HELP! Need advice on what to buy

[Tree Farmer Steve]

First, thank you for helping. Second, I am complete novice to compact tractors. I have operated equipment but not used a compact tractor in a residential type environment.

I recently bought a 15 acre Fir Tree farm with intent of pulling 1 acre for a home in the future. My property has been logged repeatedly for decades so there are a lot of old, rotten and rotting logs scattered throughout that I need to move. I'm looking for a compact tractor that can move the logs as well as do road creation/maintenance, snow removal, field mowing, material moving and general land maintenance. I plan to purchase a grapple of some sort for shrub clreaing and moving as well.

I originally planned to purchase a Kubota L2501 but I am concerned about the HP and weight of the tractor not being adequate for the size of logs and old fallen trees I need to move. I thought moving up to the L3901 may be the better choice but I don't know if the additional HP will make that much difference. Am I wrong?

I also saw an LS RX4140 that had 8 hours and was on sale at a price point less than a new L3901. I don't know much about the LS machines as most of my research was comparing Kubota to JD. Clearly the LS is much larger, heavier and more powerful but I'm concerned about quality and reliability.

Any advice, guidance, opinions will be very much appreciated.

Thank you.

 

[jeff9366]

Tree Farmer Steve

I recently bought a 15 acre Fir Tree farm with intent of pulling 1 acre for a home in the future. My property has been logged repeatedly so there are a lot of old, rotten and rotting logs scattered that I need to move. I'm looking for a compact tractor that can move logs as well as road creation/maintenance, snow removal, field mowing, material moving and general land maintenance.

Firs are BIG in my PNW experience. Is your land all flat or do you have hills?

Your can tow pretty large tree trunk sections behind a moderate weight tractor but they get dirty, which will dull a saw chain in less than one minute. To tow, you use chains between the tree section and the tractor's rear/center drawbar or a cross drawbar mounted on the Three Point Hitch. If all you need to do is move and burn, a moderate weight tractor may suffice.

You can transport log sections above ground using Three Point Hitch mounted Pallet Forks. Three Point Hitch always has more lift capacity than FEL but loads can only be lifted around 12" high. The angle of attack of forks is adjustable with Three Point Hitch Top Link. Rotted, disintegrating logs may not be sufficiently supported by two forks.

If you want to carry clean log sections utilizing the FEL you need a good sized tractor, at least 4,000 pounds, bare tractor. Tractor FELs (Front End Loaders) have a lift capacity proportional to tractor weight. Generally there is one FEL sized to each tractor model; sometimes a second FEL with one increment greater lift capacity as a second option. A 4,000 pound tractor (bare weight) will have a lift capacity of 1,750 pounds to 2,300 pounds.
However, you do not want to use a tractor FEL at max on a regular basis or reliability will suffer. I keep my everyday FEL loads are 66% of max, so real life lifting capacity is 1,150 pounds to 1,500 pounds. To me, this would be reasonable for lifting/transporting Fir sections over flat ground.

Tractors have small front wheels and large rear wheels. Non-symmetrical wheels front to back are one factor producing power in Three Point Hitch tasks, such as plowing soil and towing loads. However, these non-symmetrical wheels also make tractors unstable. Instability increases with loads on the FEL. Instability increases on sloped ground. You never want to experience a tractor rollover.

In order to carry 1,150 pound to 1,500 pound loads with the FEL you will need COUNTERBALANCE mounted on the Three Point Hitch of around 800 pounds to keep the rear wheels in contact with the ground. In order to carry a max lift of 1,750 pounds to 2,300 pounds, you will need 1,000 pounds to 1,200 pounds mounted on the Three Point Hitch. COUNTERBALANCE weight mounted on the Three Point Hitch is cantilevered behind the rear axle. Three Point Hitch COUNTERBALANCE relieves stress on the front axle, front axle bearings, front tires and power steering.

So, your next step should be to calculate weight of potential FEL loads you may wish to move.


I originally planned to purchase a Kubota L2501 but I am concerned about the HP and weight of the tractor not being adequate for the size of logs and old fallen trees I need to move. I thought moving up to the L3901 may be the better choice but I don't know if the additional HP will make that much difference. Am I wrong?

Tractor horsepower is much less important than tractor weight.

