Help Sizing Tractor

[Baby Grand]

Sounds like your MX track is essentially a road building project. For that, and for the size tractor that you are considering, I'd want a heavy box blade with the aforementioned hydraulic scarifier function plus top-n-tilt. So 3 hydraulic remotes, at least. You can add them your self, if you find a good, used tractor. They ain't cheap, but they will save you so much time and aggravation that they pay for themselves very quickly.

You want to be thinking:
Have I got the grade profile right?
How much di I need to cut from here to fill over there?
Will it shed water where I want it to?
Not how many turns of the turnbuckle to put the camber you want on a particular part of the course.

About shedding water - a backhoe attachment can be very handy if you need to put down culverts, etc.

 

[todd92]

Remember, I'm only maintaining the MX track with the tractor, so box blade to break up compacted dirt and smooth sections when they get too rough/rutted. FEL to touch up jump faces. Not really heavy dirt moving. I'm renting a D5 to build the track and the guy who built and maintains our club track is building mine. He knows drainage/erosion control etc, he really knows his stuff, built and maintained Raceway Park for years. I would never try to build a track with a tractor, it would take months. He'll have it done in 4-5 days.

Lot's of good stuff to think about in your posts.

 

[todd92]

Boggen are you saying HST or shuttle shift is best? Yes, there will be lots of back and forth. Orchard is 8 acres of peach and apple trees, 20 acres of sheep pasture.

 

[MtnViewRanch]

I've narrowed the search to 55-60 HP tractors with HST. I narrowed the search to (in no particular order), MF 1758, JD 4066R, Mahindra 2555, Kubota L6060, LS XR4155 and Kioti NX6010. I ruled out the JD and Kubota pretty quickly due to the utterly ridiculous price premium. The MF and Mahindra are surprisingly hard to find. and are slightly more expensive. The LS is vaporware right now, I suppose they are sitting in a warehouse waiting for the XR4000 series inventory to be depleted? So I've pretty much decided on the NX6010. My journey sounds exactly like a certain prolific TBN poster's, but I've done all of it so far from behind a keyboard, thanks to all of the reviews here.

Today I'm off to our club MX track, where I'll try the MF shuttle shift tractor to see if I absolutely want/need HST. I'm mostly set on it, but why not try one with gears on an actual MX track?

The last decision is cab/open. I was certain I didn't want a cab, but after reading all of your comments I think I actually do want one. No woods work for me, so the only concern was the orchard, in particular mowing under the branches. I've decided to get a zero turn mower to zip around the trees with (and mow the house yard and the fencelines). Any recommendation on ZTR's for rough terrain (ZTR's I'm finding to be a much bigger can of worms than tractors)?

Something else to have in mind are the type of rear remote valves that you get. You really would be able to make use of valves that have the float function. With the tractors that you have listed that you are considering MF has the option for sure and Mahindra may have it, I really don't know and sort of doubt it. The MF 1758 would be the tractor for me of the ones that you are down to.

Just something else to consider that most people never even think about that can make a HUGE difference with your work.

Good luck. :thumbsup:

 

[GManBart]

Boggen are you saying HST or shuttle shift is best? Yes, there will be lots of back and forth. Orchard is 8 acres of peach and apple trees, 20 acres of sheep pasture.

If there's a lot of back and forth, an HST setup will be the best. Power shuttle isn't far behind, but as mentioned before, there are times when you want/need to be steering with your left hand while operating the 3pt control with your right, but your left hand is working the shuttle lever. It's not a huge issue, but it is noticeable. The other thing I've noticed with a power shuttle compared with an HST setup is that when you let off the gas on a power shuttle, it keeps moving until you hit the brakes, where an HST setup slows pretty quickly once you let off the pedal. After a while you can time letting off the pedal with an HST such that you almost never use the brakes. I notice this most when backing up to things that you don't want to hit, or drop offs you don't want to drop off! It's not that you can't do it with a shuttle, but it's not as easy, and requires more hands/feet movement to get right.

