Help needed finding a short Turnbuckle

[EddieWalker]

I've discovered an annoying problem with my grapple that will be a huge problem when I put my bucket back on. It's attached with a quick attach system that isn't designed for backwards presure.

When I have the grapple on and I'm using my backhoe to remove trees, I can pop the grapple off when pulling my tractor backwards with the backhoe. I tried holding it on with a ratcheting strap, but one of them broke.

This will be even worse with the bucket installed as I really like to smooth out my dirt by back dragging the bucket.

My solustion is to weld on a D ring to the Quick Attack and another to the grapple. Then I want to use a heavey duty Turnbuckle to tighten it all together. I feel that if I can find a big enough one, it will be plenty strong enough to hold it all together.

The problem is that I have ten inches to work with, and six inches would be better. The turnbuckles that I've found are all too long. WAY TOO LONG!!!!

The smallest are 6 inches, but that's just the center piece. When you add on the ends, it goes up at least four inches from there. The ten inch distance must includ the attachement points, so the overall length of the Turnbuckle should be under 8 inches.

Is there a source for something like this? It really doesn't need to tighten on both ends, but it does need to be able to tighten and hold allot of presure. My guess is 10,000 pounds, but I could be way off.

Any other thoughts or ideas?

Thank you,
Eddie

 

[john_bud]

The turnbuckle sounds like it's out. BUT, have you thought about the connectors for threaded rod? Some of those are pretty long and are grade 8.


I would think that you may be able to modify the QA to allow for back dragging with out adding something. Can you post up some pictures with arrows and words showing where the issue is? Maybe a smart guy like Rob or Larry can come up with a more elegant solution.

 

[EddieWalker]

John,

I have this picture that I put an "X" with a circle around it where I need to have one anchor point on the grapple. It's my only option due to whatever I do, it will have to work on the bucket too.

One thing that adds to this is that the Quick Attach has some play on where it hooks up left or right. It's very likely that it won't be perfectly centered.

One option for the other end will be to loop an eye bolt over the pin. The pin is 1 1/2 inches, so the inside of the eye bolt will have to be that big. I can lock it into position by welding a washer onto the end of the pin, but then I run into issues on how to attach it to the grapple so that I can take it off and on, plus tighten it up.

Eddie



I'm on the McMaster Carr website right now and the only turnbuckles that will fit are 3/8" and smaller.

 

[dirtworksequip]

Eddie, is there any way you could weld some chain or run some chain and secure the bucket and grapple with a ratchet type chain binder?

Sincerely, Dirt

 

[Willl]

Your pins are popping out on the bottom, aren't they ?

If I remember correctly, we had somebody here on TBN long time ago with the same problem.

I thought he swapped his pins around so the bevels was facing forward, but I could be wrong.

 

[Leejohn]

Is there enough stock so you can drill and pin it in place?

 

[smitty9266]

you need to look for the reason it is poping loose!! The quick attach has been used on skid steers and backhoes such as yous for years, and they don't pop off it is designed for pressure in all directions. there must be a miss alignment or to much play some where.

Jeff

 

[Egon]

If the turnbuckle only needs to turn on one end Eddie you could use ordinary threaded rod, a nut, some strap iron and your welder and you have whatever size you wish. [ build your own]

One turnbuckle on the sway adjust of the three point hitch on my tractor had the nut threads stripped out. I got the fellows to weld up a new threaded rod and bolt on the old one. It works but has to removed to shorten or lengthen it as I didn't bother to get a reverse thread nut.

 

[EddieWalker]

Dirt,

I looked at chain binders, but didn't find any that would fit. That is sort of what led me to the turnbuckle idea, which also doesn't seem to fit. LOL

Will,

We think alike. That was the first thing that I tried, and after the nightmare of putting it back together again, wish I hadn't. The bevel fits flush with the angle of the bottom bracket. When turned around, it doesn't even go down. Big mistake.