L2501 has a bare tractor weight of 2,600 pounds. LA525 loader has a lift capacity of 1,150 max, around 800 pounds for everyday loads. This is a really nice tractor for residential use. It will fit in an average garage with ROPS folded.

Three Point Hitch lift max capacity of L2501 is around 1,700 pounds, everyday work capacity 1,300 pounds, less weight of the Pallet Forks. (A little more everyday lift on the 3-Pt. because it is less subject to stress and carries loads low-to-the-ground.)
3-PT PALLET FORKS: three point hitch pallet forks - Google Search

A very nice tractor, marginal for moving heavy tree sections safely. Just enough for road maintenance, snow removal, field mowing (five foot rotary cutter) material moving and general land maintenance on fifteen acres.

4,000 pound tractors in Kubota's lineup are the MX series and L4060/L4760/L5060 and L6060 'Grand L' series, all utilizing a single, heavy, tractor chassis.
https://www.kubotausa.com/products/tractors/economy-utility/mx


I also saw an LS (RX)4140 that had 8 hours and was on sale at a price point less than a new L3901. I don't know much about the LS machines as most of my research was comparing Kubota to JD. Clearly the LS is much larger, heavier and more powerful but I'm concerned about quality and reliability.

LS XR4140: XR414H-4HP | LS Tractor

XR4140 is right at 4,000 pounds, bare tractor, the weight you need to operate safely.

Korean tractors are a fast growing segment of the tractor category, off a small base. LS and Kioti are the leading Korean tractor brands. LS is a well regarded tractor brand on this site.

How close is the LS dealer to your property?
All new tractors have some bugs which need to be worked out. So you probably want to purchase from a dealer reasonably close to your land.

Tractor reliability is a function of the prudence and experience of the tractor operator, operationally and relative to maintenance.


I am complete novice to compact tractors. I have operated equipment but not used a compact tractor in a residential type environment.

Operating tractors on sloping ground requires a slightly different tractor setup and great caution on the part of the operator.

>Heavy tractors are more stable than light tractors. Heavy tractors have wider wheel/tire stance and larger wheels/tires.
>"Loading"/filling/ballasting the rear tires 3/4 full with liquid lowers the center of gravity of the tractor, increasing stability.
>Set the rear wheels as wide as possible when wheels installed on chassis.
>Four wheel drive is essential on slopes, otherwise braking is inadequate.


Every tractor brand offers equipment in the 2,500 to 3,000 pound category.
Every tractor brand offers equipment in the 3,500 to 4,500 pound category.


MORE: http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...386705-kubota-l3560-tractor-la805-loader.html

 

[Tractorable]

Great advice by Jeff as usual.

What's the budget for the tractor? New or used?

 

[motownbrowne]

I'm with Jeff on this one. I'd look at the MX series of Kubotas. A grand L would be nicer, but substantially more moola. My MX has been a great tractor. I've found a few logs the loader couldn't lift, but they're usually just a couple minutes with the chainsaw away from being more manageable. With loaded rear tires, a heavy implement on the back, and the rears set at max width, it's a very stable feeling tractor

Perhaps this is your plan, but even with the heavier tractor, I think you're going to be better served to bring in a dozer for a day or two to clear your building site and remove stumps. Stump removal is pretty hard on a tractor.

 

[Tractorable]

A Kubota MX4800 is about the same cost as a L4701, maybe a little more, has a stronger loader, and is in the weight range you'll need to move those big logs and do some dirt work.

Agree that the site prep for your house should be done by construction equipment.

 

[Citydude]

Welcome to TBN Steve! Jeff pretty much nailed the capabilities of the tractor size your looking at. I have 23 acres of ponderosa pine and aspen that are on slopes. Actually, there are only 3 areas totaling 4 acres that are flat enough to walk upright on. The place was neglected for years before we bought it with standing dead and dead falls and overgrown small growth ponderosa that needs thinning.

I have an L2501 with loaded rear ag tires set to the widest setting with spacers for stability and a good seatbelt. My budget put me in the L series. I didn't need the more horsepower such as the 3901 because I don't really need to run anything off the PTO with the exception of my skidding winch that requires only 17 horses to run.