 

[jenkinsph]

If there's a lot of back and forth, an HST setup will be the best. Power shuttle isn't far behind, but as mentioned before, there are times when you want/need to be steering with your left hand while operating the 3pt control with your right, but your left hand is working the shuttle lever. It's not a huge issue, but it is noticeable. The other thing I've noticed with a power shuttle compared with an HST setup is that when you let off the gas on a power shuttle, it keeps moving until you hit the brakes, where an HST setup slows pretty quickly once you let off the pedal. After a while you can time letting off the pedal with an HST such that you almost never use the brakes. I notice this most when backing up to things that you don't want to hit, or drop offs you don't want to drop off! It's not that you can't do it with a shuttle, but it's not as easy, and requires more hands/feet movement to get right.

I agree ^^^^, if you have much fel work to do using your feet to control direction frees up your arms to steer and operate the joystick or rock shaft lever. You can operate a shuttle and get good results but it isn't as convenient imo.

 

[todd92]

I didn't get to try the tractor. I decided I would ride 1st. After my 1st moto, a member, who is a former national pro, came over and told me he had never seen me ride better, I was smooth, fast, etc. Kiss of death. I've been very, very fortunate, haven't had a get off that required medical attention in 14 years. Of course, my luck ran out.

2nd moto, cross rutted the 80 ft triple and landed sideways. My elbow found a footpeg in the carnage. Needless to say, my day ended with a trip to an urgent care place. This morning, I feel like I stepped in front of a bus yesterday.

The track builder said get the hydro and cab. He was puzzled why I would even think about it.

 

[boggen]

Youch! funny bone hurt much? hope for some rest and healing of the elbow and all is good for ya.

 

[todd92]

Surprisingly, the elbow didn't/doesn't hurt at all. Shoulder, ribs and back are stiff, but OK. I didn't know I had gashed my elbow until I saw the blood stains on my pants. It was bleeding pretty good, then oddly just stopped by itself before I could even make it back to the truck. Go figure. Dr. was a smart ***, I had a gauze bandage on it and I told him I needed a bunch of stitches. He said, so you've determined what treatment is necessary? I said I wouldn't be here if I thought I could tape it back together with band-aids. His face when he pulled the gauze off was priceless.

 

[rutwad]

For tractor size, I found bigger is usually better assuming it physically fits where you need it to go. My M5040 4wd was overkill for the 84" finishing mower it was bought for. But I have since found other projects where the tractor came in very handy. The same about 4wd. My M5040 is, and if it takes 4wd to mow the grass then I shouldn't be mowing anyway. But for some unforeseen projects I have came up with, the 4wd is great!

Definitely go cab.

HST is awesome!! I had it on my last tractor, also used for mowing. My mom used it and was very accustomed to it. When she encountered a rough area, she simply slowed down by easing up on the F/R pedal. When I moved to the M5040 Shuttle Shift, she kept trying to reduce throttle in the rough areas which reduces PTO speed.

I think someone mentioned here about the HST vs. Shuttle Shift concerning it stopping without using the brakes. The HST does great at this. The Shuttle Shift is different than the Shuttle Shift on our backhoe. The backhoe can remain still with the lever engaged F or R, but the shuttle shift will move. It will bog the tractor down if you stop it.

Shuttle Shift on left side of steering wheel is an advantage to me. You will get used to making sure your left hand is on the left side of the steering wheel and lower a finger as needed to change direction of the lever. That would be much easier than trying to use the right hand to operate the F/R lever and 3 pt. hitch.

I haven't read about the tractor where someone mentioned "reversible PTO", but I don't think it would actually turn the PTO in the opposite direction. What I have seen on reversible PTO on JD is the PTO shaft is 540 on one end and 1000 on the other. You remove the snap-ring retaining the shaft, take the shaft out and insert the other end and replace the snap-ring.

I would also keep the Farmall H (I have one too!!). You're not going to get much for it, but it is handy if you get stuck or break down and need a tow back to the barn. Plus they ride great!

R1 tires? That is an agriculture tire that will give you the most traction but I wouldn't imagine your orchard being that muddy. I think the R4 tires would be easier on the ground but still provide adequate traction. The R4 will not ride quite as smooth as the R1 though.

