Help with 100 Acres

[River Hill]

I am in located in MD and in the process of purchasing approx 100 acres of farm land. Most of the land is currently soy beans and corn, but I plan on turning this into hay fields. I need to keep the fields no longer than 18" as I will be using the fields to run dogs in. Do you think cutting the fields when they hit 18" is too short for hay production? If so, I will just need to cut it and not worry about the hay.

If I can produce hay from these fields, what is the fastest equipment that can cut and bale without going overkill?

If I am just going to keep the fields cut, what do you suggest? I will have 3 ponds on the property, so they will need to be maintained as well.

This is all new to me, so I am here to learn.

I do know I want AC in the cab and I want some speed as I don't plan on spending forever doing this.

Yes I understand the importance of local dealer support, just looking for a place to start.

 

[jenkinsph]

If you can fit a large batwing mower and matching tractor that would cost upwards of $60,000. If you bale hay you could spend twice that by the time you consider some handling equipment. So cost is one issue also labor and help for this.

Real farming/agriculture as a business is very difficult to come out on and I suspect would take up more of your time than practical. A business performer would indicate how hard this is to come out on.

 

[adjusterr]

You didn't mention whether or not you needed the hay for your operation. If you don't need the hay, you might consider having a local farmer come in and hay-off the fields for whatever deal you can negotiate, sure beats buying more equipment.

 

[MikeInEburg]

I'd consider Alfalfa as it is the shortest hay around. As suggested earlier, having someone with the equipment cut and bale is a very practical solution. Good luck!
Mike

 

[smstonypoint]

A few other thoughts/questions.

Does MD have use-value assessment for property taxes? If so, you should check out what you have to do to qualify for agricultural use. If MD is anything like NC, your property taxes will be considerably lower if you qualify for ag. use. Renting out for ag. use may qualify.

Do you need the whole 100 acres for the dogs to run? If not, you could probably rent out a portion of the farm for row-crop production and maintain the balance for the dogs. This would reduce both your time and equipment requirements.

Regarding the height for hay, 18" would probably be on the low side for fescue, orchard grass, etc. but wouldn't be a problem for alfalfa.*

Steve

* Edit -- Keep in mind that alfalfa requires more management, time, and expense than many (most) other forages.

 

[MBDiagMan]

What kind of grass is it? Is money an issue or do you have a relatively unlimited budget. As mentioned earlier, a tractor big enough to run a round baler and with a cab & a/c will be quite expensive. Unless you can maintain and repair equipment yourself, you will have LOTS of money in a round baler and swather buying them new.

For your purposes, baling it will be far superior because you will be hauling the cuttings off of it as opposed to the dogs wading around in heavy cuttings.

If there are livestock operations in the area, the previous suggestion to get someone else to bale it on shares is a very good one.

Even with adequate size equipment, lots of time will be required to cut and bale 100 acres. Additionally, even new equipment can and does give trouble. My Grand Dad told me that baling hay is much like waging war. What he meant by this was, if equipment breaks, you can't just walk away and worry about it later. You have to repair the equipment, especially a rake or baler when hay is down, and get going again RIGHT THEN! Hay on the ground will not wait. This means that you will have to alot a good bit of time when hay time comes.

Also, you did not indicate square or round bales. If you go with square bales you will not need such a large tractor, but the labor required to haul it off the meadow and stack it in a hay barn is SIGNIFICANT or maybe more correctly, MAJOR!

My $0.02,

 

[Porkie]

I think that you are cutting off more than you can chew, since you seem to have no farming experience.

Not only do you have large initial expenses, you will have to learn how to safely and economically use this equipment and maintain it.

The value of "hay" fluctuates depending on the conditions: Good conditions (just the right amount of rain and sunshine) means everybody in the area will also have a good crop and hay prices will be way down. Bad conditions: No one has a good crop and hay prices will be up (no one has much) because farm animals still have to eat!

Some seasons, you can't give hay away but it still costs you a lot to produce it.

Most people have to think about amortizing the costs versus expense or is there a return on my(their) investments.(ROI)

If you sell your crop (hay) how much or how long will it take to pay for your investment in machinery?

Haying is very labor intensive even under the best conditions. How much is your time worth?

My very humble advice to you, is to hire a "sharecropper" to work your fields and watch everything that he does, as an educational tool for you.