A larger framed tractor would add more lifting power for my grapple and pulling weight for logs that I winch and then skid to one of the flat spots for processing. As Jeff mentioned, weight is your friend. I am pleased with the performance of the 2501 however a larger frame would decrease the amount of trips I take while skidding, manage larger logs with the grapple and add more stability on the slopes.

 

[Rmart30]

A Kubota MX4800 is about the same cost as a L4701, maybe a little more, has a stronger loader, and is in the weight range you'll need to move those big logs and do some dirt work.

Agree that the site prep for your house should be done by construction equipment.

Id agree with that. A D3 rented for a week will do more than a tractor can in months.

 

[ArmyDoc]

Living on a forestry parcel, and having started with a 45hp tractor, I'm going to go a different direction. I think you should consider a compact track loader.
Tractors are better for dealing with fields. CTLs are better for Forested properties. Both are flexible enough to overlap jobs, but that's where their strengths lie.
A CTL can run a 6-7ft brush cutter up front which will be big enough for 15 acres. A CTL is smaller and more mobile to get between trees. They can handle a grapple, stump grinder and other tools for dealing with trees better than a tractor. They can handle a bucket and other land moving equipment for handling your roads. Once you have your land cleared, you can always sell it and get a tractor, but I bet you don't.

 

[Tree Farmer Steve]

Jeff,

Thank you so much for all of the valuable information. It is great to see a forum with grown ups actually there to help one another.

First question you asked was with regard to hills, yes my property has some slopes. One or two are quite severe. Thank you for the advice on FEL capacity and tractor weight. Because PTO power is not a major concern for me (I don't have fields to mow) I've been told by friends the same thing you mention, weight is more important than power. Also, thank you for the information on the LS. I really was only comparing Kubota and JD but I was told by a friend that LS tractors are fair quality for the cost. The biggest reason I am considering the LS is that I can get a much larger and heaver tractor for around the same cost as the Kubota.

Also, everyone say's to go with Hydrostatic for hilly terrain but I like the shuttle idea of the LS and being able to just put in a gear and maintain a consistent speed. However, not having any experience actually using either types, which would you recommend for a general purpose tractor? I don't plan to use this piece of equipment for any home/building site clearing or excavation. I will rent an excavator or dozer for this.

Again, thank you very much for the help and advice Jeff.

 

[Tree Farmer Steve]

The one LS is used with 8 hours on it. The dealer let a local horse arena use it to rake. Otherwise I'm comparing to new Kubotas.

 

[houstonscott]

First, thank you for helping. Second, I am complete novice to compact tractors. I have operated equipment but not used a compact tractor in a residential type environment. I recently bought a 15 acre Fir Tree farm with intent of pulling 1 acre for a home in the future. My property has been logged repeatedly for decades so there are a lot of old, rotten and rotting logs scattered throughout that I need to move. I'm looking for a compact tractor that can move the logs as well as do road creation/maintenance, snow removal, field mowing, material moving and general land maintenance. I plan to purchase a grapple of some sort for shrub clreaing and moving as well. I originally planned to purchase a Kubota L2501 but I am concerned about the HP and weight of the tractor not being adequate for the size of logs and old fallen trees I need to move. I thought moving up to the L3901 may be the better choice but I don't know if the additional HP will make that much difference. Am I wrong? I also saw an LS RX4140 that had 8 hours and was on sale at a price point less than a new L3901. I don't know much about the LS machines as most of my research was comparing Kubota to JD. Clearly the LS is much larger, heavier and more powerful but I'm concerned about quality and reliability. Any advice, guidance, opinions will be very much appreciated. Thank you.

I bought an LS in 2011, no issues at all, you won't be sorry.

 

[Tree Farmer Steve]

I have not considered a CTL. I will look into this and see if they seem to fit me.

 

[newbury]

<snip> The biggest reason I am considering the LS is that I can get a much larger and heaver tractor for around the same cost as the Kubota.

Also, everyone say's to go with Hydrostatic for hilly terrain but I like the shuttle idea of the LS and being able to just put in a gear and maintain a consistent speed. However, not having any experience actually using either types, which would you recommend for a general purpose tractor? I don't plan to use this piece of equipment for any home/building site clearing or excavation. I will rent an excavator or dozer for this.

Again, thank you very much for the help and advice Jeff.