 

[boggen]

*well humphs* my bad on notation of revisable PTO option. i could of swore, going to a 1 of the red tractor sites, they offered a "reverse direction for PTO" not a simply swap out for spline type / 540 to 1000 type doing. there was issues that came up along the lines of PHD (post hole diggers), and some power rakes, and snow blowers, and tillers even. of running then in opposite direction. to un-stuck a PHD and/or get a different finishing touch to the soil.

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as rutwad noted. the flick of finger on left to change direction i like power shuttle shift lever. i can operate go peddle with right foot, and then operate split rear brakes (left and right break pedals) with left foot. and then either backhoe or 3pt hitch with right hand.

i can also see how folks could like a HST style pedal. wither 1 peddle. *push down heal* to go forward, and then push with toes to go backwards. or a double pedle on right foot, 1 for forward, 1 for reverse. this letting you move your left hand in a bit more different directions on steering wheel.

every tractor manufacturer and even between there make/models offered, setups are a bit different. for how things are setup. everyone has different preferences, and some times ya work with what ya got. my general statement of some sort of hydrualic transmission. is just that HST or power shuttle. i like being able to drive backwards same speed i can drive forward. and not mess with a gear shifter or a clutch. and be able to adjust to a given speed (MPH) i think is best, with my foot for forward or reverse. it frees up my body (hands, feet) up to keep things moving, vs whipping feet / arms about trying to grab something to change something, while i keep tractor moving.

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other issue everyone is different heights / different arm / leg lengths. and having controls that fit you. and in easy access for you to control comfortably. while prices might be slightly different or a feature or two a little bit different, that sounds better and you want. if you are having a hard time seating down into tractor, and not able to easily reach peddles, steering wheel, and rear hyd remotes. your not going to like driving the tractor for long time spans.

for example i moan and complain about the old 1954 allis chalmers CA tractor. pure manual transmission, and constantly pushing in the clutch, my foot / leg goes numb after a while. if ya gotta hold your leg / knee / foot to deal with a single HST peddle. to go forward /backwards. it might get old rather fast.

some setups just do not play well between tennis shoes / hi-tops, vs almost knee high boots (work, winter, mud, water style boots).

some of the levers (3pt hitch, rear hyd remotes, FEL joystick/levers, 1-3 or 1-x gear selector) normally located all on the right hand side of tractor. you either end up bending over reaching for them. or elbowing yourself in the rib cage to get to them. pending on were you need your seat positioned. and for some shorter folks. twisting body around to get to some 3pt hitch / rear hyd remote controls.

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with above said. go to a few different dealers offering different brands make/model of tractors, and set down in them and test drive them. see if there is a "test pile" of dirt you can run FEL into.

see how it is operating levers and driving backwards or act if your looking down at some 3pt hitch on back. hopefully dealer might allow you hook up a 3pt hitch attachment. and physically use say a box blade or rear blade or something, and see how much you can see and make out from your seat. or if you are bending over backwards and looking further back behind you to see what is going on.

make yourself a little "hump" of dirt. and try to back right up on it and make a dead stop and then see if you can 1/4" to 1" your way down the little hump.

hit the left and right rear break peddles, and see how sharp of a turn you can make. with and without 4WD / MFWD engaged.

try to back drag with FEL, and see how much detail you can see through cab.

how much do you need to turn steering wheel from going straight, to turning max amount for left or right. and being able to hit say power shuttle shift lever, or needing to move your left hand again to keep turning sharper.

 

[rutwad]

boggen, you may be right. I don't know about those tractors.

 

[todd92]

I'm down to the final 2. I wrestled with the cab idea, but in the end I think open station is better for my use. I just won't be outside much in the cold or for long stretches in the highest heat.

The last 2 are THe Kioti NX5510 HST and the LS XR4155H. With loaders, 2 remotes and industrial tires, they both price out just over 27K cash. I can get a demo Kioti for 26K with 50 hours but full warranty. I figure 55HP is plenty for my needs. The Mahindra 2555 was 2K more and the MF 1754 Was 3.5K more. I saw nothing that would make the Mahindra worth more and I appreciate that there were a few things better about the MF, but not 3.5K worth IMO.

So flip a coin? Take the demo and save over a thousand? Decisions, decisions.