LeeJohn,

I've gone over it from every angle and just can't come up with a place that I can drill through both pieces to bolt it or pin it in place. I did consider welding on two or more "holes" that I could slide a pin through, sort of like a pin on a hinge used for a house door, but I come back to the issue of having to align the attachment with the quick attach perfectly every time. It's one of those simple ideas that gets very complicated the more I consider it.

smitty,

You're right about the use on skid steers, but I don't think this has been done very often on a full sized loader backoe. From what I've seen on skid steers, I might not have any problems back dragging with the bucket on since skid steers seem to do this all the time. Or I might since my tractor is so much larger and heavier. I don't know how much this factors into it, but that might be the reason quick attach's are not used on full sized equipment. The stuff that I have seen is different, but I haven't seen enough to know how it's done.

The problem is when I'm using the backhoe. The front bucket, or in this case, the grapple is down and supporting the front end of the tractor. All that weight is on the grapple, which shouldn't be a problem, it's plenty strong enough for this. But then when the backhoe catches on something, like a root, and pulls the tractor backwards, the quick attach pops off. It's only happened twice, but now I'm extra careful to avoid this by not having the grapple all the way down. It's a terrible way to use the backoe, and not something that I plan to live with.

Egon,

McMaster Carr has Eye Bolts with 1 1/2 inch openings in the eye. The threaded end would work similar to what you are describing and where I'm at right now in my thinking. Where I'm hitting the wall is how to create a bracket or link to attach the threaded end to the grapple in such a way that I can take it on and off, tighten it up and make it secure.

Thank you everyone for your help and advice,
Eddie

 

[jmc]

Eddie,

I may not fully understand your problem but with that in mind...

The first thing I would look at is the toggle mechanism that holds the pins down in the lower holes of the attachments. I think they interposition some coil springs in there to make the mechanism more forgiving of the tolerances among attachments. Those springs may be softer than you need and you could add some shims to pre-compress them?

Another thought is to weld on a piece around the lower QA holes to effectively thicken the steel that the pins have to "jump" to escape. A secondary benefit to this is that it will put the pin stress, during pulling, on a thicker part of the pin's taper, possibly your next problem.

In the meantime, have you tried rolling your attachment forward before supporting the front of the TLB, just to change the direction of the pulling force relative to the pin?

John

 

[jmarotz]

Eddie,
This may work for you, 7.25 inches screwed in but threaded end could be cut off 3/8", the treaded rod is 5/8" diameter.
Email at jmarotz@mac.com. Make you a good deal.

 

[wushaw]

Eddie; does the arms pop up also when it comes disconnected?

You could add some plates and use pins, although the plates would need to be added to the bucket also.

 

[MtnViewRanch]

smitty,

You're right about the use on skid steers, but I don't think this has been done very often on a full sized loader backoe. From what I've seen on skid steers, I might not have any problems back dragging with the bucket on since skid steers seem to do this all the time. Or I might since my tractor is so much larger and heavier. I don't know how much this factors into it, but that might be the reason quick attach's are not used on full sized equipment. The stuff that I have seen is different, but I haven't seen enough to know how it's done.

Eddie

Eddie, weight should not be a factor if the quick attach is designed properly. Although my Mahindra is not as heavy as your 555, it is over 12,000 lbs and I have no problems with my QA and there are other tractors that are as heavy or heaver than yours that have QA and do not have their buckets coming off. Not to say that your fix won't get you by, but it sounds like there are other problems with your QA.

Good luck

 

[EddieWalker]

Brian,

You might be right, I don't know enough about these things to say for sure one way or another. It appears that I have a very solid connection and I can't find any sort of movement in it. The pin goes into the hole real tight and seems to be very solid.

Do you have a backhoe on your tractor?

I'm thinking that the weight issue is from lifting the front end of the tractor off of the ground when using the backhoe. On my tractor, all the wheels are supposed to be off of the ground. I know that some of the CUT's recomend having the tires touching the ground when using the backhoe, so this might be where the difference happens.