Unless you plan on doing a lot of "set it and forget it" work, like haying, bush hogging where you don't have to switch gears, tilling large fields etc. get HST.
It reads like your primary use will be woodlot cleanup which requires a lot of shifting.
But we still need to know more about budget.
For what you presently plan on doing

road creation/maintenance, snow removal, field mowing, material moving and general land maintenance.

you require attachments which require $$$
A quick list of attachments other than FEL and bucket:
Box blade - $1K
Grapple - $1K to $3K
Snow plow or BLOWER - $1k to $6K
Rotary cutter $1K to $2K
Pallet Forks $1K
maybe a rake, trailer, PHD (post hole digger).
And most of these "depend on" the size of the tractor, bigger tractor, bigger more expensive tools.

I've more money tied up in attachments than tractors.

I went the used tractor route which left a lot of money for attachments.

 

[jeff9366]

HST for work on hills.

HST if anyone other than yourself will operate the tractor.

HST for best resale......someday.


What is the distance to your LS dealer?

 

[ArmyDoc]

I have not considered a CTL. I will look into this and see if they seem to fit me.

This is the one I am looking at. JCB Teleskid | Teleskid Loader| Teleskid Skid Steer
I like having one arm rather than two because it improves visibility and because it allows side entry rather than through the arms.

xfaxman strongly recommends a telehandler such as the bobcat versahandlers. He says he's gotten rid of his tractors... Telehandlers have some of the same benefits as a CTL, but may not have as high output hydraulics, and are not quite as much maneuverability as a CTL (though much more so than a tractor).

The other machine I'm looking at is a cross between the a telehandler and a tractor, called the merlo multifarmer.

Merlo 3.9 Multifarmer - YouTube

But I don't have prices on them yet, and they aren't as common on the used market here as they are in canada. If I can find one I can afford, it will be the best of both worlds for me.

 

[Tree Farmer Steve]

Jeff, thanks again. The LS dealer is actually closer to my propert (10 miles) than the Kubota (20 miles) but it's so close it's really a toss up.

 

[Tree Farmer Steve]

My budget is really as low as I can get away with. I realize you get what you pay for and quality in anything costs money but two main concerns I have are buying a tractor too small and spending too much $ on a tractor I don't need.

I had my Kubota dealer include a grapple and a box scraper in the quote so that I could clear fallen logs and brush with the grapple and create/maintain my drive way and the existing skid road with the box scraper. Total for the attachments and the L2501 with loader was right at $21k with the current Kubota incentives. Of course there is the 0% financing as well. This number is very attractive and if this tractor will serve 90% of my needs, is it better to just rent a larger tool for a couple days to clear the really big logs/boulders as oppose to buying a bigger tractor that I won't "need" when it's time to just maintain my property?

Per Jeff's recommendation and his clear experience, I've made the call to Hydro for sure. This means the LS I was looking at wont work. This was an interesting option because it's priced at $24K because it has 8 hours. Now that I know I'm going Hydro, the LS XR4140 is somewhere around $32K. Much more than the Kubota but also much more tractor.

The majority of what I'll be doing is brush clearing, log dragging, snow moving and road maintenance. Will the 2501 with a toothed box scraper be able to rip through small roots? I mean roots from small 5-10 year old fir trees?

 

[Tree Farmer Steve]

I took delivery of my new MX4800 a few weeks back and am very happy with the machine. I went with a woods rotary cutter, woods box blade and a claw grapple and couldnt be happier with my implement choices. Thank you all for the help!

 

[houstonscott]

Find the lowest hour tier three Kubota you find in the HP rating you need.

 

[cdaigle430]

I think the best bet is to just focus on this one project first by renting and excavator with a thumb. Worked very well for my dad and I. Then for the rest maybe a tractor with a grapple, loader? After my dad was done he bought a Kioti with those attachments and is very happy. I think it was a 36HP?

Tree Farmer Steve

I recently bought a 15 acre Fir Tree farm with intent of pulling 1 acre for a home in the future. My property has been logged repeatedly so there are a lot of old, rotten and rotting logs scattered that I need to move. I'm looking for a compact tractor that can move logs as well as road creation/maintenance, snow removal, field mowing, material moving and general land maintenance