My land was soy beans and corn primarily. I decided that I didn't want sharecroppers on my land all the time. (they tend to think that THEY own your land)

I decided to plant fescue, so I began the laborious task of bush hogging everything down to the lowest possible point. I then "rototilled" the entire area. Used my John Deere Gator to go on hundreds of "rock patrols" and once my field were "perfect" I used my 3 point seeder and uncountable bales of seeds, to seed the entire area. I then pulled a large rake behind my tractor to "bury" the seeds. I was rewarded with beautiful and very healthy fields of Fescue.

I sell fescue seeds when I can get someone to cultivate them. (remember: good crop=prices down)

I now have local farmers cut, rake and bale my hay crop--but only if they agree to buy every single bale. Some will and some won't. I don't enjoy having hundreds of large hay bales sitting in my fields, even into the next haying season.

I find local farmers and sharecroppers to be unreliable from one season to the next: If the market is flooded with hay or any crop, they aren't really interested in harvesting yours. The next season they are your best friend when prices are favorable and demand is up. Simple economics at work.

Almost everything I stated, doesn't apply if you have your own livestock to feed! Meat growers just about have to harvest their own feed or their profits go down the tube.

Make sure you buy "better" equipment than you need with high and proven quality and relability. Buy it right the FIRST time.

I hope this helps!

Sam

 

[TripleR]

jenkisph and Porkie make good points. We cash rent all of our tillable land and make more than if we farmed; been there done that.

Small farm operations are very difficult to manage financially doing traditional crops due to the limited income and high cost of equipment.

Good luck.

 

[Egon]

Not knowing your local dampness and drying conditions:

A swather with a crimper may be the fastest cut followed by a large round baler. The bales can be collected and stored at various free time occasions. Drying times are a big factor doing this and it may not work for you.

 

[Verticaltrx]

I'll reserve my comments/expertise on this matter until the OP at least responds to this thread. My guess is it will go the same way the 'tractor for 300ac' thread went....

 

[River Hill]

I would like to thank everyone for taking the time to answer my question. Boy do I have a great deal to learn. You guys have really opened my eyes.

At this point from the input I received I think it is best I just keep the grass knocked down the best I can and not rely on hay production or having someone harvest for me. I know guys who have tried to get guys in the past, but there were always issues when it when the farmer wasn't ready to harvest or the grass was too long.

So if you were going to try and maintain this property and keep the grass knocked down, what would be my options?

 

[Verticaltrx]

I would like to thank everyone for taking the time to answer my question. Boy do I have a great deal to learn. You guys have really opened my eyes.

At this point from the input I received I think it is best I just keep the grass knocked down the best I can and not rely on hay production or having someone harvest for me. I know guys who have tried to get guys in the past, but there were always issues when it when the farmer wasn't ready to harvest or the grass was too long.

So if you were going to try and maintain this property and keep the grass knocked down, what would be my options?

Your best option would be a 85-95 PTO hp tractor with a 15' Batwing bush hog. Depending on your budget 4wd, a loader and a cab are all nice things to add. As stated before, you'll be in the $60K range for all this, but you will be able to cover 7 or more acres pre hour (depending on conditions) and really get things done quick.

If you have a smaller budget, a 55-65 PTO hp tractor with a 8' or 10' bush hog would also work pretty well. For cutting larger acreage I like a pull type cutter over a 3pt hitch type. They seem to make neater corners and require less circling on the corners. You wouldn't get done as quick as with the larger setup, but this size tractor would also be more useful for general land maintenance tasks. Again, if its in your budget, definitely get 4wd, a loader and a cab (in that order of importance)


If you are looking for new equipment, you really can't go wrong with Deere or Kubota in this size tractor. Used there are many good options, again, Deere, Kubota, IH, Case-IH, Ford, Allis-Chalmers, etc. You just have to know what to look for in a good used tractor. As for a bush hog, Woods, Bush Hog, and Deere make some of the best IMO.

 

[River Hill]

Your best option would be a 85-95 PTO hp tractor with a 15' Batwing bush hog. Depending on your budget 4wd, a loader and a cab are all nice things to add. As stated before, you'll be in the $60K range for all this, but you will be able to cover 7 or more acres pre hour (depending on conditions) and really get things done quick.

If you have a smaller budget, a 55-65 PTO hp tractor with a 8' or 10' bush hog would also work pretty well. For cutting larger acreage I like a pull type cutter over a 3pt hitch type. They seem to make neater corners and require less circling on the corners. You wouldn't get done as quick as with the larger setup, but this size tractor would also be more useful for general land maintenance tasks. Again, if its in your budget, definitely get 4wd, a loader and a cab (in that order of importance)


If you are looking for new equipment, you really can't go wrong with Deere or Kubota in this size tractor. Used there are many good options, again, Deere, Kubota, IH, Case-IH, Ford, Allis-Chalmers, etc. You just have to know what to look for in a good used tractor. As for a bush hog, Woods, Bush Hog, and Deere make some of the best IMO.