The design of the QA puts all the strength on the top part and the pin is the week link. With 14,000 pounds in the air, I think I'm over the edge on what it was designed for. Then when I start pulling the tractor around with the hoe stick while taking out trees, I'm adding to that stress of the pin until it pops out.

I looked at a wheel loader yesterday at a gravel yard that has a removable bucket and a set of forks sitting there. The design is different in that the top park hooks over a bar and the bottom part has pins. This would eliminate my problem, but how to do this and still have the QA function is a mystery to me.

I'm seriously thinking about making my own turnbuckle. Nothing else seems to work in such a way that I can take it off and install it fairly easily. Keeping the turnbuckle tight is my next issue, but that might be just one of those things that I have to deal with.

Thanks,
Eddie

 

[tommu56]

Eddie
Aroura makes rod ends left and right hand thereaded Commercial Industrial Bearings - Inch Rod End Bearings

you would need a stud with left and right hand theread for in between them we used these for adjustable linkages

tom

 

[john_bud]

Eddie,

I'm still missing something here. WOuld ou be so kind as to post some more pics? I would like to see the back of the QA plate on the grapple and the mating fixture on the tractor.

Have you contacted the company you bought the grapple and QA from?

jb

 

[3RRL]

Eddie,
I'm in agreement with the crowd that thinks your quick attach might not be working perfectly.
From what you describe, when pushing down on the grapple to lift up the tractor or move it, the grapple or quick attach must have some play or movement left in it to allow it to jump off the connection. In other words, the latches are not seating the connection 100%. If I were you, I check to see where that play is. Perhaps the locking bars are not pushing the quick attach properly 100% into position to keep it captured. In fact, unless some steel got bent, I would bet that is the case.

Mount the grapple to see how it is locked in the QA. Mark the grapple and QA with chalk or something so you can see if it shifts. Then push down to see where the movement is occurring. There might be an adjustment on the latch bars to shove it into position more? It's a sort of cam lock, right? I'm not familiar exactly how your QA latches on. But if it's mechanical, someone could surely spot what's happening.

I'd look for the answer there ... how to make it (more) captured so it doesn't move up and jump out by adding some steel if there is no adjustment. I know you have some photos posted on the other threads, but they would come in handy here like John says. Try that suggestion to determine where the movement occurs which allows the jump.

 

[AlanB]

I am with what the others are saying as well Eddie.

If it is latching properly, there is no way that thing should come off.

My bet, you are dealing with a both ends tolerance problem. As in your quick attach is at the minimum and the bucket mount is at the maximum tolerance, and when put together they dont play well.

If I remeber right, you have the grapple, and a plate for your bucket, I would measure those, and then meausure my QA, then measure a similar QA on a big Skid (rental house)

I am betting it needs to be rectified with some additional shims / plates on something, my first guess would be to add a piece of steel under the top mount of the grapple angle piece that catches the QA.

Does it disconnect with both the bucket and the grapple?

If you have to fiddle with a turnbuckle etc. it sure looses some of the QA shine.

 

[MtnViewRanch]

Brian,

Do you have a backhoe on your tractor?

Thanks,
Eddie

No, no backhoe on the Mahindra, I have a Case 580E extendahoe. So I know about having the tractor up in the air. Can you get some pics for us so that maybe one or some of us might be able to help you out? You know what is said, A picture is worth a thousand words. A few pics might make the difference.

 

[EddieWalker]

Here's a few more pictures of the QA. One thing that might add to my problem is the bracket that I created to make it work with my loader. I don't know, but I agree with everyone that this shouldn't be happening, or at least it doesn't happen in other applications.

I can't see anything that is wrong with the attachment or why it's coming apart. I can only guess it's a combination of things. Too much HP/Hydraulic power. Too much weight, and the design of the bracket.

Eddie