s) connect to the throwout bearing housing and then back into the clutch bell housing. Look in the bell housing for holes that may have cotter keys in or holes where the cotter key (s) are missing. Often times these springs were attached to the "loop" end of a cotter key pushed through a bell housing hole and spread on the outside.
Don't know your specific tractor but going from memory of some of my old timers.
OrangeGuy
Don't know your specific tractor but going from memory of some of my old timers.
OrangeGuy
MMM
Platinum Member
Is it possible 24 attaches to 25 instead of bellhouse? I don't see holes, but that's not the best drawing.
Yes, item 25 is the fork. There is no way to attach the springs to the fork. The last person that had it apart attached the throwout bearing to the fork with a nylon tie. I posted a picture of that in my "You've got to be kidding me" thread.
Here is a link to that picture....I hope:
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forumfiles/462853-Tie.jpg
Here is a link to that picture....I hope:
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forumfiles/462853-Tie.jpg
caddison
Gold Member
Ozarker,
Typically the throw out bearing is attached to the fork or carrier by some sort of spring clip. Can you post a picture of the bearing, springs and fork? I would imagine the springs attach to the bearing and then back to the fork. When properly adjusted you should have a little bit of free play in the clutch pedal before the clutch engages. The free play also cuts down on the wear the throw out bearing would get if it just sits against the clutch plate and spins all the time.
Typically the throw out bearing is attached to the fork or carrier by some sort of spring clip. Can you post a picture of the bearing, springs and fork? I would imagine the springs attach to the bearing and then back to the fork. When properly adjusted you should have a little bit of free play in the clutch pedal before the clutch engages. The free play also cuts down on the wear the throw out bearing would get if it just sits against the clutch plate and spins all the time.
bgott
Veteran Member
There might have been a couple of eyes that bolted under a couple of the front bearing retainer bolts. Do you have a trans diagram that shows inside the clutch housing from the other direction?
The only images I have are the parts diagram I posted and the picture of the fork in the housing I posted. The diagram shows the spring and bearing holder but not where the spring is supposed to attach inside the housing.
I haven't looked at it yet. My mechanic called me about the problem today and I will go in the morning. I was hoping that someone who had replaced a throwout bearing in a YM 1500 would read this and be able to tell me so I can tell my mechanic.
If not, we'll just have to figure out something to make it work. I'm sure we can't do any worse than the guy that secured it with the nylon tie the last time.
I haven't looked at it yet. My mechanic called me about the problem today and I will go in the morning. I was hoping that someone who had replaced a throwout bearing in a YM 1500 would read this and be able to tell me so I can tell my mechanic.
If not, we'll just have to figure out something to make it work. I'm sure we can't do any worse than the guy that secured it with the nylon tie the last time.
v8dave
Platinum Member
That parts diagram looks remarkably like an old Flathead V8 Ford clutch assembly. Some differences, the clutch lever shaft, #26, is above the input shaft instead of below it. I'm going to make a rash assumption your transmission/clutch is similar to an old Ford.
There is a key part missing from your diagram, the bearing retainer. This is probably part of the transmission parts diagram. The transmission input shaft bearing retainer is more that just a bearing holder. It also has a snout on it which extends out from the transmission and covers the input shaft for a bit (1 to 2 inches). The throw out bearing, #24, and throwout holder, #23, slide on this part of the retainer.
I've attached a diagram of a Ford transmission, the bearing cover is #7050. Notice the eylet on the flange (facing out).
If your transmission is anything like this, your bearing retainer is probably broken. I had a car once with the snout completely broken off, the throwout bearing was running on the input shaft--it almost worked.
Dry assemble the clutch on the input shaft. Is there a surface for #23 and #24 to run on? Is part #23 loose and running on the input shaft? If so the snout is broken off the retainer. And, since you can't find any eylets for the springs, they may be broken too.
Hopes this helps.
There is a key part missing from your diagram, the bearing retainer. This is probably part of the transmission parts diagram. The transmission input shaft bearing retainer is more that just a bearing holder. It also has a snout on it which extends out from the transmission and covers the input shaft for a bit (1 to 2 inches). The throw out bearing, #24, and throwout holder, #23, slide on this part of the retainer.
I've attached a diagram of a Ford transmission, the bearing cover is #7050. Notice the eylet on the flange (facing out).
If your transmission is anything like this, your bearing retainer is probably broken. I had a car once with the snout completely broken off, the throwout bearing was running on the input shaft--it almost worked.
Dry assemble the clutch on the input shaft. Is there a surface for #23 and #24 to run on? Is part #23 loose and running on the input shaft? If so the snout is broken off the retainer. And, since you can't find any eylets for the springs, they may be broken too.
Hopes this helps.
Attachments
Nasty135
Veteran Member
Ozarker, Could it be that parts #2 & 3 are some sort of retaining pin for springs? It's kind of hard to tell by diagram if the springs would be long enough to reach the pins, Also I don't see any other springs on diagram that would keep through-out bearing off the diaphram...