Thanks for the suggestion. I am liking the idea of the 55-65 PTO HP tractor with a 10' Bush Hog. Since the fields are currently corn and soy bean, they will need some work. I will thinking about planting fescue and doing my best to keep the weeds out.

It would be good to have a tractor to do other jobs.

 

[MtnViewRanch]

River Hill, any chance that you would be willing to give us a price range that you are willing to shoot for? A lot more help can be given when we know what we have to work with.

 

[Duffster]

Some of you guys sure have short alfalfa.

 

[Verticaltrx]

Thanks for the suggestion. I am liking the idea of the 55-65 PTO HP tractor with a 10' Bush Hog. Since the fields are currently corn and soy bean, they will need some work. I will thinking about planting fescue and doing my best to keep the weeds out.

It would be good to have a tractor to do other jobs.

We have a JD 2550 (65 PTO hp) and a JD 1008 pull-type 10' bush hog, granted it's 1980's technology its still a good setup. I can do about 5.5ac per hour with it and 65hp is about enough to handle anything from hood high grass and weeds to heavy brush.

If you are looking at Kubota the M7040 would be a nice size, as would a 5075E or 5075M Deere.

 

[flusher]

I am in located in MD and in the process of purchasing approx 100 acres of farm land. Most of the land is currently soy beans and corn, but I plan on turning this into hay fields. I need to keep the fields no longer than 18" as I will be using the fields to run dogs in. Do you think cutting the fields when they hit 18" is too short for hay production? If so, I will just need to cut it and not worry about the hay.

If I can produce hay from these fields, what is the fastest equipment that can cut and bale without going overkill?

If I am just going to keep the fields cut, what do you suggest? I will have 3 ponds on the property, so they will need to be maintained as well.

This is all new to me, so I am here to learn.

I do know I want AC in the cab and I want some speed as I don't plan on spending forever doing this.

Yes I understand the importance of local dealer support, just looking for a place to start.

Haying--what's your equipment budget? Speed costs bucks--more speed = more bucks--- unless you're into pre-owned haying equipment to save $$$$ on your equipment investment.

For fast haying, you have several mower choices--disc mower, drum mower, self-propelled swather with 10-15 ft wide sicklebar head, various types of mower-conditioners. I've used small 7-ft wide sicklebars bought at auction and from neighbors that attach to the 3 pt hitch on my Mahindra 5525 (54 hp engine, 45 hp pto, 2WD, gear tranny) but they aren't considered to be very fast mowers ($150 to $550).

You'll need a hay rake to make suitable size windrows for your bale. Choices include a 10-ft wide side delivery bar rake, various types of wheel rakes. My rake is a 10-ft wide John Deere 350 bar rake, refurbished, $800.

Balers: small squares (two-twine, 50-60 lb bales; three-twine, 100-120 lb bales), round bales-various sizes from several hundred pounds to 1000+ lb. My baler is an old Massey Ferguson 124 2-twine small square baler ($2000)

You'll need some way to get the bales off the hayfield. There are various types of self-propelled bale stackers as well as bale accumulators/grapples that attach to your tractor's FEL. You can get used self-propelled bale stackers for $5-10K if you shop around. I build my own accumulator/bale squeeze that attaches to the FEL on the 5525 ($1500 materials, hydraulics, etc).

Hope this helps.

 

[TripleR]

I can't beat the advice given by Verticaltrx.

 

[jimmysisson]

Would the stubble be a problem for the dogs?
Jim

 

[rd_macgregor]

I'm not real clear on what you want the land to be like. Do you WANT grass 18" tall? Or, is 18" the max you'd want? If a shaggy-lawn type surface is good for your use, then several mowings a season with a brush cutter would probably do the trick.
About 100 ac of my 250 is hay land and a neighbouring dairy farmer cuts, bales and hauls away the hay every year. I don't charge him for it at all...my payback is that mother nature doesn't send trees into my fields and I don't have to spend time, energy and fuel to keep the fields cut.

If you could find a good, used utility tractor in the 65hp (plus or minus a bit) range and a wide, three-blade brush cutter, you'd be on your way...BUT it would still take you several full days to get all hundred acres cut.

BOB