 

[GManBart]

I'm down to the final 2. I wrestled with the cab idea, but in the end I think open station is better for my use. I just won't be outside much in the cold or for long stretches in the highest heat.

The last 2 are THe Kioti NX5510 HST and the LS XR4155H. With loaders, 2 remotes and industrial tires, they both price out just over 27K cash. I can get a demo Kioti for 26K with 50 hours but full warranty. I figure 55HP is plenty for my needs. The Mahindra 2555 was 2K more and the MF 1754 Was 3.5K more. I saw nothing that would make the Mahindra worth more and I appreciate that there were a few things better about the MF, but not 3.5K worth IMO.

So flip a coin? Take the demo and save over a thousand? Decisions, decisions.

Those are two good machines. It really should come down to which one feels better to you.

I owned an LS that was great, but they still haven't changed their FEL to keep up with the competition as far as max lift height. The XR you're looking at maxes out at 96.3" where the Kioti is 108.3". That 12" doesn't sound like a lot until you're trying to load a small dump truck, a 30yd rolloff dumpster, or something similar. Also, since the Kiot lifts an extra 50lbs a foot higher, that means it's actually a fair bit more powerful. In other words, to the same height, the Kioti will lift more. That's a big factor for me...maybe not for you, but it's worth mentioning.

If the demo looks clean, I'd probably go that route.

 

[boggen]

goto manufacture website... and go through the "tractor builder" or what ever they call it. and look at various add-on's they offer.

many of the add-ons come in very handy.
--TNT (top and tilt) for 3pt hitch,
--larger alternator if needing an electrical cable winch, or wanting to run some larger brighter lights.
--see if there is an option for upper front and rear work lights. either on the ROPS or sun shade. they come in handy!
--extra rear hydraulic remotes / SVC
--third function remote for FEL
--most tractors come with basic 3pt hitch and may not come with the extra check chains / stay straps, sway bars/chains. you may need them.
--swinging draw bar (attached just below the PTO shaft)
--grill guard for front of machine if ya plan to do some heavy rotatory cutter work out in woods and like. and keep sticks and like from puncturing the radiator.

most of above can be a bit more "tractor specific" some of the stuff dealer is the actual folks that install the extra stuff.

some extra stuff that can be had 3rd party and installed DIY and/or possibly dealer installed....
--bucket hooks for FEL and/or backhoe bucket
--telescopic lower lift arms for 3pt hitch or pat's easy hitch or... some sort of quick hitch for 3pt hitch.

the misc extras above are small prices compared to overall tractor but can add up quickly.

 

[todd92]

Again, I want to thank you guys for the really, really good advice. I'm going to look at the demo tomorrow. Unfortunately, no one has any XR4100's in stock, though I've looked at the XR4000's and I understand the only real difference is the LS engine in the 4100.

 

[Poopdeck Pappy]

Make sure you're pricing the tractors with the same equipment. For example, if one of them has two sets of hydraulic remotes as standard equipment, be sure you price the other one with the same equipment.

And, FYI, two sets of hydraulic remotes would be the absolute minimum I would require. My next tractor will have three sets.

 

[todd92]

I hadn't studied the specs that closely on the loaders, the Kioti loader is substantially more capable. The Kioti tractor is also bigger in every dimension and a couple of hundred pounds heavier. Looks like my decision is getting easier.

As I said, both are equipped the same, loaders, 2 remotes, industrial tires.

 

[TJP89]

The NX is the top line fully optioned flagship Kioti tractor currently. Check to make sure the LS can match the standard features of the Kioti.

 

[GManBart]

I hadn't studied the specs that closely on the loaders, the Kioti loader is substantially more capable. The Kioti tractor is also bigger in every dimension and a couple of hundred pounds heavier. Looks like my decision is getting easier.

As I said, both are equipped the same, loaders, 2 remotes, industrial tires.

Not only that, but there are a couple of other things that would push the Kioti to the top (for me). One, the throttle linked to the HST pedal is very handy, and works nicely on the NX...it even saves you fuel because without it, it's easy to jump off the tractor without lowering the throttle because it'll only take a minute. Two, the rear 3pt control is extremely handy when hooking/unhooking implements.