Assembly #22 thro-out and guide(retainer) are they held together and by what means,Does the thro-out have ears or eyelets?Could it be that the springs are for holding assembly#22 together on the fork? And if so ,is there is another spring (not pictured)for holding bearing off the diaphram ?
Assembly #22 thro-out and guide(retainer) are they held together and by what means,Does the thro-out have ears or eyelets?Could it be that the springs are for holding assembly#22 together on the fork? And if so ,is there is another spring (not pictured)for holding bearing off the diaphram ?
TheKid
Gold Member
In the drawing it looks like there is a hole in the main housing straight back from the bushing hole for part #4. It looks like it would be about the right distance for the spring length. Providing there is a hole on the other side in the same spot.
mark777
Veteran Member
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Ozarker,
I am trying to figure out if a repair we made recently is not unlike your problem. This customers model had serious clutch problems and we discovered two springs lying inside the housing.
We pulled the steering box/shaft to locate where the cast spring anchors were. Gone, nothing (small broken cast pieces about the size of a fingernail).
We actuated the t/o bearing travel, determined the distance necessary, and drilled two 1/4 inch holes on the outside of the case. Installed 1/4 20 bolts, anchored springs and operated clutch pedal.
It worked excellent, and by appearances looked factory.
I hope it's something similar as this was an E Z fix.
Mark
I am trying to figure out if a repair we made recently is not unlike your problem. This customers model had serious clutch problems and we discovered two springs lying inside the housing.
We pulled the steering box/shaft to locate where the cast spring anchors were. Gone, nothing (small broken cast pieces about the size of a fingernail).
We actuated the t/o bearing travel, determined the distance necessary, and drilled two 1/4 inch holes on the outside of the case. Installed 1/4 20 bolts, anchored springs and operated clutch pedal.
It worked excellent, and by appearances looked factory.
I hope it's something similar as this was an E Z fix.
Mark
Yes, that hole has a bolt in it holding the bracket that the dash and tank is bolted to. If I couldn't find out how the original was set up, my plan was to use that as an attaching point. It is in approximately the correct position for the spring but a little high.
I think Mark777 has solved the mystery for me and provided the solution both here and in a reply he made to me in another forum.
I think Mark777 has solved the mystery for me and provided the solution both here and in a reply he made to me in another forum.
Thanks for the reply both here and in the other forum Mark. I asked a question over there that I probably already know the answer to but I want to make sure. No need to answer in both forums.
Was the original cast tab located on the sides of the housing so that the springs pulled horizontal to the shaft or were they up high closer to the steering gear?
Of course I guess when I go clean all the old built up iol and dirt out of the housing tomorrow I will see where they were.
Thanks again. Your solution sounds like the perfect way to solve this problem.
Was the original cast tab located on the sides of the housing so that the springs pulled horizontal to the shaft or were they up high closer to the steering gear?
Of course I guess when I go clean all the old built up iol and dirt out of the housing tomorrow I will see where they were.
Thanks again. Your solution sounds like the perfect way to solve this problem.
mark777
Veteran Member
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Ozarrker,
We installed bolts horizontal with the shaft and t/o bearing travel. Sorry I dont have any pix, but it was a few inches below the machine surfaced hole where steering box mounts.
As the cast was very dence I used a 1/8th pilot bit first and followed with 1/4".
On this model it would seem one broke long before the last one let go, as there were stress ware marks on shaft from uneven pressure during travel.
Can't think of any reason why it won't work on your model.
Mark
We installed bolts horizontal with the shaft and t/o bearing travel. Sorry I dont have any pix, but it was a few inches below the machine surfaced hole where steering box mounts.
As the cast was very dence I used a 1/8th pilot bit first and followed with 1/4".
On this model it would seem one broke long before the last one let go, as there were stress ware marks on shaft from uneven pressure during travel.
Can't think of any reason why it won't work on your model.
Mark
mark777
Veteran Member
- Joined
- May 16, 2004
- Messages
- 1,300
- Location
- S.E Texas
- Tractor
- Ym1300d-1401D-1601D , 1610D & Massey Ferguson 1020
Cant find a decent picture, maybe too late, as I hope your problem is solved by now. If not here is one for reference.
This 1610 has the same pins as described in your parts blowup.
Mark
This 1610 has the same pins as described in your parts blowup.
Mark
Thanks again Mark. I printed out your solution and took it to my mechanic Friday. We discussed a few options then I turned the project over to him and went to work. Hopefully he will have it back together this week and he will go easy on me for all the extra labor.
It is times like this when I wish I had my shop built so I wouldn't have to pay someone else to do things that I could easily do myself. But I just didn't want to break the tractor in half on my gravel parking area behind the house.
It is times like this when I wish I had my shop built so I wouldn't have to pay someone else to do things that I could easily do myself. But I just didn't want to break the tractor in half on my gravel parking area behind the house.
